| Not A Penny More 22:28 - Sep 21 with 4171 views | basilrobbiereborn |
….. 294 there yesterday. Perhaps it should be re-named Not A Penny Full Stop.  |  |
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| Not A Penny More on 22:49 - Sep 22 with 1285 views | Rusty2Stands |
| Not A Penny More on 22:31 - Sep 22 by basilrobbiereborn |
You're a bit tetchy tonight Pete. |
Still taking the morale high ground as some sort of super fan I see.
Still looking down on those not worthy of your superior company.
And still defending the family who are piece by piece dismantling a once proud football.
Some things never change.
It's all a bit sad, and a bit tragic. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 22:58 - Sep 22 with 1279 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| Not A Penny More on 22:49 - Sep 22 by Rusty2Stands |
Still taking the morale high ground as some sort of super fan I see.
Still looking down on those not worthy of your superior company.
And still defending the family who are piece by piece dismantling a once proud football.
Some things never change.
It's all a bit sad, and a bit tragic. |
Wow, you've inferred a lot from a couple of posts, haven't you?
I've never claimed to be a super fan. As for defending the Oystons, my advice would be to read what I've written a bit more carefully. The only sad and tragic thing here is your insistence on having a go at me without doing me the basic courtesy of thinking about what I've had to say. | |
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| Not A Penny More on 23:06 - Sep 22 with 1277 views | PNENIL |
| Not A Penny More on 22:15 - Sep 22 by basilrobbiereborn |
SATW
he'd managed a Championship club for what ? Sixteen games? Think you are doing a bit of over-egging there.
Why has he acted in the way he has? None of us know for sure. But it may just be possible that he knows that his side of the bath isn't squeaky clean either. But your construction is equally plausible, and I'd hate to have people think I said otherwise.
Your twenty years analogy is a bit daft, if you don't mind me saying so. Twenty years ago we were in the L1 doldrums and showing no signs of getting out. Something haas been working at least some of the time since. If we are not careful we are both going to be selective with history and prove nothing to anyone.
On agents, I deliberately didn't say that KO was right all of the time. He clearly isn't. Nor did I suggest he was some kind of paragon. He isn't that either. What I do say is that if he doesn't trust the average football agent as far as he can throw them, i don't blame him. Does it get in the way of business? Of course it does, some of the time. Do I think he's right, on balance, to play the game by his rules? Yes, I probably do. Agents represent two parties - themselves, and their client. Blackpool FC features nowhere in their calculation - Karl is there to do that.
As for your last paragraph - I take your point entirely, but it is their football club, in law, if not in spirit. That means that if they want to remove monies, they can, and no amount of moral outrage will change that. Especially when it comes from people who only go to watch when they get a freebie, or who don't go at all. You know the kind of people I mean. |
Just an honest question to you Robbie.
When you look how we are struggling at the moment on and off the field , the lack of a legacy from the premiership and the probability that we are heading back to league one...... does it not really get to you that they have taken all that money out and run the club so shambolically? However much it may be legal surely it must annoy you?
Another question to you . Just what are you supporting at the moment ? A name ? A tangerine shirt ? what? The soul has been ripped out of the club and there is nothing left right now to hold on to . We have a bunch of players that wont be here longer than a year and it shows how desperate people are to have made Riga some kind of hero. There is nobody left at the club in any way shape or form that you would want to stand behind. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 23:12 - Sep 22 with 1268 views | hertfordseasider |
| Not A Penny More on 23:06 - Sep 22 by PNENIL |
Just an honest question to you Robbie.
When you look how we are struggling at the moment on and off the field , the lack of a legacy from the premiership and the probability that we are heading back to league one...... does it not really get to you that they have taken all that money out and run the club so shambolically? However much it may be legal surely it must annoy you?
Another question to you . Just what are you supporting at the moment ? A name ? A tangerine shirt ? what? The soul has been ripped out of the club and there is nothing left right now to hold on to . We have a bunch of players that wont be here longer than a year and it shows how desperate people are to have made Riga some kind of hero. There is nobody left at the club in any way shape or form that you would want to stand behind. |
Some pertinent stuff in there Nil, and hard to dismiss, sadly. |  | | |
| Not A Penny More on 23:14 - Sep 22 with 1268 views | Nazzer |
| Not A Penny More on 22:58 - Sep 22 by basilrobbiereborn |
Wow, you've inferred a lot from a couple of posts, haven't you?
