| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:48 - Jan 18 with 2587 views | Gwyn737 |
Prof, what’s the difference in reporting an ‘adverse’ effect and expected side effect?
I had the jab expecting to have a sore arm and flu like symptoms afterwards. Would these been seen scientifically (and reportable) as ‘adverse’ effects? |  | |  |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:56 - Jan 18 with 2583 views | Professor |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:48 - Jan 18 by Gwyn737 |
Prof, what’s the difference in reporting an ‘adverse’ effect and expected side effect?
I had the jab expecting to have a sore arm and flu like symptoms afterwards. Would these been seen scientifically (and reportable) as ‘adverse’ effects? |
Well-you should expect a sore arm and perhaps a mild 'flu-like" condition for a few days. Normally these have been unreported, as most sensible folk understand this.
Of course for COVID this has gone out the window. In the US events (where this study was done) are self-reported to the VAERS system. This is where the dribbling loons have got the 'data' of high levels of adverse effects as anything from soreness at the injection site, to the real but very rare serious adverse events.
The UK system is the MHRA yellow card-and again there has been a lot of reporting of what are essentially not much.
The problem is of course reporting of minor and expected issues has muddied the waters to understand any real adverse reactions and act upon them. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:14 - Jan 18 with 2558 views | Gwyn737 |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:56 - Jan 18 by Professor |
Well-you should expect a sore arm and perhaps a mild 'flu-like" condition for a few days. Normally these have been unreported, as most sensible folk understand this.
Of course for COVID this has gone out the window. In the US events (where this study was done) are self-reported to the VAERS system. This is where the dribbling loons have got the 'data' of high levels of adverse effects as anything from soreness at the injection site, to the real but very rare serious adverse events.
The UK system is the MHRA yellow card-and again there has been a lot of reporting of what are essentially not much.
The problem is of course reporting of minor and expected issues has muddied the waters to understand any real adverse reactions and act upon them. |
I assumed that the data was skewed, but I didn’t know if it was daft people reporting sore arms, or the real nutters reporting the jab turned them into the Hulk. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:32 - Jan 18 with 2530 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:56 - Jan 18 by Professor |
Well-you should expect a sore arm and perhaps a mild 'flu-like" condition for a few days. Normally these have been unreported, as most sensible folk understand this.
Of course for COVID this has gone out the window. In the US events (where this study was done) are self-reported to the VAERS system. This is where the dribbling loons have got the 'data' of high levels of adverse effects as anything from soreness at the injection site, to the real but very rare serious adverse events.
The UK system is the MHRA yellow card-and again there has been a lot of reporting of what are essentially not much.
The problem is of course reporting of minor and expected issues has muddied the waters to understand any real adverse reactions and act upon them. |
""Well-you should expect a sore arm and perhaps a mild 'flu-like" condition for a few days. Normally these have been unreported, as most sensible folk understand this"
Weasel words, if he really had a sore arm he is quite within his rights to report it as an adverse effect, whether it is expected or not.I
So are you going to suggest that the 20,000 dead people imagined it?
Did those who died during the very first Pfizer trial also imagine that they died as well.
Are you suggesting all those that Pfizer reported died during the first two months of rollout also imagined it.
I doubt you have even bothered to look at the actual numbers of serious adverse events reported in both the US and the EU.
As for branding concerned citizens "dribbling loons" that is an absolute insult, but typical of you. [Post edited 18 Jan 2022 18:46]
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:40 - Jan 18 with 2531 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 17:48 - Jan 18 by Gwyn737 |
Prof, what’s the difference in reporting an ‘adverse’ effect and expected side effect?
I had the jab expecting to have a sore arm and flu like symptoms afterwards. Would these been seen scientifically (and reportable) as ‘adverse’ effects? |
I was absolutely fine after the first two jabs, a bit of a sore arm but that was it, Gwyn... but the booster? God! I was awful for days. Splitting headaches, tight chest, heavy-limbed - just awful.
