| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 105905 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 14:49 - Jun 12 with 1656 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 16:47 - Jun 11 by essextaxiboy |
IMO that would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory .
The Lib Dems have in their Manifesto an commitment to rejoin the single market asap and a longer term commitment to rejoin the EU . In 2019 under Jo Swinson they vowed to reverse article 50 and cancel Brexit . They lost seats including Swinsons .
Currently polling at 10%. Why dont those who would have preferred to remain (supposedly now 60%) just pile in behind them ? . [Post edited 11 Jun 16:53]
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Think the Lib Dems are totally right to call for us to join the single market. The trade deals Britain has managed on its own are either cut and paste jobs of the ones we had in the EU (as with Japan) or tiny and costing us money (Australia). Meanwhile our trade with Europe - by far our biggest market - has been badly hit. Lots of cost, no benefit six years later.
The Tories know Brexit has been a disaster which is why they aren't even boasting about this one very significant thing they have done.
I understand why Labour aren't talking about it because the right wing media would crucify them but it is depressing because Starmer knows only too well how damaging Brexit has been. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 16:05 - Jun 12 with 1521 views | HAYESBOY |
| General Election Thread on 14:49 - Jun 12 by Stainrod |
Think the Lib Dems are totally right to call for us to join the single market. The trade deals Britain has managed on its own are either cut and paste jobs of the ones we had in the EU (as with Japan) or tiny and costing us money (Australia). Meanwhile our trade with Europe - by far our biggest market - has been badly hit. Lots of cost, no benefit six years later.
The Tories know Brexit has been a disaster which is why they aren't even boasting about this one very significant thing they have done.
I understand why Labour aren't talking about it because the right wing media would crucify them but it is depressing because Starmer knows only too well how damaging Brexit has been. |
To re-join the Single Market it would mean having freedom of movement as well. This seems to be a red line for Brexiteers. I would also say you would need to be part of the Customs Union as well. Another red line.
Lib Dems can state they want to re-join the Single Market but they don't say the other parts out loud, because as you say, the predominantly right wing media would hound them and anyone else proposing re-joining. |  |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
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| General Election Thread on 16:05 - Jun 12 with 1519 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 14:49 - Jun 12 by Stainrod |
Think the Lib Dems are totally right to call for us to join the single market. The trade deals Britain has managed on its own are either cut and paste jobs of the ones we had in the EU (as with Japan) or tiny and costing us money (Australia). Meanwhile our trade with Europe - by far our biggest market - has been badly hit. Lots of cost, no benefit six years later.
The Tories know Brexit has been a disaster which is why they aren't even boasting about this one very significant thing they have done.
I understand why Labour aren't talking about it because the right wing media would crucify them but it is depressing because Starmer knows only too well how damaging Brexit has been. |
Labour are not talking about it because their lead would disappear within days .
If they thought it would get support why not shout it from the rooftops? |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 16:23 - Jun 12 with 1482 views | R_from_afar |
| General Election Thread on 13:33 - Jun 12 by Clive_Anderson |
Sunak with his finger on the pulse as usual with his new tax breaks for landlords idea.
The Greens close behind with the idea of upping taxes even more on the ludicrously ultra wealthy on £50k and above. |
Although levels of taxation are currently at a 70 year high and, according to the IFS:
"Under current government plans, tax revenue is forecast to rise to 37.7% of GDP
by 2027–28. If this happens, it will represent the highest level of tax ever seen in the UK".
Just for balance  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| General Election Thread on 17:08 - Jun 12 with 1396 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 13:33 - Jun 12 by Clive_Anderson |
Sunak with his finger on the pulse as usual with his new tax breaks for landlords idea.
The Greens close behind with the idea of upping taxes even more on the ludicrously ultra wealthy on £50k and above. |
If you earn £50k plus in the UK you're in the top 20% and it would be a progressive taxation. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:17 - Jun 12 with 1374 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 16:05 - Jun 12 by HAYESBOY |
To re-join the Single Market it would mean having freedom of movement as well. This seems to be a red line for Brexiteers. I would also say you would need to be part of the Customs Union as well. Another red line.
Lib Dems can state they want to re-join the Single Market but they don't say the other parts out loud, because as you say, the predominantly right wing media would hound them and anyone else proposing re-joining. |
Yes although the irony is that six years on from Brexit immigration is at record levels and rising.
Even before Brexit just over 50% of our immigration came from outside the EU.
So yes the single market would come with freedom of movement but if any govt of whatever persuasion really wanted to cut down on immigration they could by ending all the other freedom of movement deals we have with the likes of Tunisia and many other countries. But the truth is with an ageing population, sickness levels through the roof and a major skills shortage any govt is going to allow immigration. So if you have immigration you might as well have it from Europe IMHO where the population tends to be better educated and the incomers have been proven to be a net positive to the economy. Plus you then obvs can get the benefit of the single market.