I've never claimed to be a super fan. As for defending the Oystons, my advice would be to read what I've written a bit more carefully. The only sad and tragic thing here is your insistence on having a go at me without doing me the basic courtesy of thinking about what I've had to say. |
You are a COCK | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 08:37 - Sep 23 with 1213 views | Wizaard |
| Not A Penny More on 23:14 - Sep 22 by Nazzer |
You are a COCK |
Good to see reasoned debate is not dead. |  | | |
| Not A Penny More on 08:38 - Sep 23 with 1213 views | Lytham_FY8 |
| Not A Penny More on 23:12 - Sep 22 by hertfordseasider |
Some pertinent stuff in there Nil, and hard to dismiss, sadly. |
I'm sure Bazzle will ignore it though, he tends to hide when it gets a bit tricky. The OP is part of the reason I can't be bothered posting on here or the real site anymore. Life is too short to argue with idiots. 'Reasoned' debate appears to be everyone having a pop at everyone else and then taking the moral high ground because you went to what is for locals who didn't abandon the area, a very very long trip. It's not as if the OP makes any sense, it's just a cheap shot, which Bazzle tends to deal exclusively in.
With 'supporters' like him, we have the club we deserve, he's welcome to it. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 8:43]
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| "The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"
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| Not A Penny More on 08:42 - Sep 23 with 1208 views | Wizaard |
| Not A Penny More on 22:38 - Sep 22 by hertfordseasider |
Not at all Robbie, in fact I said your earlier post was the best for a long time and I agreed with most of it. I just get irked with the "those that don't go" jibe, as you know, and i wasn't thinking of myself here, I don't care what people think about me, I have tangerine blood I know where I stand, but a lot of people don't go and I just think that continued attack is below the belt and doesn't do the debate any favours. But hey, we have been down this road a lot of times over the years and I am sure it will crop up again!
Good debate between you and Straighters, I agree with both of you on some points and disagree with others. |
Pete
From a personal perspective, the thing that irks me is being lectured about how I should be boycotting games by people who didn't go that often even when we were flying.
Just for clarity, I would never include you in that category. | | | |
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| Not A Penny More on 10:25 - Sep 23 with 1196 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| Not A Penny More on 08:38 - Sep 23 by Lytham_FY8 |
I'm sure Bazzle will ignore it though, he tends to hide when it gets a bit tricky. The OP is part of the reason I can't be bothered posting on here or the real site anymore. Life is too short to argue with idiots. 'Reasoned' debate appears to be everyone having a pop at everyone else and then taking the moral high ground because you went to what is for locals who didn't abandon the area, a very very long trip. It's not as if the OP makes any sense, it's just a cheap shot, which Bazzle tends to deal exclusively in.
With 'supporters' like him, we have the club we deserve, he's welcome to it. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 8:43]
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Lytham
I'll confess that the OP was a bit tongue in cheek. But there was a serious point underlying it. All summer there has been a certain section of our support which has been lecturing those of us who bought season tickets about the folly of our ways. We were told that we were part of the problem by lining the pockets of the Evil Empire, and other such guff.
Those same people told us that the real statement of principle would be to shun home games and only spend money at the grounds of other clubs. The clear inference was that they would be doing just that to make a point. I'm merely saying that Shrewsbury apart, our away support has been down on last season - so where are they? I'd hate to think this was another example of talk being cheap.
As for the VERY cheap shot about "abandoning the area" - is that what you really think? I think you're better than that. It's the kind of thing I'd expect from the bloke who lives in Blackpool, supports Leeds and makes the very same point without even a hint of irony. | |
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| Not A Penny More on 11:39 - Sep 23 with 1179 views | FY4MIKEH |
| Not A Penny More on 22:38 - Sep 22 by hertfordseasider |
Not at all Robbie, in fact I said your earlier post was the best for a long time and I agreed with most of it. I just get irked with the "those that don't go" jibe, as you know, and i wasn't thinking of myself here, I don't care what people think about me, I have tangerine blood I know where I stand, but a lot of people don't go and I just think that continued attack is below the belt and doesn't do the debate any favours. But hey, we have been down this road a lot of times over the years and I am sure it will crop up again!
