| Ashes thread 18:40 - Oct 9 with 55466 views | BlackCrowe |
Kicks off next month with the news that Cummins is likely out of the first test and possibly most/all of the series. That helps. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 08:22 - Dec 7 with 1164 views | ted_hendrix |
| Ashes thread on 08:15 - Dec 7 by LimehouseR |
If I were Stokes and saw how Atkinson had just given away his wicket after trying to salvage something of the game I would be livid. I know you can't rely on your bowlers but Atkinson can actually bat a bit. But no, gave it away like all the rest, learns nothing. Not saying we would have saved the game but it is lazy cricket. No pride, no grit, just brain dead. |
Next game It will be just the same, exactly the same. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ashes thread on 08:41 - Dec 7 with 1069 views | ozexile |
| Ashes thread on 08:15 - Dec 7 by LimehouseR |
If I were Stokes and saw how Atkinson had just given away his wicket after trying to salvage something of the game I would be livid. I know you can't rely on your bowlers but Atkinson can actually bat a bit. But no, gave it away like all the rest, learns nothing. Not saying we would have saved the game but it is lazy cricket. No pride, no grit, just brain dead. |
Totally dumb. They set him a trap and he duly obliged. Even the Aussie bowlers are now saying they don't even have to bowl well. They know that if they put the ball in certain areas our lemons will get themselves out. [Post edited 7 Dec 9:21]
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| Ashes thread on 08:56 - Dec 7 with 1027 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 08:41 - Dec 7 by ozexile |
Totally dumb. They set him a trap and he duly obliged. Even the Aussie bowlers are now saying they don't even have to bowl well. They know that if they put the ball in certain areas our lemons will get themselves out. [Post edited 7 Dec 9:21]
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There was some discussion about this on C7 commentary during the England batting, where a voice of experience suggested that if you simply leave the balls you don’t need or want to play, then eventually the bowlers will have to change their plan and bowl more to your strengths and provide you with scoring opportunities because they had to adjust - not the batter.
I think it was Ponting that started the discussion and it seemed pretty sensible and appropriate coming from a guy with his test match knowledge, runs and time in the middle against some fairly decent bowlers over the years.
Maybe we could give the guy a job on the coaching staff one day and have Gary Pratt as his assistant, just t0 keep him honest :-) |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 10:22 - Dec 7 with 885 views | ted_hendrix |
'We trained too much' - McCullum
published at 10:18 GMT
10:18 GMT
England head coach Brendon McCullum, speaking to Test Match Special about doing anything differently: "Not from a preparation point of view.
"If anything we trained too much. We had five to 10 training session leading into this game.
"Something as a coach you have to be aware of. Sometimes there is a tendency to overdo things to make up for it.
"As we all know in this game it is played in the top two inches. We all have to find way that we ensure that we feel prepared physically, technically and we are ready for the battle, but also to make sure we are fresh and make sure we can make those decisions in the heat of the games." | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Ashes thread on 10:44 - Dec 7 with 811 views | daveB |
| Ashes thread on 08:15 - Dec 7 by LimehouseR |
If I were Stokes and saw how Atkinson had just given away his wicket after trying to salvage something of the game I would be livid. I know you can't rely on your bowlers but Atkinson can actually bat a bit. But no, gave it away like all the rest, learns nothing. Not saying we would have saved the game but it is lazy cricket. No pride, no grit, just brain dead. |
even if you get the lead upto 100 it was worth sticking around for, make them work for it, as soon as Stokes went they just gave up |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 10:45 - Dec 7 with 809 views | daveB |
| Ashes thread on 10:22 - Dec 7 by ted_hendrix |
'We trained too much' - McCullum
published at 10:18 GMT
10:18 GMT
England head coach Brendon McCullum, speaking to Test Match Special about doing anything differently: "Not from a preparation point of view.
"If anything we trained too much. We had five to 10 training session leading into this game.
"Something as a coach you have to be aware of. Sometimes there is a tendency to overdo things to make up for it.
"As we all know in this game it is played in the top two inches. We all have to find way that we ensure that we feel prepared physically, technically and we are ready for the battle, but also to make sure we are fresh and make sure we can make those decisions in the heat of the games." |
beyond parady now, this team look so under prepeared it is ridiculous. Only bowled 76 overs in the first innings and looked dead on their feet | | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:00 - Dec 7 with 766 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes thread on 10:45 - Dec 7 by daveB |
beyond parady now, this team look so under prepeared it is ridiculous. Only bowled 76 overs in the first innings and looked dead on their feet |
The experts reckon that it tires bowlers out more to bowl short rather than proper bowling like the Aussies have done.Our bowlers overdid the short stuff at the Gabba in the one innings we bowled. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:35 - Dec 7 with 667 views | TGRRRSSS |
I am curious why Wood wanted to drive from Perth to Brisbane?