I agree with you about the customs union as well btw - but you can imagine what a field day the Mail etc would have if we rejoined that. I have no doubt that Brexit will eventually be reversed but it will probably have to be in stages and likely take decades. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:23 - Jun 12 with 1347 views | kensalriser |
| General Election Thread on 16:05 - Jun 12 by essextaxiboy |
Labour are not talking about it because their lead would disappear within days .
If they thought it would get support why not shout it from the rooftops? |
Brexit just isn't a factor in this election. The only game in town is getting rid of the Tories. That's it. Anything more is just window dressing. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 17:24 - Jun 12 with 1349 views | derbyhoop |
| General Election Thread on 16:05 - Jun 12 by HAYESBOY |
To re-join the Single Market it would mean having freedom of movement as well. This seems to be a red line for Brexiteers. I would also say you would need to be part of the Customs Union as well. Another red line.
Lib Dems can state they want to re-join the Single Market but they don't say the other parts out loud, because as you say, the predominantly right wing media would hound them and anyone else proposing re-joining. |
Brexit has been a failure and was a Tory encouraged policy. So they don't want to talk about it. Add that Johnson purged Tory remainers.
V all the RW media promotes Brexit so would slaughter any Labour suggestion of Rejoin.
Rejoin won't be an option until all.major parties want to do so. SM = return of FOM. Every chance UK would have to adopt Euro and join Schengen. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| General Election Thread on 17:37 - Jun 12 with 1317 views | Clive_Anderson |
| General Election Thread on 17:08 - Jun 12 by dmm |
If you earn £50k plus in the UK you're in the top 20% and it would be a progressive taxation. |
Well yeah that's because wages are so lousy in the UK.
£50k now is worth what £27k was worth in 2000 with official inflation figures and probably much less in reality. You'd struggle to buy a studio apartment in London for that, I don't think it's a massive salary ready to be taxed to death. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:38 - Jun 12 with 1317 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 17:24 - Jun 12 by derbyhoop |
Brexit has been a failure and was a Tory encouraged policy. So they don't want to talk about it. Add that Johnson purged Tory remainers.
V all the RW media promotes Brexit so would slaughter any Labour suggestion of Rejoin.
Rejoin won't be an option until all.major parties want to do so. SM = return of FOM. Every chance UK would have to adopt Euro and join Schengen. |
Not wanting to re open old differences , but it’s far too early to call it a failure . it could have been so much better if the result had been accepted . Covid has muddied the waters further , 2030 is the earliest it could be assessed. iMO of course | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:45 - Jun 12 with 1307 views | Watford_Ranger |
It was crap, it is crap, it will always be crap but it’s a toxic issue because so much of the electorate are such massive snowflakes about it that they have to either pretend it’s not there or lie that it’s great/going to be great if you just do it the way we want. Labour are far better off not going near it rather than get those who still believe in there being some great Brexit success around the corner upset and flocking back to the party of comforting lies. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 17:49 - Jun 12 with 1292 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 17:23 - Jun 12 by kensalriser |
Brexit just isn't a factor in this election. The only game in town is getting rid of the Tories. That's it. Anything more is just window dressing. |
I want to get rid of the Tories as much as anyone but don't agree Brexit is "window dressing". This country has profound problems, Brexit being one of them, but also chronic productivity failures, lack of investment, massive regional imbalance, lack of a manufacturing base etc etc - yet none of these issues are being discussed at this election. The political parties are ignoring the shit-show that is the reality of Britain in 2024 and to varying degrees pretending its steady as she goes. I can see why Labour is going safety first - they are so far ahead they just want to avoid putting their foot in it - but they haven't prepared the country for what a terrible position the economy is in and that could come back to bite them soon after the election. One way or another any new govt is going to have to either increase tax or slash public spending. It won't be pretty. What really sucks for those of us who are very anti-Tory is that this is probably an incredibly good election for them to lose... | | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:03 - Jun 12 with 1261 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 17:45 - Jun 12 by Watford_Ranger |
It was crap, it is crap, it will always be crap but it’s a toxic issue because so much of the electorate are such massive snowflakes about it that they have to either pretend it’s not there or lie that it’s great/going to be great if you just do it the way we want. Labour are far better off not going near it rather than get those who still believe in there being some great Brexit success around the corner upset and flocking back to the party of comforting lies. |
Even if it is crap or turns out to be so it had to be done .
We were told by the freely elected government of the day that whatever the result was it would be enacted .