Good debate between you and Straighters, I agree with both of you on some points and disagree with others. |
Good debate lads. Liked the not a penny more full stop remark. Made me chuckle. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 11:59 - Sep 23 with 1168 views | Lala |
| Not A Penny More on 11:39 - Sep 23 by FY4MIKEH |
Good debate lads. Liked the not a penny more full stop remark. Made me chuckle. |
Great debate guys - not seen that in a while..  |  |
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| Not A Penny More on 12:13 - Sep 23 with 1151 views | Lytham_FY8 |
| Not A Penny More on 10:25 - Sep 23 by basilrobbiereborn |
Lytham
I'll confess that the OP was a bit tongue in cheek. But there was a serious point underlying it. All summer there has been a certain section of our support which has been lecturing those of us who bought season tickets about the folly of our ways. We were told that we were part of the problem by lining the pockets of the Evil Empire, and other such guff.
Those same people told us that the real statement of principle would be to shun home games and only spend money at the grounds of other clubs. The clear inference was that they would be doing just that to make a point. I'm merely saying that Shrewsbury apart, our away support has been down on last season - so where are they? I'd hate to think this was another example of talk being cheap.
As for the VERY cheap shot about "abandoning the area" - is that what you really think? I think you're better than that. It's the kind of thing I'd expect from the bloke who lives in Blackpool, supports Leeds and makes the very same point without even a hint of irony. |
Fair play Bazzle, it was a cheap shot, I think it's because I've got a blocked sink  | |
| "The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"
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| Not A Penny More on 12:23 - Sep 23 with 1135 views | PNENIL |
| Not A Penny More on 12:14 - Sep 23 by Plumbs |
As ever when the debate starts to show BRRs hypocrisy,he suggests his comments were tongue in cheek. Many people in the town cant afford the luxury of long away trips,nor of wasting money watching a club fail to back up the loyal support of its fans-no excuses with PL millions stashed away.
He's out of touch with the town and the impact that people like the Os are having,and the irony of whats happening in the place where he was brought ie Fleetwood up is clearly lost on him.
Thats a bloke who chirps on about supporting the community and the local club,but who goes to the one down the road yet oays his Council Tax to Millwall. You just couldnt make it up. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 12:16]
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I noticed my question wasn't answered either. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 12:47 - Sep 23 with 1116 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| Not A Penny More on 23:06 - Sep 22 by PNENIL |
Just an honest question to you Robbie.
When you look how we are struggling at the moment on and off the field , the lack of a legacy from the premiership and the probability that we are heading back to league one...... does it not really get to you that they have taken all that money out and run the club so shambolically? However much it may be legal surely it must annoy you?
Another question to you . Just what are you supporting at the moment ? A name ? A tangerine shirt ? what? The soul has been ripped out of the club and there is nothing left right now to hold on to . We have a bunch of players that wont be here longer than a year and it shows how desperate people are to have made Riga some kind of hero. There is nobody left at the club in any way shape or form that you would want to stand behind. |
Nil
sorry, I wasn't ignoring your questions, I'd just overlooked them.
On Q1, I think that you make some fair points and this is the real area of weakness for the Oystons. I think they have done a reasonable job for most of their tenure, but none of us would pretend that they've managed the club well post-PL, and for me the rot set in once Holloway went at the time and in the manner that he did. I don't begrudge them a dividend (though I wouldn't have removed as much as they did without a proper explanation). But at the moment prudence looks a lot like hand to mouth. And I'm frustrated by it.
On Q2, I understand the sentiment, but I've always supported the club as an institution, and followed the shirt, rather than necessarily focussing on individuals. I love the heroes we've had as much as anyone, and I still revere the likes of Suddick and Green. But individuals come and go, the club doesn't.
