| Anton Ferdinand Documentary 20:40 - Sep 10 with 23635 views | Noelmc |
This could be interesting.
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 13:50 - Dec 1 with 2528 views | LazyFan |
If we want real change we have to make a stand.
For example, if someone like a fan says something as racist as that scumbag, they would get a life-time ban by the club and never be allowed back in the ground. And rightly so.
Here is the proof we do what we say: https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/qpr-to-act-after-wright-race-row-6944959.html
This should be the same for Terry. That's correct. We should ban him for life from the QPR ground. Regardless of him being the staff of another team, no lame excuses. And if we have to accept any fines from the EFL or FA (cup games) should this breach any rules, then we do it without regret. Taking a proper stand regardless of the consequences.
Now let's say Terry gets lucky and never has to come back to our ground, this won't help him as we should make it public as a Club that Terry is banned forever. A campaign against him and in support of really really really kicking racism out of football. This then puts pressure on the other clubs to do the same and make him a pariah across the land.
And who in the Club should do this? Our CEO should do it to show we mean it. This is the least we can do for Anton and his family and also to as Les says, do something real and tangible as real change.
Ban him like we would ban anyone who said such racist things. If you can't do the racist time, then don't do the racist crime.
No excuses, zero tolerance. [Post edited 1 Dec 2020 14:37]
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 13:59 - Dec 1 with 2496 views | paulparker |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 13:50 - Dec 1 by LazyFan |
If we want real change we have to make a stand.
For example, if someone like a fan says something as racist as that scumbag, they would get a life-time ban by the club and never be allowed back in the ground. And rightly so.
Here is the proof we do what we say: https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/qpr-to-act-after-wright-race-row-6944959.html
This should be the same for Terry. That's correct. We should ban him for life from the QPR ground. Regardless of him being the staff of another team, no lame excuses. And if we have to accept any fines from the EFL or FA (cup games) should this breach any rules, then we do it without regret. Taking a proper stand regardless of the consequences.
Now let's say Terry gets lucky and never has to come back to our ground, this won't help him as we should make it public as a Club that Terry is banned forever. A campaign against him and in support of really really really kicking racism out of football. This then puts pressure on the other clubs to do the same and make him a pariah across the land.
And who in the Club should do this? Our CEO should do it to show we mean it. This is the least we can do for Anton and his family and also to as Les says, do something real and tangible as real change.
Ban him like we would ban anyone who said such racist things. If you can't do the racist time, then don't do the racist crime.
No excuses, zero tolerance. [Post edited 1 Dec 2020 14:37]
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Does that count for Trevor Sinclair to ?
It was interesting that I heard Mr Sinclair preaching on talkSPORT earlier today when he was actually nicked for racial abuse , do these media outlets ever do their homework
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/02/ex-england- |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:04 - Dec 1 with 2481 views | LazyFan |
Yes, no excuses. | |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:20 - Dec 1 with 2446 views | DejR_vu |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 13:12 - Dec 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Apologies if I misinterpreted. I read your post quite clearly, but the line that starts it is 'no one comes out of this with huge credit' and in a list of bullet points of these people not coming out with huge credit, are the institutions, Terry, and... Anton Ferdinand.
Now of course you explained what you meant and so on, and you've been clearer now, so let's leave it there, but at best I felt it was badly set out. I didn't say whether Anton was right or wrong not to speak out - that was his decison and it was his right to do what he thought best - but he doesn't deserve to be judged on it. |
Antti, you offer an apology and then say 'let's leave it there' but then don't. You follow up with 'at best I felt it was badly set out'. The 'at best' is more than antagonistic. You need to be very careful throwing insinuations around, particularly on something so sensitive.
For what it's worth, I didn't clarify anything, I simply re-stated and summarised what I had previously said and added an observation on AF's mother's view for context.
If you've misinterpreted what I've written, that's down to you. Apologising and 'leaving it there', and then going on to try and justify it with another insinuation is low. |  |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:27 - Dec 1 with 2423 views | rrrspricey |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:04 - Dec 1 by LazyFan |
Yes, no excuses. |
Totally agree, there's no excuse for racism in any form .
There is , imho, a fundamental difference in Sinclair's and Terry's cases in that it's very unlikely the white policeman is unlikely to have spent his life being judged, abused, discriminated against because of the colour of his skin.
