| ODB from WSC 12:26 - Nov 15 with 3907 views | steve_g |
15 November ~ The experts were clear in their pre-season assessment of Blackpool’s prospects and the predictions have turned out to be chillingly accurate. It was widely expected that the Seasiders would finish rock bottom in the Championship and after 17 matches, that is precisely where they sit. The squad that was belatedly assembled was just not of the quality required to win games in the second tier, yet chairman Karl Oyston felt compelled to dismiss Jose Riga, appointed manager in the summer, after Blackpool took only six points from their opening 14 league fixtures.
The sacking was a largely unpopular decision with the fanbase, who instead pin the majority of the blame on Oyston. The unenviable task of salvaging the sinking ship falls to Lee Clark, who had been sacked himself by fellow relegation strugglers Birmingham City only a week beforehand.
Clark inherits a squad low on confidence and ability, but also faces a challenge in winning over the section of support still aggrieved that Riga is no longer in charge. That a manager with such a poor record can still command the respect of the fans says much for the tough circumstances he had to endure.
The incoming manager has been bullish about survival, although whether he genuinely believes that the cause is not lost only he can say. His second game in charge might have brought a win at Fulham were it not for a contentious sending-off.
Clark has been able to bring in a few of his own players but is currently limited to loans and those out of contract, such as Jamie O’Hara who arrived last week. Major overhaul of the squad will have to wait until January, by which time the game could be effectively up. Blackpool already need something approaching play-off form for the remainder of the season to reach the magical 50 point mark. It’s a target most Pool fans have given up on.
A tiny glimmer of light exists in the shape of the Latvian minority shareholder Valeri Belokon, who remains engaged in a war of words with the Oyston family. Legal action has been threatened over a financial disagreement and Belokon has intimated he would be willing to be part of a takeover bid. Many consider the Latvian’s original investment during the Simon Grayson and Ian Holloway eras to be the spark that guided the club to the Premier League, but for now the Oyston family seem intent on sticking around. Chris Walker |  |
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| ODB from WSC on 22:49 - Nov 17 with 977 views | Fountain |
| ODB from WSC on 22:35 - Nov 17 by terminallytangerine |
Well that's reassuring Founts - though the delight at Riga's supposed departure within weeks of his appointment as expressed very clearly in another place - might make you think otherwise.
It's good to talk though.
Goodnight. |
Never understood the notion that no manager would ever touch the job either.
As fans sometimes emotions and reality don't seem to mix, but they can. and should.
For the benefit of the tape, i was 100% behind Riga and wanted him backing. KoKupKoKo XXXXXXX up if he didn't know how foreign managers differ from British ones. Poor due dilly by him. I'd love to see Riga come back without the shackles of Oyston. | |
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| ODB from WSC on 22:51 - Nov 17 with 976 views | Rusty2Stands |
| ODB from WSC on 22:35 - Nov 17 by terminallytangerine |
Well that's reassuring Founts - though the delight at Riga's supposed departure within weeks of his appointment as expressed very clearly in another place - might make you think otherwise.
It's good to talk though.
Goodnight. |
If you always do what you've always done,
you will always get what you've always got.
In other words, if you continue to believe that dialogue with the the Oystons is the best way forward, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you will continue to be disappointed.
Simple really. The Oystons aren't remotely interested in the opinions of the fans.
What we think doesn't even register with them.
They have no interest in football.
They aren't suddenly going to change course.
They are only interested in making money. End of.
The sooner some of you realise that the better. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 22:59 - Nov 17 with 969 views | terminallytangerine |
| ODB from WSC on 22:51 - Nov 17 by Rusty2Stands |
If you always do what you've always done,
you will always get what you've always got.
In other words, if you continue to believe that dialogue with the the Oystons is the best way forward, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you will continue to be disappointed.
Simple really. The Oystons aren't remotely interested in the opinions of the fans.
What we think doesn't even register with them.
They have no interest in football.
They aren't suddenly going to change course.
They are only interested in making money. End of.
The sooner some of you realise that the better. |
I look forward to a change of approach then Rusty.
This of course works both ways.
'End of' though doesn't suggest you are that keen on dialogue, so really good night this time. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 23:02 - Nov 17 with 969 views | Fountain |
They aren't interested in the opinions of anyone, so why should fans matter.
Belokon played the major role in getting to the PL; the fans played the rest.
So to disrespect with contempt both parties is well, insert word _______ [Post edited 17 Nov 2014 23:03]
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| ODB from WSC on 07:15 - Nov 18 with 954 views | Rusty2Stands |
| ODB from WSC on 22:59 - Nov 17 by terminallytangerine |
I look forward to a change of approach then Rusty.
This of course works both ways.
'End of' though doesn't suggest you are that keen on dialogue, so really good night this time. |
TT, it would appear that the message isn't getting through to you.
