| Stadium Expansion 18:07 - Sep 22 with 7328 views | johnlangy |
This question came up numerous times when we were in the PL and every time people argued that, rather than spending £15 million on the extension we should spend the money on strengthening the squad to avoid relegation. That's what we tried in Jan 2018 and we got relegated anyway.
So my question is this. We signed Ayew for £18 million or so and are paying him £4 million a year. Which means he will have cost us around £30 million by the end of his contract. So far, with what we've paid West Ham and his wages we've paid out let's say £15 million with another £15 million to go.
If we'd gone for the stadium expansion that would be in place now. And we'd have saved £15 million on our outgoings for the next few years. Meaning there could possibly have been more money available to spend in January if we're still doing well. And if we did manage to get promoted again we'd have a 30,000 stadium capable of holding all the people who couldn't get tickets last time. And then we COULD spend whatever we had on players because the stadium would be complete.
The spend on the Academy and the Fairwood training base have both proved well worth the money. And they will be there for the benefit of the Club for a very long time as would an expanded stadium.
Sensible spending on infrastructure has to be a good thing. It can't always be spend it on a new player and hope for the best which is what we did with Ayew and Bony. |  | | |  |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:19 - Sep 22 with 5913 views | jackharris |
Why in the World would we want to expand the stadium? Every fixture we played in the Premier League I could get extra tickets for my family or friends. The extra tickets would have meant larger Away followings and more plastics to go. Thank goodness we didn’t extend. In the future if we did become stable again in the Premier League perhaps it will be revisited. At this present moment we don’t even need to think about it. We need to get the kids in, with kids for a quid offers in the North (when Away followings are small). We only had 17,000 odd v Forest.
The club maximised the space available with extra seats. Perhaps in the future terracing might be allowed and the lower East and North stands could be standing. And that concourse we have is much too wide. How many clubs have a blinking concourse as wide as a Roman Road. Leicester and Southampton stadiums are not far off the same height as ours but we have a motorway for a concourse. [Post edited 22 Sep 2019 21:20]
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| Stadium Expansion on 18:25 - Sep 22 with 5884 views | Gowerjack |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:19 - Sep 22 by jackharris |
Why in the World would we want to expand the stadium? Every fixture we played in the Premier League I could get extra tickets for my family or friends. The extra tickets would have meant larger Away followings and more plastics to go. Thank goodness we didn’t extend. In the future if we did become stable again in the Premier League perhaps it will be revisited. At this present moment we don’t even need to think about it. We need to get the kids in, with kids for a quid offers in the North (when Away followings are small). We only had 17,000 odd v Forest.
The club maximised the space available with extra seats. Perhaps in the future terracing might be allowed and the lower East and North stands could be standing. And that concourse we have is much too wide. How many clubs have a blinking concourse as wide as a Roman Road. Leicester and Southampton stadiums are not far off the same height as ours but we have a motorway for a concourse. [Post edited 22 Sep 2019 21:20]
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Spot on. |  |
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| Stadium Expansion on 18:29 - Sep 22 with 5875 views | andrew |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:25 - Sep 22 by Gowerjack |
Spot on. |
Don’t think an expansion is worth it just for the Cardiff game.
Even in the premier league we’d only sell 30k against the big 6 and that would include 3/4K of away fans and welsh premier league fans mixing with our fans. | |
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| Stadium Expansion on 19:54 - Sep 22 with 5719 views | jack_lord |
If something could be done with the concourse to add a couple of thousand then brilliant. |  |
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| Stadium Expansion on 21:26 - Sep 22 with 5580 views | jackharris |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:29 - Sep 22 by andrew |
Don’t think an expansion is worth it just for the Cardiff game.
Even in the premier league we’d only sell 30k against the big 6 and that would include 3/4K of away fans and welsh premier league fans mixing with our fans. |
Still lots of tickets left for the Cardiff match.
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| Stadium Expansion on 22:45 - Sep 22 with 5467 views | DrGonzo |
I believe we missed a trick not expanding and making tickets cheaper a long time ago. You can point to empty seats now all you want but it doesn't excuse the fact that at one point we were selling out a lot of games. |  | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 10:44 - Sep 23 with 5269 views | felixstowe_jack |
not gone on general sale yet. | |
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| Stadium Expansion on 11:09 - Sep 23 with 5254 views | jackharris |
| Stadium Expansion on 22:45 - Sep 22 by DrGonzo |
I believe we missed a trick not expanding and making tickets cheaper a long time ago. You can point to empty seats now all you want but it doesn't excuse the fact that at one point we were selling out a lot of games. |
We missed no trick in not expanding. To build an extension to the East Stand would have been a good idea in the first 4 seasons of our Premier League campaign. In our last 3 seasons we had lots of spaces where season ticket holding supporters were simply not bothering.