That might sound like splitting hairs, but it isn't. When I was a kid, the players were remote gods. Since I became an adult, I've very largely lived and worked away from home, and they have still been remote figures. Ditto the people who own and/or manage the club. I identify with them far less than I do with the club that represents the town I was born in. They (the people) disappoint me quite a lot, some of the time, but that's true of people in all walks of life. It doesn't stop me loving the club and it doesn't particularly affect my passion for it. I love it as it is, AS WELL AS hoping for better.
I hope that makes some sense as it is a difficult feeling to articulate. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 12:50]
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| Not A Penny More on 20:31 - Sep 23 with 1044 views | PNENIL |
| Not A Penny More on 12:47 - Sep 23 by basilrobbiereborn |
Nil
sorry, I wasn't ignoring your questions, I'd just overlooked them.
On Q1, I think that you make some fair points and this is the real area of weakness for the Oystons. I think they have done a reasonable job for most of their tenure, but none of us would pretend that they've managed the club well post-PL, and for me the rot set in once Holloway went at the time and in the manner that he did. I don't begrudge them a dividend (though I wouldn't have removed as much as they did without a proper explanation). But at the moment prudence looks a lot like hand to mouth. And I'm frustrated by it.
On Q2, I understand the sentiment, but I've always supported the club as an institution, and followed the shirt, rather than necessarily focussing on individuals. I love the heroes we've had as much as anyone, and I still revere the likes of Suddick and Green. But individuals come and go, the club doesn't.
That might sound like splitting hairs, but it isn't. When I was a kid, the players were remote gods. Since I became an adult, I've very largely lived and worked away from home, and they have still been remote figures. Ditto the people who own and/or manage the club. I identify with them far less than I do with the club that represents the town I was born in. They (the people) disappoint me quite a lot, some of the time, but that's true of people in all walks of life. It doesn't stop me loving the club and it doesn't particularly affect my passion for it. I love it as it is, AS WELL AS hoping for better.
I hope that makes some sense as it is a difficult feeling to articulate. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 12:50]
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Yes that does make some sense , thanks for the considered reply. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 00:23 - Sep 24 with 1011 views | straightatthewall |
| Not A Penny More on 12:47 - Sep 23 by basilrobbiereborn |
Nil
sorry, I wasn't ignoring your questions, I'd just overlooked them.
On Q1, I think that you make some fair points and this is the real area of weakness for the Oystons. I think they have done a reasonable job for most of their tenure, but none of us would pretend that they've managed the club well post-PL, and for me the rot set in once Holloway went at the time and in the manner that he did. I don't begrudge them a dividend (though I wouldn't have removed as much as they did without a proper explanation). But at the moment prudence looks a lot like hand to mouth. And I'm frustrated by it.
On Q2, I understand the sentiment, but I've always supported the club as an institution, and followed the shirt, rather than necessarily focussing on individuals. I love the heroes we've had as much as anyone, and I still revere the likes of Suddick and Green. But individuals come and go, the club doesn't.
That might sound like splitting hairs, but it isn't. When I was a kid, the players were remote gods. Since I became an adult, I've very largely lived and worked away from home, and they have still been remote figures. Ditto the people who own and/or manage the club. I identify with them far less than I do with the club that represents the town I was born in. They (the people) disappoint me quite a lot, some of the time, but that's true of people in all walks of life. It doesn't stop me loving the club and it doesn't particularly affect my passion for it. I love it as it is, AS WELL AS hoping for better.
I hope that makes some sense as it is a difficult feeling to articulate. [Post edited 23 Sep 2014 12:50]
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So for the sake of clarity, have you joined the trust yet? |  |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Not A Penny More on 07:11 - Sep 24 with 991 views | AlainBstard |
Robbie
Have read most of your comments on this thread and I am afraid they just do not match up.
You clearly and correctly point out that as chairman of BFK, KOKO can and does take out of the club whatever he likes on behalf of the family.
The manager was appointed by him and as I understand it, he approves the signings of all the players.
In this scenario of total control he must be given and accept 100% of the blame. He interviewed Riga, he appointed him, he agreed his contract. The continuation of Riga as manager is also down to him.
ALL the blame for our present struggle lies 100% with the decision maker ! | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 11:41 - Sep 24 with 962 views | seasider81 |
| Not A Penny More on 07:11 - Sep 24 by AlainBstard |
Robbie
Have read most of your comments on this thread and I am afraid they just do not match up.