It's got nothing to do with whether me or any other fan or fans group is keen on dialogue or not.
I'll repeat it once more, maybe this time it will sink in -
THE OYSTONS ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN MONEY.
THEY ARE ONLY IN IT TO TAKE AS MUCH MONEY OUT AS THEY CAN.
THEY DON'T LIKE FOOTBALL AND DON'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOU OR ANY OTHER FAN THINKS.
THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HAVE DIALOGUE IF ONLY ONE SIDE IS WILLING, AND THE OYSTONS AREN'T WILLING.
Has it sunk in yet TT? Apart from the above, there is overwhelming evidence about the Oystons, which any fool can now see. That's if you really want to see it.
Despite that overwhelming evidence, incredibly some still have their heads stuck in the sand and refuse to believe that the Oystons could do such awful things.
Anyway, you carry on with your laughable 'dialogue'. It's a one way street and you'll get nowhere. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 09:10 - Nov 18 with 936 views | Wizaard |
| ODB from WSC on 07:15 - Nov 18 by Rusty2Stands |
TT, it would appear that the message isn't getting through to you.
It's got nothing to do with whether me or any other fan or fans group is keen on dialogue or not.
I'll repeat it once more, maybe this time it will sink in -
THE OYSTONS ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN MONEY.
THEY ARE ONLY IN IT TO TAKE AS MUCH MONEY OUT AS THEY CAN.
THEY DON'T LIKE FOOTBALL AND DON'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOU OR ANY OTHER FAN THINKS.
THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HAVE DIALOGUE IF ONLY ONE SIDE IS WILLING, AND THE OYSTONS AREN'T WILLING.
Has it sunk in yet TT? Apart from the above, there is overwhelming evidence about the Oystons, which any fool can now see. That's if you really want to see it.
Despite that overwhelming evidence, incredibly some still have their heads stuck in the sand and refuse to believe that the Oystons could do such awful things.
Anyway, you carry on with your laughable 'dialogue'. It's a one way street and you'll get nowhere. |
And yet that dialogue points out clearly to them that they will lose money if they continue down the path they are on.
If all they're interested in is money, then someone from outside telling them that they can make it, not lose it, might be listened to. |  | | |
| ODB from WSC on 09:57 - Nov 18 with 928 views | terminallytangerine |
| ODB from WSC on 07:15 - Nov 18 by Rusty2Stands |
TT, it would appear that the message isn't getting through to you.
It's got nothing to do with whether me or any other fan or fans group is keen on dialogue or not.
I'll repeat it once more, maybe this time it will sink in -
THE OYSTONS ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN MONEY.
THEY ARE ONLY IN IT TO TAKE AS MUCH MONEY OUT AS THEY CAN.
THEY DON'T LIKE FOOTBALL AND DON'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOU OR ANY OTHER FAN THINKS.
THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HAVE DIALOGUE IF ONLY ONE SIDE IS WILLING, AND THE OYSTONS AREN'T WILLING.
Has it sunk in yet TT? Apart from the above, there is overwhelming evidence about the Oystons, which any fool can now see. That's if you really want to see it.
Despite that overwhelming evidence, incredibly some still have their heads stuck in the sand and refuse to believe that the Oystons could do such awful things.
Anyway, you carry on with your laughable 'dialogue'. It's a one way street and you'll get nowhere. |
THANK YOU RUSTY. THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 17:30 - Nov 18 with 897 views | Rusty2Stands |
Glad to be of service TT.
You obviously needed some help because you can't see what is right in front of your nose. | | | |
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| ODB from WSC on 18:43 - Nov 18 with 885 views | Wizaard |
| ODB from WSC on 17:30 - Nov 18 by Rusty2Stands |
Glad to be of service TT.
You obviously needed some help because you can't see what is right in front of your nose. |
So not having dialogue will make them change their minds unbidden? | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 19:00 - Nov 18 with 882 views | Fountain |
Wiz, depends on whether KO views some dialogue as a sort of pacifier. I believe he does.
IMHO I think it's better to let KO stand alone and make decisions. At least then he's not hiding behind the 'They said ..'.
That isn't a go at BSA, it's a go at ANY body having dialogue because it's manipulation to the detriment of...err...dialogue.. | |
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| ODB from WSC on 19:37 - Nov 18 with 876 views | Rusty2Stands |
| ODB from WSC on 18:43 - Nov 18 by Wizaard |
So not having dialogue will make them change their minds unbidden? |
Wiz, I don't think there's much that will change their minds to be honest, least of all dialogue. There is no reason to believe that dialogue will work. Goodness knows, BSA have tried hard enough over the years, all to no avail.
