| Time to go? on 19:40 - Jul 8 with 1754 views | D_Alien |
| Time to go? on 15:13 - Jul 8 by ChaffRAFC |
Are you trolling us now?
In my work, if I process an order, my job isn't done until the whole order has been received by the customer, not 3/4 of it!
I suspect Northern Ireland may disagree with you.
Boris got us through Covid as well didn't he? Pretty sure Covid still exists and is in the middle of a fairly big wave. |
No, i'm not trolling
You may not remember, but after the democratic vote to Leave the EU happened in 2016, the Establishment (who i suspect wouldn't normally be your favourite people) spent the next three years trying to block it and force another vote
It took Boris to see it through
I get it that you don't like him, i get it that you're pissed off with what you see as his Tory hyper-privilege in action, but just remember this: the UK was in a constitutional deadlock due to the Establishment and if you think supporting their viewpoint is okay, go ahead. I'll support the view of the great British public who voted for Boris and he duly delivered. The Establishment have been out to get him ever since, and they've won
Is that what you'd prefer to see? The Establishment winning over the voice of the people? Of course, it could be argued Boris used that for his own ends, but do you know what? I couldn't give a shite how it happened, it just needed to happen, and Boris was the ONLY person in the entire UK who could make it happen. For that, he will be remembered, when all the other moralising stuff has been forgotten
To be honest, i'm surprised that someone (anyone) who thinks of themselves as being in favour of "the people" could have it any other way
[Post edited 8 Jul 2022 19:43]
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| Time to go? on 20:20 - Jul 8 with 1678 views | jonahwhereru |
Truth is Johnson has been assassinated by his own character. I have said my bit on here about his failings.
He actually has a more social agenda than Blair ever did. He was the Vivian Nicholls (for those who can remember her) of the Tory party. Levelling up was a great aspiration and could still be a game changer. But as Blair courted middle England and took for granted the northern vote; so leaving up exposes the government to the reverse accusations. People forget that when London Mayor he actually called for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. However he threw his liberal race views on the bonfire of popularism when he repeated some of the worst of Enoch Powell’s river of blood speech.
Sadly he will go to his grave not understanding why the party turned against him. The booing he received at the jubilee celebrations has probably been cast from his mind. It was the people Boris.
He will never be king of the world, but he will earn shed loads more money outside of politics than any of his predecessors. Not sure it will be enough to get all his kids through school mind. |  | | |
| Time to go? on 20:49 - Jul 8 with 1633 views | Mass_Debater |
Didn't most of the country not vote for them. | | | |
| Time to go? on 21:07 - Jul 8 with 1609 views | jonahwhereru |
| Time to go? on 20:49 - Jul 8 by Mass_Debater |
Didn't most of the country not vote for them. |
No, more voted for other parties than voted for them. They got 13 million votes. The mandate of the people line that no 10 was trying to hold a couple of days ago was a myth. | | | |
| Time to go? on 21:20 - Jul 8 with 1581 views | Mass_Debater |
| Time to go? on 21:07 - Jul 8 by jonahwhereru |
No, more voted for other parties than voted for them. They got 13 million votes. The mandate of the people line that no 10 was trying to hold a couple of days ago was a myth. |
So more people voted for others than for them, like I said. | | | |
| Time to go? on 21:28 - Jul 8 with 1560 views | tony_roch975 |
| Time to go? on 21:20 - Jul 8 by Mass_Debater |
So more people voted for others than for them, like I said. |
the curse of double negatives but, yes, Boris + Nigel + UUP etc got less than 48% of the votes cast, a figure which in 2016 was deemed a complete loss - strange how our voting system benefits the establishment ain't it | |
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| Time to go? on 21:39 - Jul 8 with 1540 views | Mass_Debater |
| Time to go? on 21:28 - Jul 8 by tony_roch975 |
the curse of double negatives but, yes, Boris + Nigel + UUP etc got less than 48% of the votes cast, a figure which in 2016 was deemed a complete loss - strange how our voting system benefits the establishment ain't it |
Yep, that's what I was getting at. | | | |
| Time to go? on 22:29 - Jul 8 with 1499 views | jonahwhereru |
| Time to go? on 21:20 - Jul 8 by Mass_Debater |
So more people voted for others than for them, like I said. |
Sorry MD my mistake. | | | |
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| Time to go? on 07:02 - Jul 10 with 1165 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Time to go? on 19:40 - Jul 8 by D_Alien |
No, i'm not trolling
You may not remember, but after the democratic vote to Leave the EU happened in 2016, the Establishment (who i suspect wouldn't normally be your favourite people) spent the next three years trying to block it and force another vote
It took Boris to see it through