Did the rozzer's parents have to say to him you'll get treated differently because of your colour of if you're being searched turn your own pockets out so nothing's planted on you?
Like i said not condoning what Sinclair did and it's wrong in all forms, just maybe slightly different levels of wrongness . |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:32 - Dec 1 with 2392 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:20 - Dec 1 by DejR_vu |
Antti, you offer an apology and then say 'let's leave it there' but then don't. You follow up with 'at best I felt it was badly set out'. The 'at best' is more than antagonistic. You need to be very careful throwing insinuations around, particularly on something so sensitive.
For what it's worth, I didn't clarify anything, I simply re-stated and summarised what I had previously said and added an observation on AF's mother's view for context.
If you've misinterpreted what I've written, that's down to you. Apologising and 'leaving it there', and then going on to try and justify it with another insinuation is low. |
Point taken. I haven't misinterpreted anything: I disagree on this occasion with how you set out your points, and still do, but that's it. I think you were wrong to include The Ferdinands in your list, however much you qualified it. I don't think there's anything more sinister to it than that and sorry for choosing my words poorly on the previous post.
Look forward to your future posts, as always. |  |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:35 - Dec 1 with 2369 views | paulparker |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:04 - Dec 1 by LazyFan |
Yes, no excuses. |
Fair play | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:36 - Dec 1 with 2371 views | DejR_vu |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:32 - Dec 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Point taken. I haven't misinterpreted anything: I disagree on this occasion with how you set out your points, and still do, but that's it. I think you were wrong to include The Ferdinands in your list, however much you qualified it. I don't think there's anything more sinister to it than that and sorry for choosing my words poorly on the previous post.
Look forward to your future posts, as always. |
You have a real air of arrogance about you. Even when 'apologising' you're condescending. | |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:46 - Dec 1 with 2342 views | R_from_afar |
There is so much you could say about that programme. Anton was the victim yet was treated like the villain by so many. Terrible.
The thing which haunts me more than any other aspect of the programme, though, is not anything football related, it's that image of him, as a little boy, and his mum, being spat at for having the temerity to be mixed race. That is heart-breaking and utterly appalling. That's how racism can manifest itself. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 15:31 - Dec 1 with 2276 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:36 - Dec 1 by DejR_vu |
You have a real air of arrogance about you. Even when 'apologising' you're condescending. |
jesus christ mate, what do you want me to say?
That was a genuine apology with explanation of why i disagree with what you posted. There's no arrogance there, certainly none intended. | |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 16:54 - Dec 1 with 2145 views | nix |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 10:20 - Dec 1 by 18StoneOfHoop |
nix you write:
"Meanwhile I doubt whether Chelsea want to defend their record with regard to racist employees and incidents!"
Not sure about this, in the fans not the management's case.(Bruce Buck trying to be the Millwall racism-quenching Heather Rabatt of Chelski.) #KickItOut? #ItsStillThereFFS!
When I bring up the subject on my blog elsewhere the topic of Chelsea fans
tolerance of and inherent racist stance for many decades, the W9 CFC fan I'm arguing with - outside footie he's otherwise engaging good company,love the sinner hate the sin ~ he simply posts time and time again that infamous puzzling pic of the QPR fan walking to Wembley behind the WBA coffin in 1967 in a KKK style cowel. What IS that all about? Liberal Great Martin Luther King Jnr in 1967 would not be impressed,shirley if he knew of these antics in far-flung west London?++++ The CFC fans laboured tedious repetitive point being that every football club 's fanbase has a racist minority,CFC & QPR supporters being no exception. It's a point I hear many times from making excuses CareFreeCounts fans ; that racism is global and endemic and their fan base minority racist attitude Is nothing exceptional.
Your thoughts, or strong convincing white hood cowel explanations, fellow hoops?