KO remains as stubborn as ever and doesn't give a toss about the club or the feelings of the fans. He is in it for self gain and not for the good of the club
Of that I am positive. To me, the evidence is overwhelming.
The only things that may make him change his mind are
Either -
Serious physical violence carried out on a member or members of the Oyston family. If things got really serious in that respect they may think it's time to bail out. And it saddens me to even say that as there is no way I would condone anyone getting hurt. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this does eventually happen though. There is only so long you can keep prodding a tiger with a stick until it reacts. And KO certainly seems to enjoy prodding with that stick. I do question his mental stability on that one. Even he must think deep down whether the need for security around himself and family is a price worth paying. I know I would start questioning myself if things reached the stage where I needed bodyguards to keep myself and my family safe.
Or -
Belokon succesfully sues them and they are left in a position where they owe him a huge amount of money and the club is worth next to nothing. It's not far off being worth that now to be honest.
I confess to always admiring your optimism Wiz and your undying support for BFC.
But deep down do you REALLY think KO will change? | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 19:46 - Nov 18 with 871 views | terminallytangerine |
| ODB from WSC on 19:00 - Nov 18 by Fountain |
Wiz, depends on whether KO views some dialogue as a sort of pacifier. I believe he does.
IMHO I think it's better to let KO stand alone and make decisions. At least then he's not hiding behind the 'They said ..'.
That isn't a go at BSA, it's a go at ANY body having dialogue because it's manipulation to the detriment of...err...dialogue.. |
These are of course opinions though and so much is presented as fact which is basically second guessing the motivations, thoughts, feelings of others, sometimes incorrectly.
It may be that KO is the devil incarnate but I don't believe that he is unaware of the hole we are in and that there are good financial reasons why relegation would not be in any of our interests. And if he doesn't then dialogue is a golden opportunity for reminding him that this is not how the supporters feel (or at least not those who put football first).
Allowing KO to stand alone and make decisions in the hope that this would make him make better decisions or more likely to respond to the protest movement sooner is not an opinion everyone shares.
In the end people will do what they think is right and will not be 'manipulated' by the message-boards, by the views of the two supporters organisations (three if you include the knights) or by the chairman.
Only my opinion of course. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 22:16 - Nov 18 with 850 views | Fountain |
Allowing KO to stand alone is basically giving him enough rope to hang himself. The dialogue, or whatever it is with BSA masks and dilutes that. | |
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| ODB from WSC on 22:36 - Nov 18 with 842 views | tde74 |
| ODB from WSC on 22:16 - Nov 18 by Fountain |
Allowing KO to stand alone is basically giving him enough rope to hang himself. The dialogue, or whatever it is with BSA masks and dilutes that. |
I agree. The endgame is never going to be "Karl seeing sense". All supports need to be removed, all crutches kicked away, all excuses laid bare. The 'enabling' has got to end. Tough love and all that. |  | | |
| ODB from WSC on 22:48 - Nov 18 with 830 views | terminallytangerine |
| ODB from WSC on 22:36 - Nov 18 by tde74 |
I agree. The endgame is never going to be "Karl seeing sense". All supports need to be removed, all crutches kicked away, all excuses laid bare. The 'enabling' has got to end. Tough love and all that. |
So we accept relegation and in the meantime we throw tennis balls? | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 23:07 - Nov 18 with 818 views | Rusty2Stands |
| ODB from WSC on 22:48 - Nov 18 by terminallytangerine |
So we accept relegation and in the meantime we throw tennis balls? |
Relegation is nailed on no matter what is thrown.
I admire your optimism TT, but surely you don't believe deep down that we're suddenly going to hit the sort of form needed to stay up?
There'll be little or no funds available in January as usual, so we may avoid a record low points total if we're lucky.
And you can call me defeatist if you want but the fact is we're going down.
We were near certainties before a ball was even kicked.
And it's all down to one man, and one man only. And it certainly isn't Riga as that mentally ill clown said in the local rag tonight.
That clown with whom dialogue is a total and utter waste of time.
Feel free to bookmark this post and we'll revisit it next May. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 23:21 - Nov 18 with 813 views | Wizaard |
| ODB from WSC on 23:07 - Nov 18 by Rusty2Stands |
Relegation is nailed on no matter what is thrown.
I admire your optimism TT, but surely you don't believe deep down that we're suddenly going to hit the sort of form needed to stay up?
There'll be little or no funds available in January as usual, so we may avoid a record low points total if we're lucky.
And you can call me defeatist if you want but the fact is we're going down.
We were near certainties before a ball was even kicked.
And it's all down to one man, and one man only. And it certainly isn't Riga as that mentally ill clown said in the local rag tonight.
That clown with whom dialogue is a total and utter waste of time.
Feel free to bookmark this post and we'll revisit it next May. |
At this moment it's your opinion we're going down, not fact.