Can't be that dim surely?
On the subject if which taking him seemed odd in itself.
Australia not a place for getting match fitness |  | | |
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| Ashes thread on 11:36 - Dec 7 with 666 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Ashes thread on 08:56 - Dec 7 by Rsole |
There was some discussion about this on C7 commentary during the England batting, where a voice of experience suggested that if you simply leave the balls you don’t need or want to play, then eventually the bowlers will have to change their plan and bowl more to your strengths and provide you with scoring opportunities because they had to adjust - not the batter.
I think it was Ponting that started the discussion and it seemed pretty sensible and appropriate coming from a guy with his test match knowledge, runs and time in the middle against some fairly decent bowlers over the years.
Maybe we could give the guy a job on the coaching staff one day and have Gary Pratt as his assistant, just t0 keep him honest :-) |
This first paragraph is perfect sense and its hardly rocket science. Block anything that may hint at a wicket and make the bowlers rethink. Any cricket fan and even amateur player knows it. I had it drilled into me at school.
I am seriously done with this team in truth. When I got up and saw that Jacks and Stokes had hung around for a session, my opinion slightly changed. But all we had to do was hang around till the last session and THEN have a bowl at them. Oh no, Atkinson (who we know can bat) decided he wasn't up for that.
But I stand by my earlier thoughts. We lost this due to poor bowling and even worse poor fielding. At this standard you cannot drop 5 regulation catches in one innings and expect to win the match.
And I have just read what Ted posted from McCullum, overtrained my arse!! Complete T**t that bloke (Brendon not Ted) |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 12:22 - Dec 7 with 550 views | CiderwithRsie |
There was a great little interview with Darren Lehmann on TMS in the final interval and while he is very much not my favourite person in cricket he was very sensible on England. Almost sounded like a job application tbh. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 12:52 - Dec 7 with 494 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 11:36 - Dec 7 by Superhoops2808 |
This first paragraph is perfect sense and its hardly rocket science. Block anything that may hint at a wicket and make the bowlers rethink. Any cricket fan and even amateur player knows it. I had it drilled into me at school.
I am seriously done with this team in truth. When I got up and saw that Jacks and Stokes had hung around for a session, my opinion slightly changed. But all we had to do was hang around till the last session and THEN have a bowl at them. Oh no, Atkinson (who we know can bat) decided he wasn't up for that.
But I stand by my earlier thoughts. We lost this due to poor bowling and even worse poor fielding. At this standard you cannot drop 5 regulation catches in one innings and expect to win the match.
And I have just read what Ted posted from McCullum, overtrained my arse!! Complete T**t that bloke (Brendon not Ted) |
We are yet to have taken even close to 20 wickets in one test and won’t win until we do so, so it’s not just the batting that is the issue.
Share your frustration(s) with the application all round. I think we have a reasonable team with a small but strong nucleus of talented players but the decision making and execution under any form of limited pressure has been appalling.
When I heard over-prepared, I was a little surprised. I think it’s way more basic - we have simply over complicated pretty much everything in terms of the basics, which have been forgotten or thrown away - because it’s ok getting out just as long as you were being the best version of yourself at the time and doing what you think you should do.
Even Root joined in with the stupidity for the second innings.
As with most things in life, if you are the best at what you do in your role, just do your job and things will be fine. Try to be something else and shit will typically follow.
That’s why I need mess around with electrics….or DIY of any form. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Dec 7 with 372 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes thread on 14:32 - Dec 6 by Rsole |
Here’s the thing that bemuses me the most….our best Test batsman (ever) does not play the same way as everyone else. That’s who they should be modelling themselves on.
Two of the best Test bowlers we have produced - ever - only just retired and should be the models for the younger bowlers. They never bowled with extreme pace or tried bouncing anyone out - neither did Pigeon or any of the three current Aussie bowlers.
Bloody hell - Nathan Lyon has made a Test career as a spinner that offers some control….it can’t be that difficult. We have to go back to Swanny for a Test quality spinner, but we are choosing to send Bashir on tour and then he isn’t selected anyway. |
"Bloody hell - Nathan Lyon has made a Test career as a spinner that offers some control….it can’t be that difficult. We have to go back to Swanny for a Test quality spinner, but we are choosing to send Bashir on tour and then he isn’t selected anyway".