Very good thoughtful meat-for-the-mind educative thread everybody BTW. [Post edited 1 Dec 2020 10:52]
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I just was thinking they'd do the Dominic Cummings defence of 'nothing to see here, nothing to apologise for, deny, deny, deny'
It's depressing that your Chelsea mate indulges in a spot of whataboutery rather than acknowledging what's been quite obvious about the club in the past. Having said that, I do wonder if the club are trying to improve, seeing that they now have several black coaches in senior roles. Since football both reflects and influences wider society , the abuse Terry has got from our fans, the experience of the court case and the FA suspension, while inadequate given the impact on Anton, may make Terry and people like him think twice about using those kind of terms in future. We can only hope. |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 17:03 - Dec 1 with 2114 views | dodge_stoke_r |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:27 - Dec 1 by rrrspricey |
Totally agree, there's no excuse for racism in any form .
There is , imho, a fundamental difference in Sinclair's and Terry's cases in that it's very unlikely the white policeman is unlikely to have spent his life being judged, abused, discriminated against because of the colour of his skin.
Did the rozzer's parents have to say to him you'll get treated differently because of your colour of if you're being searched turn your own pockets out so nothing's planted on you?
Like i said not condoning what Sinclair did and it's wrong in all forms, just maybe slightly different levels of wrongness . |
If Sinclair has had to endure being treated differently because of the colour of his skin. Then you could argue that he should be more aware of the distress that it causes and therefore subjecting someone else to it is even more wrong. Depends how you look at what you mean by levels of wrongness, I suppose |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 18:18 - Dec 1 with 1991 views | DavieQPR |
Whilst I find racism detestable in any form the Wokes are not doing anyone any favours by dragging up things from hundreds of years ago. They should be concentrating on the recent and current abuses. |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 00:03 - Dec 2 with 1739 views | numptydumpty |
What baffles me is John Terry said something like Anton said to him "Call me a f*****g b**** c**t. And then John Terry said this back to him. Anton said he never said that and it certainly appeared he wasn't lying at all when he said this, but in a court of law it was deemed that John Terry could well have said this by way of reply - although neither was proven. Even John Terry admitted what he said and Anton Ferdinand actually never heard the comment from John Terry in the game anyhow.
All that says to me is John Terry's very expensive lawyers clearly came up with this as a defence and because it could not be proven either way - he was found not guilty due to lack of clear evidence even though he DEFINITELY said the words - even an amateur lip reader could clearly see that.
Whatever it is - its clearly unpleasant - but our legal system is a total sham - some expensive defence lawyer has come up with this as an explanation - surely the fact this was not delved into deeper and simply taken as red is a terrible indictment on how money can influence the law.
I can imagine a player getting bullets in the post as a consequence for actually being the victim - ie anyone's work performance would have fallen over that.
Cant say anyone could cope with that very easily and if your job is played out in front of few thousand people and the drama is carried out in front of the nation , understandable how Anton would have lost confidence professionally and also personally.
Clearly he was deeply affected - fair play to the man for doing the documentary but one question I would ask wtf were the PFA doing arounds all this at the time.
They clearly did not support Anton and that alone is awful.
As said John Terry continued to be picked for England and really was less affected than the victim.
We sometimes pride ourselves in this country on living in a fair and equal society but this episode was far from that
This stand for BLM means nothing if action even ten years later about events like this - are not re-examined
I sadly have no doubt that John Terry will not receive any further discipling and the FA and PFA reactions to an event where the victim was seen to be more guilty than the perpetrator means sadly I fear this documentary will not change diddly squat
The UK is not as racially friendly as many people would lead us to believe but the legal system is a complete arse !!!!!!!! |  |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:31 - Dec 2 with 1574 views | qpr85 |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:27 - Dec 1 by rrrspricey |
Totally agree, there's no excuse for racism in any form .
There is , imho, a fundamental difference in Sinclair's and Terry's cases in that it's very unlikely the white policeman is unlikely to have spent his life being judged, abused, discriminated against because of the colour of his skin.
Did the rozzer's parents have to say to him you'll get treated differently because of your colour of if you're being searched turn your own pockets out so nothing's planted on you?
Like i said not condoning what Sinclair did and it's wrong in all forms, just maybe slightly different levels of wrongness . |
So what you're saying is regardless of the improvements that have happened black families are still perpetuating the racial stereotype, that you will be treated differently regardless thus feeding the inherent racism by making sure they know that regardless of they way they behave it's just because of their skin colour.