You can look at the cost it would have been more than people expected to extend out on the side of the river. When we built the East Stand at the Vetch it nearly bankrupted us. The club did the right thing in putting in extra seats where they could. The bigger the capacity also means the more tickets you have to give to Away supporters (10% until you reach a capacity of 30,000 or more).
We now have a really great opportunity of getting the kids interested in the Super Swans. And maybe in the future an expansion would make more sense. For now we should be maximising the 21,000 seats that are available on every match day. If the away side don’t bring many fans, get that second away section of 1,100 full of young people and their friends and family. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 11:10]
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| Stadium Expansion on 11:12 - Sep 23 with 5247 views | NWSwans |
The fun poked at the CCS for being half empty every other weekend, we'd be in the exact same position | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 11:12 - Sep 23 with 5222 views | jacks777 |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:19 - Sep 22 by jackharris |
Why in the World would we want to expand the stadium? Every fixture we played in the Premier League I could get extra tickets for my family or friends. The extra tickets would have meant larger Away followings and more plastics to go. Thank goodness we didn’t extend. In the future if we did become stable again in the Premier League perhaps it will be revisited. At this present moment we don’t even need to think about it. We need to get the kids in, with kids for a quid offers in the North (when Away followings are small). We only had 17,000 odd v Forest.
The club maximised the space available with extra seats. Perhaps in the future terracing might be allowed and the lower East and North stands could be standing. And that concourse we have is much too wide. How many clubs have a blinking concourse as wide as a Roman Road. Leicester and Southampton stadiums are not far off the same height as ours but we have a motorway for a concourse. [Post edited 22 Sep 2019 21:20]
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What a load of shite | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 12:46 - Sep 23 with 5174 views | jack247 |
Andre Ayew second time round was one of the worst signings I can remember. Not one of the worst players by a long stretch, but given the context it was crazy.
That said, is the opening post seriously suggesting we should have prioritised stadium expansion over signing players, at a time where you could get tickets for any game bar the glory clubs a couple of days before kick off and we were a relegation away from being a financial shambles? | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 14:47 - Sep 23 with 5045 views | Devz00 |
| Stadium Expansion on 11:09 - Sep 23 by jackharris |
We missed no trick in not expanding. To build an extension to the East Stand would have been a good idea in the first 4 seasons of our Premier League campaign. In our last 3 seasons we had lots of spaces where season ticket holding supporters were simply not bothering.
You can look at the cost it would have been more than people expected to extend out on the side of the river. When we built the East Stand at the Vetch it nearly bankrupted us. The club did the right thing in putting in extra seats where they could. The bigger the capacity also means the more tickets you have to give to Away supporters (10% until you reach a capacity of 30,000 or more).
We now have a really great opportunity of getting the kids interested in the Super Swans. And maybe in the future an expansion would make more sense. For now we should be maximising the 21,000 seats that are available on every match day. If the away side don’t bring many fans, get that second away section of 1,100 full of young people and their friends and family. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 11:10]
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You mention getting the kids involved with watching the Swans. That's exactly why we should have expanded the stadium when we had the chance. The first few seasons of Premier League football were sell-outs. We were packing out the ground and if you were lucky enough to get a match day ticket you had to pay through the nose for it and sit away from any family and friends. I know because I used to do it myself. I was working and living away so gave up my season ticket the year that Sousa was in charge. When I came home for the weekend I would be paying nearly £50 a ticket for some home games with the booking fees.
Having a bigger ground would have meant the chance to have a cheaper match day ticket, if we wanted to do it. It would have meant that youngsters from across South and West Wales would be able to go and watch a Premier League game. Initially it may be to watch the likes of Rooney, Aguero etc but then that's how you get future fans. They may go to watch the opposition, get bitten by the bug and want to return. Before you know it, you've got a new Swans fan. Again, I can relate to this because I had family members in Pembrokeshire asking me to take their youngsters to the game and I was struggling to get a ticket myself. My first Swans game was the Wembley trip in 94. The only reason I went, as a 9 year old, was to watch the final at Wembley. I was hooked from that day.
You can argue against the expansion. But in my opinion, it was a massive opportunity missed. It always seems to be the ones that are arguing against the expansion, are the ones that have season tickets so aren't bothered. |  |
| Genetically, paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that is scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact. |
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| Stadium Expansion on 14:50 - Sep 23 with 5041 views | TimTtam |
I can see both sides of the argument.