The first two jobs were AZ; the booster, Moderna. My question for those like the Prof who have a far better understanding than myself is was the reaction down to the mix-and-match nature of the three inoculations? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:45 - Jan 18 with 2510 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:40 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I was absolutely fine after the first two jabs, a bit of a sore arm but that was it, Gwyn... but the booster? God! I was awful for days. Splitting headaches, tight chest, heavy-limbed - just awful.
The first two jobs were AZ; the booster, Moderna. My question for those like the Prof who have a far better understanding than myself is was the reaction down to the mix-and-match nature of the three inoculations? |
The Moderna vaccine contains a far higher dose of mRNA than the Pfizer one. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:46 - Jan 18 with 2517 views | Gwyn737 |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:40 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I was absolutely fine after the first two jabs, a bit of a sore arm but that was it, Gwyn... but the booster? God! I was awful for days. Splitting headaches, tight chest, heavy-limbed - just awful.
The first two jobs were AZ; the booster, Moderna. My question for those like the Prof who have a far better understanding than myself is was the reaction down to the mix-and-match nature of the three inoculations? |
I was pretty much the opposite, Loh.
Very rough for 48 hours after the first, slight sore arm only after the second and nowt at all after the booster.
AZ for first 2 Pfizer booster.
The question i was alluding to was because I was expecting to be ill with well known side effects, does it count as an adverse reaction? [Post edited 18 Jan 2022 18:47]
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:46 - Jan 18 with 2515 views | max936 |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:40 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I was absolutely fine after the first two jabs, a bit of a sore arm but that was it, Gwyn... but the booster? God! I was awful for days. Splitting headaches, tight chest, heavy-limbed - just awful.
The first two jobs were AZ; the booster, Moderna. My question for those like the Prof who have a far better understanding than myself is was the reaction down to the mix-and-match nature of the three inoculations? |
I had my booster on the Friday, was rough as toast on the Tuesday LFT was positive, had PCR on Wednesday that came back positive on Christmas Eve  |  |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:54 - Jan 18 with 2493 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:46 - Jan 18 by max936 |
I had my booster on the Friday, was rough as toast on the Tuesday LFT was positive, had PCR on Wednesday that came back positive on Christmas Eve |
Just an unlucky coincidence I’d have thought, Max. None of the jabs contain a live virus.
Sounds like you’ve had a lovely Christmas, mind.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:00 - Jan 18 with 2480 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:46 - Jan 18 by Gwyn737 |
I was pretty much the opposite, Loh.
Very rough for 48 hours after the first, slight sore arm only after the second and nowt at all after the booster.
AZ for first 2 Pfizer booster.
The question i was alluding to was because I was expecting to be ill with well known side effects, does it count as an adverse reaction? [Post edited 18 Jan 2022 18:47]
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I suppose so, but if you were expecting it does it count as something you’d be likely to report?
I have wondered to myself over this last year how much of it could be psychosomatic? I mean, we’ve all heard from friends and family ‘how ill’ they’ve been. I’m sure we’ve all braced ourselves. Could that timorous mindset bring about a bodily reaction? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:03 - Jan 18 with 2476 views | Gwyn737 |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:00 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I suppose so, but if you were expecting it does it count as something you’d be likely to report?
I have wondered to myself over this last year how much of it could be psychosomatic? I mean, we’ve all heard from friends and family ‘how ill’ they’ve been. I’m sure we’ve all braced ourselves. Could that timorous mindset bring about a bodily reaction? |
That’s what I’m getting at. There’s no way I’d report it as it was completely expected.
It seems that some are calling these well known side effects ‘vaccine injuries’.
Seems a bit nuts to me. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:04 - Jan 18 with 2474 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 18:45 - Jan 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
The Moderna vaccine contains a far higher dose of mRNA than the Pfizer one. |
I had to look up what that meant.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:21 - Jan 18 with 2456 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:03 - Jan 18 by Gwyn737 |
That’s what I’m getting at. There’s no way I’d report it as it was completely expected.