There were no caveats about the margin of the result , there were no iillegalities that made the vote null and void . Apart from lies on both sides (unavailability of Cancer drugs was a particular low) it was a free and fair vote . If the young people who’s “ future was stolen “ had voted instead of watching Tipping Point itmay have been different . A life lesson learnt .
The time a democratic vote is just ignored or reversed our democracy is compromised.. IMO | | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:14 - Jun 12 with 1241 views | Watford_Ranger |
| General Election Thread on 18:03 - Jun 12 by essextaxiboy |
Even if it is crap or turns out to be so it had to be done .
We were told by the freely elected government of the day that whatever the result was it would be enacted .
There were no caveats about the margin of the result , there were no iillegalities that made the vote null and void . Apart from lies on both sides (unavailability of Cancer drugs was a particular low) it was a free and fair vote . If the young people who’s “ future was stolen “ had voted instead of watching Tipping Point itmay have been different . A life lesson learnt .
The time a democratic vote is just ignored or reversed our democracy is compromised.. IMO |
No government is bound by a previous one but there’s little to no chance it’ll be overturned for many years because of the ridiculous overreaction there’d be as well as the practical difficulty of going back to what it was. It’s happened and we’ll have to make the best of it. Starmer is right to go nowhere near it at least for now. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 18:59 - Jun 12 with 1176 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 17:37 - Jun 12 by Clive_Anderson |
Well yeah that's because wages are so lousy in the UK.
£50k now is worth what £27k was worth in 2000 with official inflation figures and probably much less in reality. You'd struggle to buy a studio apartment in London for that, I don't think it's a massive salary ready to be taxed to death. |
Sure but someone on £55k would pay an extra £5 per week. Hardly being taxed to death, is it? | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:20 - Jun 12 with 1076 views | HAYESBOY |
| General Election Thread on 17:17 - Jun 12 by Stainrod |
Yes although the irony is that six years on from Brexit immigration is at record levels and rising.
Even before Brexit just over 50% of our immigration came from outside the EU.
So yes the single market would come with freedom of movement but if any govt of whatever persuasion really wanted to cut down on immigration they could by ending all the other freedom of movement deals we have with the likes of Tunisia and many other countries. But the truth is with an ageing population, sickness levels through the roof and a major skills shortage any govt is going to allow immigration. So if you have immigration you might as well have it from Europe IMHO where the population tends to be better educated and the incomers have been proven to be a net positive to the economy. Plus you then obvs can get the benefit of the single market.
I agree with you about the customs union as well btw - but you can imagine what a field day the Mail etc would have if we rejoined that. I have no doubt that Brexit will eventually be reversed but it will probably have to be in stages and likely take decades. |
With you on everything there. I would add that freedom of movement is for EU citizens, it was falsely represented by Farage and his mob as letting anyone in to the country.
Also part being members of the EU, we were part of the Dublin agreement which meant you could send back failed asylum seekers to the country from which they travelled from. That country had to take them back under the agreement. Not now. | |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
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| General Election Thread on 20:35 - Jun 12 with 1055 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 17:49 - Jun 12 by Stainrod |
I want to get rid of the Tories as much as anyone but don't agree Brexit is "window dressing". This country has profound problems, Brexit being one of them, but also chronic productivity failures, lack of investment, massive regional imbalance, lack of a manufacturing base etc etc - yet none of these issues are being discussed at this election. The political parties are ignoring the shit-show that is the reality of Britain in 2024 and to varying degrees pretending its steady as she goes. I can see why Labour is going safety first - they are so far ahead they just want to avoid putting their foot in it - but they haven't prepared the country for what a terrible position the economy is in and that could come back to bite them soon after the election. One way or another any new govt is going to have to either increase tax or slash public spending. It won't be pretty. What really sucks for those of us who are very anti-Tory is that this is probably an incredibly good election for them to lose... |
What I find interesting about the various remainers' posts in this thread is how blinkered they appear to be when it comes to what's happening in Europe.
You all describe Britain in the most dire terms, as if a) that was entirely due to Brexit (of course it isn't), and b) as if European countries were faring so much better (they aren't).
Are you not aware of how Germany is faring economically? According to Theodor Weimer, the head of the Deutsche Börse, Germany is now little more than a “developing country” and its stock market is a “junk shop” selling old tat. There are several key factors in Germany's economic decline, their disastrous energy policy being a key one, but whichever way you cut it, things don't look good for the former European powerhouse. And if Germany is teetering, what does that mean for the rest of Europe? Is this the economic zone you'd like Britain to be tethered to?
It's no surprise that the toxic economic cocktail of decades of inflationary policies, endless borrowing and heavy reliance on immigration have made Europe's economy even more fragile than Britain's, and it's also no surprise that this has led to a massive rise in right-wing populism. If Macron is toppled by National Rally (RN) in the forthcoming elections in France, it could be be part of a tidal wave of political change in the Eurozone, which has already seen right wing parties elected in Italy and Holland recently.
