| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 23:12 - Oct 31 with 1161 views | ribble |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 22:54 - Oct 31 by Curryman |
I accept your argument Ribble, and we tend to look at things of yesteryear in today's light. It must not be forgotten that wireless was in it's infancy at the start of the war making command of so many troops difficult if not impossible and battles with so many participants had not been experienced prior to the outbreak. Some of the early casualties on both German and French sides were eye watering and made the Somme look like a minor skirmish in some ways. However, I couldn't resist the title as it summed up what I was trying to portray in my essay. |
You're quite right to highlight communications. What people forget, or don't realise, is that the major set piece attacks were in fact meticulously planned on timescales detailed down to the minute. Unfortunately, once the troops went over the top it was practically impossible to adjust to an adverse situation as the information getting back was often hours out of date, so the timetable rolled on regardless. The first day of the Somme is a classic, and tragic, example.
And yes, some of the losses sustained by the German and French Generals in the early weeks and months of the war do begger belief. [Post edited 31 Oct 2014 23:29]
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| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 01:56 - Nov 1 with 1125 views | Osbourne |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 23:12 - Oct 31 by ribble |
You're quite right to highlight communications. What people forget, or don't realise, is that the major set piece attacks were in fact meticulously planned on timescales detailed down to the minute. Unfortunately, once the troops went over the top it was practically impossible to adjust to an adverse situation as the information getting back was often hours out of date, so the timetable rolled on regardless. The first day of the Somme is a classic, and tragic, example.
And yes, some of the losses sustained by the German and French Generals in the early weeks and months of the war do begger belief. [Post edited 31 Oct 2014 23:29]
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Blimey,
That is quite a heavy and intellectual piece!
I enjoyed the analogy though. 'Lions led by Donkeys'. Is A football club run along the same lines? I guess that in reality it is. Football, not as dangerous as war though!
Whilst on the subject of the 1st World War, is the society that we now live in what all those men were fighting for? I wonder? Did the men who actually did the combat actually know what they were fighting for? Blair and Bush, 'you fly the planes,'' we will tell you what to do.' Can't of been much fun being in the 1914-18 war.
Blackpool FC? Well, they say the lions use to like to have a drink!  Dutch courage you know.
Some Subalterns liked to have a drink too!
Looks like we should have a lot of fun with our new Subalterns.
With the Donkeys holding the purse strings I recon our new Subalterns have as good a chance as anyone of saving Pool!
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| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 08:10 - Nov 1 with 1102 views | Curryman |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 22:54 - Oct 31 by Curryman |
I accept your argument Ribble, and we tend to look at things of yesteryear in today's light. It must not be forgotten that wireless was in it's infancy at the start of the war making command of so many troops difficult if not impossible and battles with so many participants had not been experienced prior to the outbreak. Some of the early casualties on both German and French sides were eye watering and made the Somme look like a minor skirmish in some ways. However, I couldn't resist the title as it summed up what I was trying to portray in my essay. |
Ribble, Have you read 'Catastrophe, Europe goes to war' by Max Hastings? It gives a very good account of the history leading up to the outbreak and also some of the horrendous facts about the early days, including the Serbs getting the better of the Austro Hungarian forces in the build up. A slightly different view from the usual accounts. I can thoroughly recommend it. |  |
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| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 11:30 - Nov 1 with 1088 views | ribble |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 08:10 - Nov 1 by Curryman |
Ribble, Have you read 'Catastrophe, Europe goes to war' by Max Hastings? It gives a very good account of the history leading up to the outbreak and also some of the horrendous facts about the early days, including the Serbs getting the better of the Austro Hungarian forces in the build up. A slightly different view from the usual accounts. I can thoroughly recommend it. |
Yes, I have and very good it is too although I'm not sure I agreed with his overarching conclusion that blame for the onset on WW1 could be entirely laid at the door of the Germans. There were many factors which came into play that summer. | | | |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 19:39 - Nov 2 with 1003 views | STHolder |
| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 11:30 - Nov 1 by ribble |
Yes, I have and very good it is too although I'm not sure I agreed with his overarching conclusion that blame for the onset on WW1 could be entirely laid at the door of the Germans. There were many factors which came into play that summer. |
Just caught up with this one Curryman! Excellent blog - kept writing them - much appreciated! | | | |
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| Brand New Blog from Curryman on 13:07 - Nov 4 with 961 views | Thames |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:54 - Nov 4 by Osbourne |
Unfortunately this post was lost during an edit.
The gist of the post was this :
Do AVFTT posters who are watching the BBC1 series 'The Passing Bells' think that there is any realism in it or simply light television friendly viewing?
I talked about Currymans, Donkeys' - Subalterns' - Lions' analogy.
Can one really compare the running of a professional football club to war?