If England ever ends up with another truly world class spinner, it will be more by luck than by judgement. It's a department we have neglected for years, possibly out of ignorance. There's a lot more to spin bowling than just making the ball turn. Flight, change of pace, arm balls... It really is an art. I was a spin bowler and only played to university level but I can remember a game in which I took six wickets; one of the opposition said: "You got six wickets but none of the balls you bowled at me turned!"
Another consideration is that some batters hate facing spinners; there's no pace on the ball, so it's not easy to misfit runs unless you take an almighty great swing. Some batters completely lose their discipline when a spinner comes on and throw their wicket away.
I really don't understand why the England test set up does so little to encourage front line spinners, only to end up asking part time bowlers to fill the spin void in key test matches. We're missing a trick  . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ashes thread on 15:10 - Dec 7 with 335 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Dec 7 by R_from_afar |
"Bloody hell - Nathan Lyon has made a Test career as a spinner that offers some control….it can’t be that difficult. We have to go back to Swanny for a Test quality spinner, but we are choosing to send Bashir on tour and then he isn’t selected anyway".
If England ever ends up with another truly world class spinner, it will be more by luck than by judgement. It's a department we have neglected for years, possibly out of ignorance. There's a lot more to spin bowling than just making the ball turn. Flight, change of pace, arm balls... It really is an art. I was a spin bowler and only played to university level but I can remember a game in which I took six wickets; one of the opposition said: "You got six wickets but none of the balls you bowled at me turned!"
Another consideration is that some batters hate facing spinners; there's no pace on the ball, so it's not easy to misfit runs unless you take an almighty great swing. Some batters completely lose their discipline when a spinner comes on and throw their wicket away.
I really don't understand why the England test set up does so little to encourage front line spinners, only to end up asking part time bowlers to fill the spin void in key test matches. We're missing a trick . |
We dont have a spinner is quite simple really
We play red ball in April and September, you wont find much spinning then
Thats why any decent spinners we have are all white ball players | | | |
| Ashes thread on 15:15 - Dec 7 with 326 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Dec 7 by R_from_afar |
"Bloody hell - Nathan Lyon has made a Test career as a spinner that offers some control….it can’t be that difficult. We have to go back to Swanny for a Test quality spinner, but we are choosing to send Bashir on tour and then he isn’t selected anyway".
If England ever ends up with another truly world class spinner, it will be more by luck than by judgement. It's a department we have neglected for years, possibly out of ignorance. There's a lot more to spin bowling than just making the ball turn. Flight, change of pace, arm balls... It really is an art. I was a spin bowler and only played to university level but I can remember a game in which I took six wickets; one of the opposition said: "You got six wickets but none of the balls you bowled at me turned!"
Another consideration is that some batters hate facing spinners; there's no pace on the ball, so it's not easy to misfit runs unless you take an almighty great swing. Some batters completely lose their discipline when a spinner comes on and throw their wicket away.
I really don't understand why the England test set up does so little to encourage front line spinners, only to end up asking part time bowlers to fill the spin void in key test matches. We're missing a trick . |
We have a spin coach :-)
And I agree, there’s a lot more to it than most expect, especially the drift.
When you watch the Gatting ball back again, Warne’s drift was even more outrageous than the spin.
Almost as good as his regular reinventions of the same delivery with a new name !!! Master of the mind and ball tricks that man. Not too shoddy with the bat and on Comms either. Cricket misses characters like that. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 19:33 - Dec 7 with 154 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes thread on 15:15 - Dec 7 by Rsole |
We have a spin coach :-)
And I agree, there’s a lot more to it than most expect, especially the drift.
When you watch the Gatting ball back again, Warne’s drift was even more outrageous than the spin.
Almost as good as his regular reinventions of the same delivery with a new name !!! Master of the mind and ball tricks that man. Not too shoddy with the bat and on Comms either. Cricket misses characters like that. |
Haha, you flatter me! 
My favourite story about spinners was told by the great South African batter Barry Richards. As an up and coming player, he ended up playing a match against a team featuring an established Richie Benaud.
Richards knew Benaud was a very decent player, so imagine his delight when Benaud's first ball to him was a long hop. He duly pulled it for four.
It was the same story for the next ball: Another half tracker, which Richards gleefully steered to the fence.
The third ball pitched in a similar spot, and, scarcely able to believe his luck, Richards shaped to play another pull, only to hear the ball clatter into his stumps before he had the chance to complete his shot. Richie had bowled him a couple of pies followed by an evil top spinner. [Post edited 7 Dec 22:09]
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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