That's not optimism, it's statistics.
The gap is not unassailable and a win on Saturday would change the picture completely. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 00:45 - Nov 19 with 803 views | terminallytangerine |
| ODB from WSC on 23:07 - Nov 18 by Rusty2Stands |
Relegation is nailed on no matter what is thrown.
I admire your optimism TT, but surely you don't believe deep down that we're suddenly going to hit the sort of form needed to stay up?
There'll be little or no funds available in January as usual, so we may avoid a record low points total if we're lucky.
And you can call me defeatist if you want but the fact is we're going down.
We were near certainties before a ball was even kicked.
And it's all down to one man, and one man only. And it certainly isn't Riga as that mentally ill clown said in the local rag tonight.
That clown with whom dialogue is a total and utter waste of time.
Feel free to bookmark this post and we'll revisit it next May. |
Book mark away.
It's always good to talk. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 08:29 - Nov 19 with 784 views | straightatthewall |
Wiz,
I've always admired your optimism, but that last post is beyond clutching at straws.
Here's some statistics for you:
We are currently displaying bottom of the table form. That's based on results starting a long long time before Jose riga ever stepped foot in bloomfield road. To avoid relegation, we are going to need to show play-off achieving form.
Barring a Hollywood style conversion of the players from losers to winners, to achieve that dramatic change we are going to have to see several things happen:
1) All the players currently on trial HAVE to join immediately AND HAVE to be already match fit and playing at the ability they displayed 5 years ago. Given that none has a club and no club wanted them other than us, I think the chances of both the above happening are extremely slim even before we tackle the really thorny issue of how many will karl actually sign.
2) in January, the club i.e. karl and Owen will have to make a 180 degree u-turn on all previous policies, splash the cash on top quality players and offer them 3 year deals. It's already been established by karl that the masterplan of waiting for FFP rules to kick in has 'failed' as other clubs won't need to follow them (as an aside, i'm still to get a satisfactory answer from anyone as to why a man on the football league board wasn't able to realise that putting all his eggs in the FFP basket wasn't sensible when it was clear that discussions between the PL and FL on funding were still ongoing.....)
It's ok having hope or even thinking that we have a duty to support - we do. But we also have a duty to act properly and as one to respond to the destruction of the club we all love.
What will happen if we do nothing now? I'll tell you; we'll get to may and the same people will be having the same debates and taking the same stance. We'll also have words from those wishing to not rock the boat because 'karl has said he recognises errors made, lee had no chance because of riga and its vital that we ger back into the championship at the first attempt.
One other point re money. You mentioned earlier that it's obvious for karl to see that relegation loses him money. You miss the point spectacularly - or by £90m if you like....
The money 'available' to skim off in the championship is only marginally greater than the money you can skim off in league IF you don't have parachute payments to plunder. They've almost taken all the cash now. It's nearly gone, never to be seen again. IF it does get invested, it will be to build a housing estate, with a bare minimum training ground attached. In other words, it will only be used to make them more money and leave the club well short of what they need.
This season more than any before has been focused around extraction. Hence the 2 year ST deal driven by the appointment of a popular choice manager who was subsequently not backed at all.
That's all i'm going to say on this now. I've laid out the options to us as supporters in various threads over months. I know i'm right too. |  |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| ODB from WSC on 10:07 - Nov 19 with 773 views | tde74 |
Just wanted to add that it's nice to see so much decent sensible debate from all perspectives.  | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 09:35 - Dec 9 with 721 views | 1953Original |
Quite interesting re-reading ODB's piece and especially this line
Major overhaul of the squad will have to wait until January, by which time the game could be effectively up.
Has Clark effectively over-hauled the squad with 7 of his own players on Saturday or has he merely applied the sticking plaster? | |
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| ODB from WSC on 11:59 - Dec 9 with 684 views | terminallytangerine |
He writes well and brought back some great memories there. | | | |
| ODB from WSC on 12:02 - Dec 9 with 684 views | basilrobbiereborn |
Very good debate, with some excellent points made.
I think SATW makes the case for direct action well, but to my mind you have to factor in the characteristics of the other party you are dealing with. I don't know the Oystons, but my perception of them is that they are stubborn, pretty thick-skinned and very interested in making a few bob. As such, I don't think abuse, shouting or anything worse is likely to have the desired effect.
You'd be be far better making the case that the right kind of investment can yield spectacular rewards. You'd be far better persuading them to go back and analyse what happened between 2006-10, identify what worked and why, and try to replicate it. You'd be far better explaining to them why people get angry and what would lessen their ire. All of which requires intelligent and measured communication. [Post edited 9 Dec 2014 12:22]
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| ODB from WSC on 13:00 - Dec 9 with 657 views | Wizaard |
Another fantastic piece summing up the last few years. | | | |
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