I think I then made 3 observations about episode one which were;
1. Did people really fall for the propaganda?
2. Were trenches really so shallow? I would of thought they were much deeper. snipers?
3. Did the Germans' speak such good English!
Pity the original post was lost. This is written after the cryptic reply below. At least I know where the programme's name came from now : 'The Passing Bells,' a poem. Thanks for that.
I think I also passed the comment that if Curryman, ribble and others are off to Fulham on Wednesday night, then they will not be watching episode 3 anyway! Wish I was going. Too far for me. I will be listening on the radio hoping for 3 points. Lee Clark played a lot of games for Fulham, I wonder what his reception will be like?
[Post edited 4 Nov 2014 15:29]
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What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
– Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs,–
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.
Wilfred Owen [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 13:07]
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| The Passing Bells on 12:08 - Nov 5 with 896 views | Osbourne |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:54 - Nov 4 by Osbourne |
Unfortunately this post was lost during an edit.
The gist of the post was this :
Do AVFTT posters who are watching the BBC1 series 'The Passing Bells' think that there is any realism in it or simply light television friendly viewing?
I talked about Currymans, Donkeys' - Subalterns' - Lions' analogy.
Can one really compare the running of a professional football club to war?
I think I then made 3 observations about episode one which were;
1. Did people really fall for the propaganda?
2. Were trenches really so shallow? I would of thought they were much deeper. snipers?
3. Did the Germans' speak such good English!
Pity the original post was lost. This is written after the cryptic reply below. At least I know where the programme's name came from now : 'The Passing Bells,' a poem. Thanks for that.
I think I also passed the comment that if Curryman, ribble and others are off to Fulham on Wednesday night, then they will not be watching episode 3 anyway! Wish I was going. Too far for me. I will be listening on the radio hoping for 3 points. Lee Clark played a lot of games for Fulham, I wonder what his reception will be like?
[Post edited 4 Nov 2014 15:29]
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'The Passing Bells' - BBC1 TV series.
Two episodes down, 3 to go.
Probably should be on after 9pm is my only comment so far!
The Donkeys had wine
The Subalterns had whisky
The Lions had a spot of cheap rum!
The poem I can translate to an extent. Never been a fan of poems though, too cryptic for me! Who was Siegfried Sassoon? Is that how one spells it? Sorry got that wrong having re-read Thames post! I should of written, who is Wilfred Owen? Sassoon, which I am sure is spelt incorrectly, was a war poet, I think?
 I don't really understand the title either 'The Passing Bells?' [Post edited 5 Nov 2014 14:13]
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| The Passing Bells on 22:10 - Nov 5 with 827 views | ribble |
Osbourne
Just caught up with the first episode.
Ok(ish) but in terms of timescale and accuracy Passing Bells is all over the place really.
Newly enlisted men would never have walked out of the recruiting office in uniform. Most of the August and September recruits didn't commence their training for many weeks or even months after joining up as the Army didn't have the infrastructure to cope with the numbers and even then there weren't enough uniforms to go round. Also the majority of Kitchener's Army weren't posted overseas until 1915 or 1916 when there would have been plenty of Mills bombs about (as opposed to the jam tin devices shown). And you're right about the trenches. Sorry, but this sort of stuff really riles the WW1 geek in me.
Wilfred Owen was a contemporary war poet and friend of Sassoon. He was killed in action in November 1918, just a matter of days before the end of the war. If I remember rightly, his parents were informed on Armistice Day.
My guess is 'passing bells' refers to the tolling of funeral bells. [Post edited 5 Nov 2014 22:15]
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| The Passing Bells on 22:27 - Nov 5 with 813 views | HarryHorse |
| The Passing Bells on 22:10 - Nov 5 by ribble |
Osbourne
Just caught up with the first episode.
Ok(ish) but in terms of timescale and accuracy Passing Bells is all over the place really.
Newly enlisted men would never have walked out of the recruiting office in uniform. Most of the August and September recruits didn't commence their training for many weeks or even months after joining up as the Army didn't have the infrastructure to cope with the numbers and even then there weren't enough uniforms to go round. Also the majority of Kitchener's Army weren't posted overseas until 1915 or 1916 when there would have been plenty of Mills bombs about (as opposed to the jam tin devices shown). And you're right about the trenches. Sorry, but this sort of stuff really riles the WW1 geek in me.
Wilfred Owen was a contemporary war poet and friend of Sassoon. He was killed in action in November 1918, just a matter of days before the end of the war. If I remember rightly, his parents were informed on Armistice Day.