It would be a great, and necessary idea in order to increase revenue. More seats means potentially more tickets sold, which means more revenue, which means we can spend more on players that will ultimately be signed to try reach the ultimate goal of promotion back to the PL. And then while in the PL, we could attract larger crowds, and have more and more revenue coming in. In the end, money is what keeps teams up.
On the other hand, we don't really fill the stadium anyway. There's no point having a half-empty bowl like Stadium MK. If we were ever going to expand the stadium, we would need to be in the PL, and would need to be consistently selling out for games. |  |
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| Stadium Expansion on 15:02 - Sep 23 with 5020 views | Devz00 |
| Stadium Expansion on 14:50 - Sep 23 by TimTtam |
I can see both sides of the argument.
It would be a great, and necessary idea in order to increase revenue. More seats means potentially more tickets sold, which means more revenue, which means we can spend more on players that will ultimately be signed to try reach the ultimate goal of promotion back to the PL. And then while in the PL, we could attract larger crowds, and have more and more revenue coming in. In the end, money is what keeps teams up.
On the other hand, we don't really fill the stadium anyway. There's no point having a half-empty bowl like Stadium MK. If we were ever going to expand the stadium, we would need to be in the PL, and would need to be consistently selling out for games. |
As per my initial message, we should have expanded when we first spoke about it. That would have been in the Premier League. There's no reason to do it right now.
I'm not sure about the increased revenue being enough to bring in extra players etc. Ultimately, we survived off the Premier League TV money and the ticket sales were relatively small. But to become a bigger club you need to maximise your fan base. We couldn't do that with the stadium size that we had. | |
| Genetically, paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that is scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact. |
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| Stadium Expansion on 15:25 - Sep 23 with 4992 views | jackharris |
| Stadium Expansion on 14:47 - Sep 23 by Devz00 |
You mention getting the kids involved with watching the Swans. That's exactly why we should have expanded the stadium when we had the chance. The first few seasons of Premier League football were sell-outs. We were packing out the ground and if you were lucky enough to get a match day ticket you had to pay through the nose for it and sit away from any family and friends. I know because I used to do it myself. I was working and living away so gave up my season ticket the year that Sousa was in charge. When I came home for the weekend I would be paying nearly £50 a ticket for some home games with the booking fees.
Having a bigger ground would have meant the chance to have a cheaper match day ticket, if we wanted to do it. It would have meant that youngsters from across South and West Wales would be able to go and watch a Premier League game. Initially it may be to watch the likes of Rooney, Aguero etc but then that's how you get future fans. They may go to watch the opposition, get bitten by the bug and want to return. Before you know it, you've got a new Swans fan. Again, I can relate to this because I had family members in Pembrokeshire asking me to take their youngsters to the game and I was struggling to get a ticket myself. My first Swans game was the Wembley trip in 94. The only reason I went, as a 9 year old, was to watch the final at Wembley. I was hooked from that day.
You can argue against the expansion. But in my opinion, it was a massive opportunity missed. It always seems to be the ones that are arguing against the expansion, are the ones that have season tickets so aren't bothered. |
As I said earlier an extension would have been good during the first 3 or 4 seasons. However, the club was correct to hold fire and to add seats here and there. Yes I certainly know what it was like getting tickets and I would be online at 10am on a Monday morning getting 2 tickets for my nephew and Dad, with my JA Season Ticket membership. But that has now gone. We now have a stadium that this moment in time is the perfect size for us.
Case in Point - Wolves built a lovely new stand at their ground instead of investing in their side and it cost them their Premier League Status and then their Championship Status. Only now are they back up where the stand was a feasible build. Look at Bournemouth they haven’t rushed into any rebuild yet or moving to a new site. The South Stand at Bournemouth is a temporary permanent stand and they could have developed that but they are holding fire. Get stability and that expand.
There is no doubting we could have done with expansion when we played the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, etc but really speaking that would have been to the satisfaction of plastic Man U fans and plastic Swans. At £45 a time you wouldn’t have seen many kids and families having access to those tickets.
Still having this Stadium Extension way of thinking at this moment in time is just sheer stupidity. | |
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| Stadium Expansion on 15:35 - Sep 23 with 4976 views | monmouth |
You don’t actually have to look any further than us as an example when overambitious stadium plans nearly killed us.
It IS criminal that we could have done it but wasted the money instead on turd like Fat Frank and his ilk. Hopefully, next time we’ll strike a better balance.