I get it that you don't like him, i get it that you're pissed off with what you see as his Tory hyper-privilege in action, but just remember this: the UK was in a constitutional deadlock due to the Establishment and if you think supporting their viewpoint is okay, go ahead. I'll support the view of the great British public who voted for Boris and he duly delivered. The Establishment have been out to get him ever since, and they've won
Is that what you'd prefer to see? The Establishment winning over the voice of the people? Of course, it could be argued Boris used that for his own ends, but do you know what? I couldn't give a shite how it happened, it just needed to happen, and Boris was the ONLY person in the entire UK who could make it happen. For that, he will be remembered, when all the other moralising stuff has been forgotten
To be honest, i'm surprised that someone (anyone) who thinks of themselves as being in favour of "the people" could have it any other way
[Post edited 8 Jul 2022 19:43]
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Not really what happened. In 2017 Theresa May lost her parliamentary majority and relied on DUP support to govern. The upshot was that the negotiated Withdrawal Deal couldn’t pass through the House of Commons. It wasn’t the “Establishment”, whoever they may be, that was the obstacle. Boris Johnson himself voted against it! You may recall that the biggest obstacle for many was the Northern Ireland ‘backstop’. In the end, the EU were happy to push the deal through because Johnson accepted the NI Protocol, which he has subsequently sought to renege on because it does precisely what he said wasn’t going to happen, effectively create a border between NI and ROI. Other than the NI Protocol, there is no difference between Johnson’s Brexit and May’s Withdrawal Deal. [Post edited 10 Jul 2022 7:17]
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| Time to go? on 09:11 - Jul 10 with 1067 views | D_Alien |
| Time to go? on 07:02 - Jul 10 by BigDaveMyCock |
Not really what happened. In 2017 Theresa May lost her parliamentary majority and relied on DUP support to govern. The upshot was that the negotiated Withdrawal Deal couldn’t pass through the House of Commons. It wasn’t the “Establishment”, whoever they may be, that was the obstacle. Boris Johnson himself voted against it! You may recall that the biggest obstacle for many was the Northern Ireland ‘backstop’. In the end, the EU were happy to push the deal through because Johnson accepted the NI Protocol, which he has subsequently sought to renege on because it does precisely what he said wasn’t going to happen, effectively create a border between NI and ROI. Other than the NI Protocol, there is no difference between Johnson’s Brexit and May’s Withdrawal Deal. [Post edited 10 Jul 2022 7:17]
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Ah, good morning Mr BigDave - i've been expecting you!
Yes, a more detailed exposition of events as they unfolded in all their horrific complexity post the referendum result. Still only half the story of course, but i'm not here to quibble about details or interpretations, its history now; i'll just point out for instance that Boris voting against one or more versions of the ill-fated TM Withdrawal Deal demonstrates the nuances of how parliament ended up in the constitutional logjam referred to in my ran... post in reply to Chaff
You know very well what's intended by the "Establishment" which is something of a catch-all for the forces of gravy-train induced inertia in Whitehall, aided and abetted by much of the mainstream media, the BBC being the exemplar extraordinaire
As you also very well know, the upshot of the malign forces brought to bear by the Establishment was the demise of TM and Boris becoming PM with one specific goal - to break the logjam, by whatever means necessary. It was said by all and sundry that acheiving a deal with the EU couldn't be done due to the NI border issue. Its pretty clear that the solution was only ever going to be very imperfect, but (with a demonstration of his intent by way of parliamentary prorogation and facing the Supreme Court) Boris managed a deal with the rest of the EU which now (to your great chagrin) leaves the UK in a position to determine its own laws and conduct its own trade deals with the rest of the world. I say the UK, but its entirely possible that it'll become GB in due course, with a re-united Ireland. The demographics are moving in that direction anyway, so the imperfections of the deal will perhaps simply precipitate what imo will become inevitable over time
I very much doubt there's anyone else in the UK who had the sheer effrontery to acheive that "impossible" deal - the same effrontery thats led to his downfall once he'd outstayed his usefulness to the ruthless election-winning machine
I'll just add one more thing, then stfu (its high summer and jollies beckon). For all that Boris was castigated during the early gut*-wrenching weeks when the pandemic hit, its likely that things would've been far, far worse had parliament still been in the midst of its constitutional muddle, and we did emerge from the scourge that was lockdowns ahead of most other countries. Latest reports indicate that despite the economic hardships we have to find our way through as a result of pandemic financing and now the Ukraine conflict, the GDP of the UK is rising at a better rate than the rest of the G7
* i just had to get a reference to guts in there, for your delectation. Enjoy the sunshine!
[Post edited 10 Jul 2022 11:55]
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