My guess is 'passing bells' refers to the tolling of funeral bells. [Post edited 5 Nov 2014 22:15]
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As well as being a font of all knowledge (geek :)) in this area I can vouch for the fact that Ribble is a very good tour guide .Spent a very enjoyable few days near Ypres with him and burgeoning family several years ago which I thought about when I went down to the stunning Tower of London poppy display recently | | | |
| The Passing Bells on 22:30 - Nov 5 with 807 views | ribble |
| The Passing Bells on 22:27 - Nov 5 by HarryHorse |
As well as being a font of all knowledge (geek :)) in this area I can vouch for the fact that Ribble is a very good tour guide .Spent a very enjoyable few days near Ypres with him and burgeoning family several years ago which I thought about when I went down to the stunning Tower of London poppy display recently |
You're too kind, Harry.  | | | |
| The Passing Bells on 15:24 - Nov 9 with 750 views | Osbourne |
| The Passing Bells on 22:30 - Nov 5 by ribble |
You're too kind, Harry. |
Thanks for your response ribble, interesting comments.
'The Passing Bells,' TV series has now concluded.
I must say that I wasn't expecting the ending that occurred. I could understand why the English soldier was in 'no mans land,' he was mending the wire. But why was the German soldier there? Even then I thought they were going to turn a blind eye to each other, but they stupidly didn't. Tragic.
All I can say is that, for the Lions and the Subalterns the 1914-18 war was pretty disturbing. For the Donkeys, well, enough said I guess.
Was it watchable?
Was it at all realistic?
Should it not of been on after 9pm?
Could the ending of not been a little more thought out?
Currymans analogy of war and football - Lions, Subalterns, donkeys is the link.
Obviously, football cannot really be compared to war. but without being too blatant, Curryman does have a point of sorts. Professional Football is a form of war, but without the ultimate danger of war. Your right ribble, Wilfred Owen never made it back from France in 1918. That fact makes his poem 'The Passing Bells,' even sadder.
Blimey, I hope we get 3 points v Bolton!
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| The Passing Bells on 21:53 - Nov 9 with 710 views | ribble |
| The Passing Bells on 15:24 - Nov 9 by Osbourne |
Thanks for your response ribble, interesting comments.
'The Passing Bells,' TV series has now concluded.
I must say that I wasn't expecting the ending that occurred. I could understand why the English soldier was in 'no mans land,' he was mending the wire. But why was the German soldier there? Even then I thought they were going to turn a blind eye to each other, but they stupidly didn't. Tragic.
All I can say is that, for the Lions and the Subalterns the 1914-18 war was pretty disturbing. For the Donkeys, well, enough said I guess.
Was it watchable?
Was it at all realistic?
Should it not of been on after 9pm?
Could the ending of not been a little more thought out?
Currymans analogy of war and football - Lions, Subalterns, donkeys is the link.
Obviously, football cannot really be compared to war. but without being too blatant, Curryman does have a point of sorts. Professional Football is a form of war, but without the ultimate danger of war. Your right ribble, Wilfred Owen never made it back from France in 1918. That fact makes his poem 'The Passing Bells,' even sadder.
Blimey, I hope we get 3 points v Bolton!
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I didn't persevere with the series, Osbourne, so haven't seen the last episode but it wouldn't be unusual for enemy troops to encounter each other in no-man's land. Both sides regularly sent out patrols at night and even raided each others trenches or attacked working parties, usually armed with spiked clubs and other gruesome home made weapons. | | | |
| The Passing Bells on 22:39 - Nov 9 with 703 views | Wizaard |
| The Passing Bells on 21:53 - Nov 9 by ribble |
I didn't persevere with the series, Osbourne, so haven't seen the last episode but it wouldn't be unusual for enemy troops to encounter each other in no-man's land. Both sides regularly sent out patrols at night and even raided each others trenches or attacked working parties, usually armed with spiked clubs and other gruesome home made weapons. |
As we do every year, went to our local Remembrance Sunday parade today. Maybe it's the anniversary bringing it home, allied to a decent day weatherwise, but there were more there today than I've ever seen before, with the vast majority not of an age when they would have been involved personally in any major conflict.
Good to see. |  | | |
| The Passing Bells on 22:50 - Nov 9 with 699 views | Curryman |
| The Passing Bells on 22:39 - Nov 9 by Wizaard |
As we do every year, went to our local Remembrance Sunday parade today. Maybe it's the anniversary bringing it home, allied to a decent day weatherwise, but there were more there today than I've ever seen before, with the vast majority not of an age when they would have been involved personally in any major conflict.
Good to see. |
Interesting to read that Ribble conducts tours of the trenches. I would like to go and see them one day. I have been to Ypres and also to a small village in the Somme where an Uncle was shot and is buried.
I became interested in WW1 when trying to find more out about my Grandad who was, I think, in the Royal Garrison Artillery (no 114864) and then the Labour Corps (517114). Unfortunately his records seem to be amongst those that were destroyed in WW2, but I do know that both his ear drums were burst by the guns and he was deaf for the rest of his life.
He was lucky he got home and lived, my wifes grandad was gassed, I think, at Paschendale and died some months later in hospital at Edinburgh. | |
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