You clearly and correctly point out that as chairman of BFK, KOKO can and does take out of the club whatever he likes on behalf of the family.
The manager was appointed by him and as I understand it, he approves the signings of all the players.
In this scenario of total control he must be given and accept 100% of the blame. He interviewed Riga, he appointed him, he agreed his contract. The continuation of Riga as manager is also down to him.
ALL the blame for our present struggle lies 100% with the decision maker ! |
Even if Riga was partially to blame, why doesn't Karl sack him then in the bests interests of the club? We all know why and compensation is more important to him than the success of the football club.
Whichever way you look at it, Karl is to blame as ultimately, he is the decision maker.
Our club is one big joke at present and it's no wonder fans would rather go shopping with their Mrs. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 12:00 - Sep 24 with 958 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| Not A Penny More on 00:23 - Sep 24 by straightatthewall |
So for the sake of clarity, have you joined the trust yet? |
SATW
you should never ask a question when you already know the answer.  | |
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| Not A Penny More on 13:28 - Sep 24 with 933 views | HarryHorse |
| Not A Penny More on 22:38 - Sep 22 by hertfordseasider |
Not at all Robbie, in fact I said your earlier post was the best for a long time and I agreed with most of it. I just get irked with the "those that don't go" jibe, as you know, and i wasn't thinking of myself here, I don't care what people think about me, I have tangerine blood I know where I stand, but a lot of people don't go and I just think that continued attack is below the belt and doesn't do the debate any favours. But hey, we have been down this road a lot of times over the years and I am sure it will crop up again!
Good debate between you and Straighters, I agree with both of you on some points and disagree with others. |
"As for your last paragraph - I take your point entirely, but it is their football club, in law, if not in spirit. That means that if they want to remove monies, they can, and no amount of moral outrage will change that. Especially when it comes from people who only go to watch when they get a freebie, or who don't go at all. You know the kind of people I mean."
Well done Robbie , you have elicited a post from me . Your last paragraph explains exactly the reason why I am not going anymore.If we have owners who want to remove monies some of which I expect to be used for the betterment of the club, I have no interest in contributing to them. I expected the club to change and for some of the windfall to help establish us in the championship . It hasn't and if the same scenario ever happened again I see no reason why the outcome would not also be exactly the same .
I've realised that there is no ambition from the boardroom other than to finish 4th bottom of the Championship . I no longer see the point of going , it is time and cash consuming . I miss the people I've got to know over the years but in the days when I did go more regularly (mostly the bottom two divisions) it was with hope for betterment and that everyone at the club was pulling in the same direction . Now I know they are not it has destroyed the very fabric of hope & dreams that ran through me as a football fan .
Obviously we are all different and I was going to explain this to you over a pint one day but as I now fully expect not to see a game at all this season (and that hasn't happened for 43 years) I suspect that pint is unlikely any time soon . | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 18:00 - Sep 24 with 890 views | straightatthewall |
| Not A Penny More on 13:28 - Sep 24 by HarryHorse |
"As for your last paragraph - I take your point entirely, but it is their football club, in law, if not in spirit. That means that if they want to remove monies, they can, and no amount of moral outrage will change that. Especially when it comes from people who only go to watch when they get a freebie, or who don't go at all. You know the kind of people I mean."
Well done Robbie , you have elicited a post from me . Your last paragraph explains exactly the reason why I am not going anymore.If we have owners who want to remove monies some of which I expect to be used for the betterment of the club, I have no interest in contributing to them. I expected the club to change and for some of the windfall to help establish us in the championship . It hasn't and if the same scenario ever happened again I see no reason why the outcome would not also be exactly the same .
I've realised that there is no ambition from the boardroom other than to finish 4th bottom of the Championship . I no longer see the point of going , it is time and cash consuming . I miss the people I've got to know over the years but in the days when I did go more regularly (mostly the bottom two divisions) it was with hope for betterment and that everyone at the club was pulling in the same direction . Now I know they are not it has destroyed the very fabric of hope & dreams that ran through me as a football fan .