If a black person is racist to a white person, then they should be dealt with the same. Or we will never break the cycle. Especially given young children a get out of jail free card for behaving inappropriately | | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 15:03 - Dec 2 with 1539 views | DannytheR |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 14:31 - Dec 2 by qpr85 |
So what you're saying is regardless of the improvements that have happened black families are still perpetuating the racial stereotype, that you will be treated differently regardless thus feeding the inherent racism by making sure they know that regardless of they way they behave it's just because of their skin colour.
If a black person is racist to a white person, then they should be dealt with the same. Or we will never break the cycle. Especially given young children a get out of jail free card for behaving inappropriately |
Most people would agree racist abuse is racist abuse whoever is using it.
Legally, Sinclair was found guilty, ordered to pay the copper in question compensation, do community service and was disqualified from driving. He made a direct apology to the copper.
Terry as we know was legally acquitted and never directly apologised to Anton Ferdinand.
Some cycles are easier to break than others I suppose. |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 17:18 - Dec 2 with 1435 views | NewYorkRanger |
I have to disagree with your conclusion from this that our our legal system is a total sham. It may well be a sham but this is not evidence of that.
The law in this and many countries dictates that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Ever heard the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty?' The key word there is proven. And it goes further - it is proven beyond a doubt.
So, even though Terry obviously said those words, the legal system as set out in this country clearly could not prove beyond a doubt that they were said with intent and context to cause racial abuse.
Like it or not that is how the system is supposed to work and it is designed as such to prevent miscarriages of justice that end in the removal of liberty. |  |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 17:33 - Dec 2 with 1420 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 17:18 - Dec 2 by NewYorkRanger |
I have to disagree with your conclusion from this that our our legal system is a total sham. It may well be a sham but this is not evidence of that.
The law in this and many countries dictates that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Ever heard the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty?' The key word there is proven. And it goes further - it is proven beyond a doubt.
So, even though Terry obviously said those words, the legal system as set out in this country clearly could not prove beyond a doubt that they were said with intent and context to cause racial abuse.
Like it or not that is how the system is supposed to work and it is designed as such to prevent miscarriages of justice that end in the removal of liberty. |
I agree.
It's not that the verdict reflected poorly on the British legal system, it's that it reflected poorly on John Terry and Ashley Cole. |  |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 21:45 - Dec 2 with 1308 views | qpr85 |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 15:03 - Dec 2 by DannytheR |
Most people would agree racist abuse is racist abuse whoever is using it.
Legally, Sinclair was found guilty, ordered to pay the copper in question compensation, do community service and was disqualified from driving. He made a direct apology to the copper.
Terry as we know was legally acquitted and never directly apologised to Anton Ferdinand.
Some cycles are easier to break than others I suppose. |
I'm not going to sit here on my keyboard and pretend for one second I know what "BAME" people have gone through.
But I will say, the whole situation isn't helped by the parents drilling into their kids that they're different from day one and should look out for it.
The only way it'll stop is when the generation of children are it for what it is and can move forward with each other and not make it an issue.
Youth clubs, boxing gyms, football and any social gatherings that aren't segregated and make these kids see people for who they are and not what they are.
Racism is learnt, no child is born a racist. It's how they've been brought up. Cut that and the cycle is broken | | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:02 - Dec 2 with 1294 views | Juzzie |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 21:45 - Dec 2 by qpr85 |
I'm not going to sit here on my keyboard and pretend for one second I know what "BAME" people have gone through.
But I will say, the whole situation isn't helped by the parents drilling into their kids that they're different from day one and should look out for it.
The only way it'll stop is when the generation of children are it for what it is and can move forward with each other and not make it an issue.
Youth clubs, boxing gyms, football and any social gatherings that aren't segregated and make these kids see people for who they are and not what they are.
Racism is learnt, no child is born a racist. It's how they've been brought up. Cut that and the cycle is broken |
My boy is 6 and I love seeing him and all the other kids at school laughing and playing together in union. Male, female, black, white, asian, oriental and mixes of faiths and cultures. Not a hint of difference, just all in it together. It’s great.
At some point that ends, it’s sad.
I just hope all can continue to be as one but people on the whole will eventually gravitate to their own. Hence pockets of of a variety of communities all over the country.