Bourno will have nothing to show for it when they go down (and they will) if they don’t sort out their ground. |  |
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| Stadium Expansion on 16:44 - Sep 23 with 4921 views | jackforever |
| Stadium Expansion on 15:35 - Sep 23 by monmouth |
You don’t actually have to look any further than us as an example when overambitious stadium plans nearly killed us.
It IS criminal that we could have done it but wasted the money instead on turd like Fat Frank and his ilk. Hopefully, next time we’ll strike a better balance.
Bourno will have nothing to show for it when they go down (and they will) if they don’t sort out their ground. |
It was always a ridiculous idea and there is no evidence that it was sustainable. After the first two seasons crowd demand wasn't as high and season tickets became available. 5000 extra seats for £15m just so a few plastics could go and a few more kids? Really. We didn't even sell out cup games including Europe. The demand isn't there. Anyone who thinks we had 15million spare to build a vanity project is in dream land. Our wage bill was massive and as a result our transfer business went downhill.
If you want legacy look at Landore and Fairwood. Look at The academy and how it's gone from one of the worst in the UK to one of the best. | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 17:26 - Sep 23 with 4880 views | jack247 |
| Stadium Expansion on 15:35 - Sep 23 by monmouth |
You don’t actually have to look any further than us as an example when overambitious stadium plans nearly killed us.
It IS criminal that we could have done it but wasted the money instead on turd like Fat Frank and his ilk. Hopefully, next time we’ll strike a better balance.
Bourno will have nothing to show for it when they go down (and they will) if they don’t sort out their ground. |
If we could look at it retrospectively and just not sign the players that didn’t work out, then ok. In reality, the thinking seems to be we should have funded it by spending less on players.
We were invariably among the lowest net spenders on transfer fees. We just didn’t have the money. I doubt we’d have lasted 7 years if we’d spunked a big wedge on stadium expansion after 2 or 3 anyway. We’d have just had loads of empty seats. | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 19:02 - Sep 23 with 4806 views | johnlangy |
| Stadium Expansion on 15:25 - Sep 23 by jackharris |
As I said earlier an extension would have been good during the first 3 or 4 seasons. However, the club was correct to hold fire and to add seats here and there. Yes I certainly know what it was like getting tickets and I would be online at 10am on a Monday morning getting 2 tickets for my nephew and Dad, with my JA Season Ticket membership. But that has now gone. We now have a stadium that this moment in time is the perfect size for us.
Case in Point - Wolves built a lovely new stand at their ground instead of investing in their side and it cost them their Premier League Status and then their Championship Status. Only now are they back up where the stand was a feasible build. Look at Bournemouth they haven’t rushed into any rebuild yet or moving to a new site. The South Stand at Bournemouth is a temporary permanent stand and they could have developed that but they are holding fire. Get stability and that expand.
There is no doubting we could have done with expansion when we played the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, etc but really speaking that would have been to the satisfaction of plastic Man U fans and plastic Swans. At £45 a time you wouldn’t have seen many kids and families having access to those tickets.
Still having this Stadium Extension way of thinking at this moment in time is just sheer stupidity. |
'Still having this Stadium Extension way of thinking at this moment in time is just sheer stupidity'. Thank you very much jack. But i'm not talking about building it now.
In retrospect just about every poster on this forum said that HJ panicked when he bought Bony and Ayew. From memory Bony scored one goal against Stoke. Was that it ?
I remember Sean Dyche being interviewed the season they were relegated, I believe, and he said he wouldn't spend money on players that would possibly damage the financial future of the Club. That he was only interested in building the Club up. He probably bought a couple of players but not two players for a combined £30 million with £9 million per year contracts. And, on that subject, where were the 50% relegation clauses in those two contracts ? That's what we insisted on in the early PL years. So Burnley were relegated and coped with relegation very well and got promoted back to the PL.
I don't know enough about the Wolves situation to compare but numerous clubs that have gone down through the leagues (eg Bolton) had huge debts, maybe £100 million or more. We didn't have that but we did have a huge wage bill that had to be cut drastically.