Obviously we are all different and I was going to explain this to you over a pint one day but as I now fully expect not to see a game at all this season (and that hasn't happened for 43 years) I suspect that pint is unlikely any time soon . |
Good to see you getting 'stuck in' on this one HH.
I think you raise one of the key points about this whole scenario. I've always said that people like Robbie and Wiz are admirable in their outlook of supporting Blackpool, but they are also pretty rare and reflective of the wider fan base. It's no good saying things like 'if people turn their backs at the first sign of trouble...etc....etc.....' that doesn't wash, because it's avoiding the true issues in favour of a very isolated stand point in my view.
As you say, hope is vital to all football clubs and their supporters. Right now, we have a business model that seems to work on the basis of 'well you get to watch a match every other week, so whats your problem?' The notion that people might actually want to see their club compete during those games seems to have been forgotten. It's bookmarked by ridiculous policies that effectively give up any chance of winning games in the first month or so of a season for the sake of saving some money. Fine if you're an accountant making decisions on risk against reward, but thoroughly depressing if you're hoping to see your club try and win a game or 2 because it's in a sporting competition.
I've become a serial moaner on most forums and it's frustration and anger that has brought this about. I can cope with my club not being good enough to win games or even stay in divisions. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's the fact that we are doing it almost willingly that is a eating away at me and makes it a point of anger rather than sadness. | |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Not A Penny More on 18:44 - Sep 24 with 869 views | hertfordseasider |
| Not A Penny More on 13:28 - Sep 24 by HarryHorse |
"As for your last paragraph - I take your point entirely, but it is their football club, in law, if not in spirit. That means that if they want to remove monies, they can, and no amount of moral outrage will change that. Especially when it comes from people who only go to watch when they get a freebie, or who don't go at all. You know the kind of people I mean."
Well done Robbie , you have elicited a post from me . Your last paragraph explains exactly the reason why I am not going anymore.If we have owners who want to remove monies some of which I expect to be used for the betterment of the club, I have no interest in contributing to them. I expected the club to change and for some of the windfall to help establish us in the championship . It hasn't and if the same scenario ever happened again I see no reason why the outcome would not also be exactly the same .
I've realised that there is no ambition from the boardroom other than to finish 4th bottom of the Championship . I no longer see the point of going , it is time and cash consuming . I miss the people I've got to know over the years but in the days when I did go more regularly (mostly the bottom two divisions) it was with hope for betterment and that everyone at the club was pulling in the same direction . Now I know they are not it has destroyed the very fabric of hope & dreams that ran through me as a football fan .
Obviously we are all different and I was going to explain this to you over a pint one day but as I now fully expect not to see a game at all this season (and that hasn't happened for 43 years) I suspect that pint is unlikely any time soon . |
Perfectly put Harry, it is for exactly those reasons. I wish I could have put it so well myself. Sad though the message is. | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 21:14 - Sep 24 with 838 views | the_stockport_one |
| Not A Penny More on 18:44 - Sep 24 by hertfordseasider |
Perfectly put Harry, it is for exactly those reasons. I wish I could have put it so well myself. Sad though the message is. |
Thanks for the dig BRR
I will understasnd when my boss tells me to go to work i will counter with ..... Basil wants me to go to Brighton in order for me to have a voice on anything regarding BFC...!!!!
Obviously work pays the bills so that comes before anything....
That said ....See You At Boro ......
As for not a penny more .... some of us through no fault of there own are in the not a penny more to the O's wether we like it or not....
How do we get judged ?
DEFEND THE STOCKPORT ONE | | | |
| Not A Penny More on 21:21 - Sep 24 with 834 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| Not A Penny More on 21:14 - Sep 24 by the_stockport_one |
Thanks for the dig BRR
I will understasnd when my boss tells me to go to work i will counter with ..... Basil wants me to go to Brighton in order for me to have a voice on anything regarding BFC...!!!!
Obviously work pays the bills so that comes before anything....
That said ....See You At Boro ......
As for not a penny more .... some of us through no fault of there own are in the not a penny more to the O's wether we like it or not....
How do we get judged ?
DEFEND THE STOCKPORT ONE |
TSO
I think you are missing the point I was making, but never mind. [Post edited 24 Sep 2014 22:35]
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