How does that cycle break.... Can that cycle break. |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:25 - Dec 2 with 1266 views | QPR_Jim |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 21:45 - Dec 2 by qpr85 |
I'm not going to sit here on my keyboard and pretend for one second I know what "BAME" people have gone through.
But I will say, the whole situation isn't helped by the parents drilling into their kids that they're different from day one and should look out for it.
The only way it'll stop is when the generation of children are it for what it is and can move forward with each other and not make it an issue.
Youth clubs, boxing gyms, football and any social gatherings that aren't segregated and make these kids see people for who they are and not what they are.
Racism is learnt, no child is born a racist. It's how they've been brought up. Cut that and the cycle is broken |
In an ideal world you're right but hearing how the policeman insisted one of Anton or Rio must have dropped a spliff butt on their way to training as academy players would make me think perhaps they're right to warn them. I'd imagine that a BAME parent in the US might want to try to educate their children to the risks of policemen right now too. So maybe we're not there yet.
Just got to keep making progress and I think part of that should be to use "cancel culture" for good and get Terry banned from the whole planet. |  | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:41 - Dec 2 with 1246 views | Juzzie |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:25 - Dec 2 by QPR_Jim |
In an ideal world you're right but hearing how the policeman insisted one of Anton or Rio must have dropped a spliff butt on their way to training as academy players would make me think perhaps they're right to warn them. I'd imagine that a BAME parent in the US might want to try to educate their children to the risks of policemen right now too. So maybe we're not there yet.
Just got to keep making progress and I think part of that should be to use "cancel culture" for good and get Terry banned from the whole planet. |
I was on a company wide inclusion course last year and the girl next to me was black and American. She told us about ‘the talk’. I’d never heard of it before, not even in the UK growing up around Ladbroke Grove/Portobello Road in the 70’s and everything going on with the Mangrove and the riots in Brixton, Toxteth, St Pauls, etc which were mainly due to clashes with the police.
It was sad to hear that because of the actions of authoritative figures that at a certain age their parents had to have that talk with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States) | | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:45 - Dec 2 with 1239 views | qpr85 |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:25 - Dec 2 by QPR_Jim |
In an ideal world you're right but hearing how the policeman insisted one of Anton or Rio must have dropped a spliff butt on their way to training as academy players would make me think perhaps they're right to warn them. I'd imagine that a BAME parent in the US might want to try to educate their children to the risks of policemen right now too. So maybe we're not there yet.
Just got to keep making progress and I think part of that should be to use "cancel culture" for good and get Terry banned from the whole planet. |
I get what you're saying but how old was that copper. I'm about to sit down and watch it.
For me there's no excuse for anyone to be racist, especially the actual definition of racist. But there are generations still about who are brought up with it.
I'm proof that racism is lost within 3 generations from war time grandparents.
My grandad was a horrible racist, however, he was brought up in a time where racism was acceptable, like it or not it was. Through life experiences my parents have brought me to knowing the difference between a good person and a bad person regardless of colour so the cycle has been stopped.
Continuing to put a barrier up between different races regardless if the intention is for the good or well-being of an individual will not stop it. Whichever side is doing it needs to stop, then we might see some real changes | | | |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:54 - Dec 2 with 1226 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 22:41 - Dec 2 by Juzzie |
I was on a company wide inclusion course last year and the girl next to me was black and American. She told us about ‘the talk’. I’d never heard of it before, not even in the UK growing up around Ladbroke Grove/Portobello Road in the 70’s and everything going on with the Mangrove and the riots in Brixton, Toxteth, St Pauls, etc which were mainly due to clashes with the police.
It was sad to hear that because of the actions of authoritative figures that at a certain age their parents had to have that talk with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States) |
Never knew about The Talk. Had to look it up.
"According to PBS, the talks usually include instructions such as:
If you are stopped by the police: Always answer 'yes sir, no sir'; never talk back; don’t make any sudden movements; don’t put your hands in your pockets; obey all commands; if you think you are falsely accused, save it for the police station. I would rather pick you up at the station than the morgue…"
– The Talk: Race in America[19]"
That line - "I would rather pick you up at the station than the morgue…"
Jesus, what a Country... | |
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| Anton Ferdinand Documentary on 23:18 - Dec 2 with 1199 views | timcocking |
Christ, people are fcuking thick on average. |  | | |
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