Comparing us with Wolves you appear to be saying that if we'd spent £15 million on the stadium we'd be in financial trouble like them. I'm making the point that if we'd spent that £15 million and spent sensibly on players we wouldn't be in trouble. We'd be in probably a better financial situation than we are now and all ready for our return to the PL. | | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 19:54 - Sep 23 with 4758 views | plasjack |
Them up the road only expanded when they were chosen for the super cup, and were funded by EUFA, perhaps we will be nominated one day. |  | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 20:50 - Sep 23 with 4683 views | Garyjack |
| Stadium Expansion on 19:54 - Sep 23 by plasjack |
Them up the road only expanded when they were chosen for the super cup, and were funded by EUFA, perhaps we will be nominated one day. |
I've heard from a reliable source that Real Madrid have provisionally booked The Dolphin Hotel for 2024. |  | | |
| Stadium Expansion on 20:51 - Sep 23 with 4675 views | jackharris |
| Stadium Expansion on 19:02 - Sep 23 by johnlangy |
'Still having this Stadium Extension way of thinking at this moment in time is just sheer stupidity'. Thank you very much jack. But i'm not talking about building it now.
In retrospect just about every poster on this forum said that HJ panicked when he bought Bony and Ayew. From memory Bony scored one goal against Stoke. Was that it ?
I remember Sean Dyche being interviewed the season they were relegated, I believe, and he said he wouldn't spend money on players that would possibly damage the financial future of the Club. That he was only interested in building the Club up. He probably bought a couple of players but not two players for a combined £30 million with £9 million per year contracts. And, on that subject, where were the 50% relegation clauses in those two contracts ? That's what we insisted on in the early PL years. So Burnley were relegated and coped with relegation very well and got promoted back to the PL.
I don't know enough about the Wolves situation to compare but numerous clubs that have gone down through the leagues (eg Bolton) had huge debts, maybe £100 million or more. We didn't have that but we did have a huge wage bill that had to be cut drastically.
Comparing us with Wolves you appear to be saying that if we'd spent £15 million on the stadium we'd be in financial trouble like them. I'm making the point that if we'd spent that £15 million and spent sensibly on players we wouldn't be in trouble. We'd be in probably a better financial situation than we are now and all ready for our return to the PL. |
‘Still having this Stadium Extension way of thinking at this moment in time is just sheer stupidity'. ‘Thank you very much jack. But i'm not talking about building it now.’
‘Well then you can class yourself as one of the NOT stupid fans.’ 
I was always for building an extension right up until we played Leicester City (the Season they were champions) and they walloped us 3-0, after that everything seemed to fall apart and we were in total free fall, such as with our managerial appointments.
Last season I fell back in love with coming to the Liberty, I now love the intimacy of our ground. I love the fact that we play awesome football again. We should have beaten Man City and would have with VAR.
If I had my way (without the Taylor Report) I would Terrace the East Lower and North Lowers, with old fashioned Terrace and barriers (extra step on each). The North Upper and East Upper would be safe standing. In the West Stand I would take away those hospitality boxes at the back (and that wall) and I reckon we could fit another 12 rows (ZZ becoming AA TO MM). That’s an extra 3,000 fans.
Please forgive my quick sketch...
 [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 20:56]
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| Very proud to be voted Planet Swans Poster of the Year 2017 by my fellow posters. Especially on a site that nearly had 20 million impressions last year. | | Poll: | What is your favourite Knock? |
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| Stadium Expansion on 20:52 - Sep 23 with 4673 views | jackharris |
| Stadium Expansion on 20:50 - Sep 23 by Garyjack |
I've heard from a reliable source that Real Madrid have provisionally booked The Dolphin Hotel for 2024. |
They always get the best Hotels them Madridians! | |
| Very proud to be voted Planet Swans Poster of the Year 2017 by my fellow posters. Especially on a site that nearly had 20 million impressions last year. | | Poll: | What is your favourite Knock? |
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| Stadium Expansion on 21:01 - Sep 23 with 4642 views | Jacket |
| Stadium Expansion on 18:19 - Sep 22 by jackharris |
Why in the World would we want to expand the stadium? Every fixture we played in the Premier League I could get extra tickets for my family or friends. The extra tickets would have meant larger Away followings and more plastics to go. Thank goodness we didn’t extend. In the future if we did become stable again in the Premier League perhaps it will be revisited. At this present moment we don’t even need to think about it. We need to get the kids in, with kids for a quid offers in the North (when Away followings are small). We only had 17,000 odd v Forest.
The club maximised the space available with extra seats. Perhaps in the future terracing might be allowed and the lower East and North stands could be standing. And that concourse we have is much too wide. How many clubs have a blinking concourse as wide as a Roman Road. Leicester and Southampton stadiums are not far off the same height as ours but we have a motorway for a concourse. [Post edited 22 Sep 2019 21:20]
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How on earth could the concourse be used??? I may be pissed getting in to games, but I could have sworn it was flat!!! How does a flat concourse reduce the attendance in comparison to stadium height? I don't get it. | | | |
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