It seems that some are calling these well known side effects ‘vaccine injuries’.
Seems a bit nuts to me. |
What? People going way OTT IN 2020!?
Get away with you! | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:58 - Jan 18 with 2433 views | Professor |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:04 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I had to look up what that meant. |
The sore arm and fever tends not to be down to the vaccine itself Loh, but more to how it’s packaged. To get a vaccine to work well you have to trick the immune system into thinking there is infection. The immune system is really split into two. Innate and adaptive. Innate is rapid but non-specific . Adaptive is specific to part of a pathogen (antigen-or more strictly an epitope) and gives rise to a high affinity specific response of antibody and/or T cells. This takes awhile to kick in-it’s a complex process. The innate system has receptors that are highly conserved between species that recognise repeated features on pathogens not present in hosts. There include single stranded RNA , various glycoproteins and bacterial repeated structures like flagella. They recognise a repeated pattern. They activate cells like macrophages and neutrophils and induce things like an anti viral state. They also switch on adaptive responses-without this signal it does not happen.
BUT they are very inflammatory and cause damage and fever.
We will come back to this point.
So in vaccines (in the case of the RNA vaccines it is the lipids they are packaged in) we add a component called an adjuvant, which I am sure you can guess, helps the vaccine by including components that stimulate innate immunity. Of course this also causes inflammation-soreness and redness and can lead to fever due to some of the signalling proteins called cytokines that are produced.
DM if you want more detail. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:15 - Jan 18 with 2415 views | Dr_Winston |
No reaction whatsoever to the first two jabs. Bit of a sore arm and slightly woozy feeling for a few hours after #3. Piece of piss. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:26 - Jan 18 with 2408 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:58 - Jan 18 by Professor |
The sore arm and fever tends not to be down to the vaccine itself Loh, but more to how it’s packaged. To get a vaccine to work well you have to trick the immune system into thinking there is infection. The immune system is really split into two. Innate and adaptive. Innate is rapid but non-specific . Adaptive is specific to part of a pathogen (antigen-or more strictly an epitope) and gives rise to a high affinity specific response of antibody and/or T cells. This takes awhile to kick in-it’s a complex process. The innate system has receptors that are highly conserved between species that recognise repeated features on pathogens not present in hosts. There include single stranded RNA , various glycoproteins and bacterial repeated structures like flagella. They recognise a repeated pattern. They activate cells like macrophages and neutrophils and induce things like an anti viral state. They also switch on adaptive responses-without this signal it does not happen.
BUT they are very inflammatory and cause damage and fever.
We will come back to this point.
So in vaccines (in the case of the RNA vaccines it is the lipids they are packaged in) we add a component called an adjuvant, which I am sure you can guess, helps the vaccine by including components that stimulate innate immunity. Of course this also causes inflammation-soreness and redness and can lead to fever due to some of the signalling proteins called cytokines that are produced.
DM if you want more detail. |
Now, see, there’s nobody else of my acquaintance remotely capable of that.
Kudos, Prof, and thank you!  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:33 - Jan 18 with 2400 views | Dr_Winston |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:26 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
Now, see, there’s nobody else of my acquaintance remotely capable of that.
Kudos, Prof, and thank you! |
But people out there watch a couple of Youtube videos and think that makes them capable of catching him out.
Mentalists. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:46 - Jan 18 with 2389 views | Professor |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:33 - Jan 18 by Dr_Winston |
But people out there watch a couple of Youtube videos and think that makes them capable of catching him out.
Mentalists. |
Just pleased the vaccines are offering a route back to normal life. Need to get the whole world jabbed now. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:49 - Jan 18 with 2386 views | Wingstandwood |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:33 - Jan 18 by Dr_Winston |
But people out there watch a couple of Youtube videos and think that makes them capable of catching him out.
Mentalists. |
Aye, utterly surreal stuff at times, I watch on the sidelines aghast at conspiracy bullsh1t!