How ironic would it be if the remainers got their wish and Britain rejoined a right wing Europe, that was in the process of rejecting the very things remainers long for?
The certainty that so many have regarding Europe is beginning to look more like idealistic wishful thinking. For my money, an independent Britain is better placed to ride out the forthcoming shockwaves in the global market than one tethered to a foundering Europe. However, if Labour get in with a landslide, they could mire us in the same situation, with the same blinkered ideologies, that seem to me to be akin to a dangerous kind of groupthink.
But I don't fear a massive majority Labour government just for those reasons, I fear that it is in hock to so many radical causes, from its blinkered adherence to the ludicrous idea of 'net zero', to its bizarre championing of trans rights over women's rights, to its cosying up to Islamism in an attempt to appeal to the muslim vote.
There is no doubt the so-called Tories have been an absolute nightmare for this country, but I don't count the Brexit vote as part of that. As others have stated in this thread, that was perhaps the only truly democratic thing that's happened in this country for a long time. I think an independent Britain governed sensibly is the best scenario we could hope for, but I see little likelihood of anyone sensible coming to power in the next election. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 21:02 - Jun 12 with 989 views | Stainrod |
I was clear in my post just now that Britain has other huge problems, not just Brexit...
When you say Britain being "tethered" to Europe, joining the single markets simply means we can trade freely with it - you make it sound like we would be chained to a lead weight and thrown in the Channel to drown.
Yes the vote across some European countries (though far from all) was very worrying to anyone who believes in liberal democracy, whether Remainer or Brexiteer. But lets not exaggerate: the far right got 23% across the EU this time, last time it was 20%.
Let us not be smug in Britain either: "Reform" (what an ironic name) is increasingly popular and when one of their candidates said this week that we should have made peace with Hitler he was defended by an official Reform Party spokesman. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 21:06 - Jun 12 with 968 views | Northernr |
Can we get to the bit where somebody in the Sky call centre has a look into his file and leaks that he was a subscriber all along? WITH MOVIES. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 21:11 - Jun 12 with 948 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 21:06 - Jun 12 by Northernr |
Can we get to the bit where somebody in the Sky call centre has a look into his file and leaks that he was a subscriber all along? WITH MOVIES. |
Hilarious. Am loving some of the stuff on social media, including the crowd funding to get Rishi the Sky subscription he was so cruely denied... | | | |
| General Election Thread on 21:25 - Jun 12 with 913 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 13:27 - Jun 12 by Northernr |
You could redirect police helicopters with the one we had in Grimsby, early 90s I guess. Thing was nearly as big as the house itself. Picture used to break up on a fairly regular basis which could be solved (in my dad's opinion) by taking the viewing card out and blowing on it. |
Well I am with your Dad on that , worked 9 out of 10 times .
Sometimes you had to clean the gold bit with a bit of aftershave . Aramis was best I recall | | | |
| General Election Thread on 21:30 - Jun 12 with 895 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election Thread on 21:02 - Jun 12 by Stainrod |
I was clear in my post just now that Britain has other huge problems, not just Brexit...
When you say Britain being "tethered" to Europe, joining the single markets simply means we can trade freely with it - you make it sound like we would be chained to a lead weight and thrown in the Channel to drown.
Yes the vote across some European countries (though far from all) was very worrying to anyone who believes in liberal democracy, whether Remainer or Brexiteer. But lets not exaggerate: the far right got 23% across the EU this time, last time it was 20%.
Let us not be smug in Britain either: "Reform" (what an ironic name) is increasingly popular and when one of their candidates said this week that we should have made peace with Hitler he was defended by an official Reform Party spokesman. |
They have some right fruitcakes.
Tice said before Farage took over that they basically wait for the media to out the worst ones | | | |
| General Election Thread on 22:21 - Jun 12 with 819 views | QPR_John |
It seems Starmer did not think Labour would win the last election. But I suppose that is consistent as he did not believe in the manifesto as well. Seems he was economical with the truth in 2019 wonder what he is not telling us in 2024. [Post edited 12 Jun 22:22]
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| General Election Thread on 22:27 - Jun 12 with 801 views | QPR_Jim |
| General Election Thread on 22:21 - Jun 12 by QPR_John |
It seems Starmer did not think Labour would win the last election. But I suppose that is consistent as he did not believe in the manifesto as well. Seems he was economical with the truth in 2019 wonder what he is not telling us in 2024. [Post edited 12 Jun 22:22]
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I think he's trying not to tell the public exactly how large a hole the conservatives have put us in, to try and give the country some hope. |  | | |
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