But hey, nothing gives someone more gravitas and expertise about matters than that of David Icke's invaluable experience(s) gained from years of snooker and bowls commentary at the BBC! [Post edited 18 Jan 2022 20:50]
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:53 - Jan 18 with 2372 views | Lohengrin |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:33 - Jan 18 by Dr_Winston |
But people out there watch a couple of Youtube videos and think that makes them capable of catching him out.
Mentalists. |
😂 | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:01 - Jan 18 with 2366 views | YouBackJastard |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:26 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
Now, see, there’s nobody else of my acquaintance remotely capable of that.
Kudos, Prof, and thank you! |
He is by far the smartest person I’ve seen on here.. just wish we could have 10 of him scattered around to swat away the constant flow of anti-vaccine s**** from some posters on here!
Thank you Prof  | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:12 - Jan 18 with 2352 views | Dr_Winston |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 20:49 - Jan 18 by Wingstandwood |
Aye, utterly surreal stuff at times, I watch on the sidelines aghast at conspiracy bullsh1t!
But hey, nothing gives someone more gravitas and expertise about matters than that of David Icke's invaluable experience(s) gained from years of snooker and bowls commentary at the BBC! [Post edited 18 Jan 2022 20:50]
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There are a few more general things that we've disagreed on in the past, but I wouldn't dream of getting into a technical disagreement with him as I'd be as out of my depth as a Cardiff fan in the Marianas Trench.
I cannot understand the mindset of some random Herbert on the internet thinking that he's remotely qualified to go toe to toe with someone holding a Professorship in a subject. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:19 - Jan 18 with 2341 views | Professor |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:01 - Jan 18 by YouBackJastard |
He is by far the smartest person I’ve seen on here.. just wish we could have 10 of him scattered around to swat away the constant flow of anti-vaccine s**** from some posters on here!
Thank you Prof |
Plenty of smart people on here my friend, in different ways and different areas. It’s 35 years experience and study. | | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:35 - Jan 18 with 2328 views | Sirjohnalot |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:12 - Jan 18 by Dr_Winston |
There are a few more general things that we've disagreed on in the past, but I wouldn't dream of getting into a technical disagreement with him as I'd be as out of my depth as a Cardiff fan in the Marianas Trench.
I cannot understand the mindset of some random Herbert on the internet thinking that he's remotely qualified to go toe to toe with someone holding a Professorship in a subject. |
Absolutely spot on. |  | | |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 21:40 - Jan 18 with 2318 views | CountyJim |
| More than half of reported vaccine adverse effects.. on 19:58 - Jan 18 by Professor |
The sore arm and fever tends not to be down to the vaccine itself Loh, but more to how it’s packaged. To get a vaccine to work well you have to trick the immune system into thinking there is infection. The immune system is really split into two. Innate and adaptive. Innate is rapid but non-specific . Adaptive is specific to part of a pathogen (antigen-or more strictly an epitope) and gives rise to a high affinity specific response of antibody and/or T cells. This takes awhile to kick in-it’s a complex process. The innate system has receptors that are highly conserved between species that recognise repeated features on pathogens not present in hosts. There include single stranded RNA , various glycoproteins and bacterial repeated structures like flagella. They recognise a repeated pattern. They activate cells like macrophages and neutrophils and induce things like an anti viral state. They also switch on adaptive responses-without this signal it does not happen.
BUT they are very inflammatory and cause damage and fever.
We will come back to this point.
So in vaccines (in the case of the RNA vaccines it is the lipids they are packaged in) we add a component called an adjuvant, which I am sure you can guess, helps the vaccine by including components that stimulate innate immunity. Of course this also causes inflammation-soreness and redness and can lead to fever due to some of the signalling proteins called cytokines that are produced.
DM if you want more detail. |
It's strange for years always had a reaction to the flu jab ie feeling crap for avfew days this year nothing at all which was nice for a change |  | | |
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