| The Trust AGM on 09:27 - Nov 25 with 1549 views | Nookiejack |
Has the Trust received:-
(1) Management Accounts for 12 months ending 31st July 16?
(2) August-16 Management Accounts?
(3) September-16 Management Accounts?
If the Trust has received any of the above how long after respective periods have the above been delivered?
Board meetings now scheduled quarterly instead of monthly?
Come on guys get on with the legal action - as the Trust has absolutely no influence and the longer there is a stand off the weaker the Trust's position is going to be, |  | |  |
| The Trust AGM on 09:32 - Nov 25 with 1543 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 01:27 - Nov 25 by Loyal |
Thing is Major and others with a shit attitude saw themselves as above the average swans fan. Like others he hangs around with he was quick to belittle and undermine and slow to back it up.
Dai Little is a quality bloke, others of his area of residence not much so, if at all. |
I have the following issues with Dai Little.
First of all very serious mistakes have been made. But there is no transparency whatsoever surrounding the the Trust's decision making process and the whole issue of legal advice is portrayed as a black box, that produces definitive answers.
Reality is nothing like that, however, and some light needs to be shined on what the fcuk is going on to objectively assess the competence of whatever legal advisors are being used.
Secondly, while I note the praise Little gets, I find it very strange indeed that if he is a man of integrity he didn't pipe up at the Trust's meetings on conflict of interest and say, "hang on, I have a conflict that should be declared too", because it is so blindingly obvious.
None of this adds up, and we need some information, including the details of payments not least because the conflicts of interest register is a joke without it. |  |
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| The Trust AGM on 09:33 - Nov 25 with 1541 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Trust AGM on 09:32 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
I have the following issues with Dai Little.
First of all very serious mistakes have been made. But there is no transparency whatsoever surrounding the the Trust's decision making process and the whole issue of legal advice is portrayed as a black box, that produces definitive answers.
Reality is nothing like that, however, and some light needs to be shined on what the fcuk is going on to objectively assess the competence of whatever legal advisors are being used.
Secondly, while I note the praise Little gets, I find it very strange indeed that if he is a man of integrity he didn't pipe up at the Trust's meetings on conflict of interest and say, "hang on, I have a conflict that should be declared too", because it is so blindingly obvious.
None of this adds up, and we need some information, including the details of payments not least because the conflicts of interest register is a joke without it. |
What conflict?
He's their legal affiliate, not a board member or director.
Ronseal - it does what it says on the tin. |  |
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| The Trust AGM on 09:36 - Nov 25 with 1531 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Trust AGM on 09:22 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Agreed.
But while I have in this thread focused on the negatives, let's not forget the one enormous positive of selling the Trust's stake and banking an additional £22 million + change.
As I read it, the Trust's original cornerstone founding objective was to secure the presence of professional football in Swansea.
If the Trust has £23 million in relatively liquid assets, this creates an insurance policy that can guarantee that objective for generations.
Think of that as a hugely important legacy, Phil, rather than cling on to a now non-existent status from an era that has simply passed by. You have got to let go. |
I for one am for a forced sale of shares, providing the odds are at least 80 - 20 in our favour. As I'm only one member of 1500 then unfortunately if the majority don't agree then I either suck it up or don't pay my subs. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 09:46 - Nov 25 with 1502 views | Nookiejack |
If the Trust is not receiving timely financial information - how will the trust pick up quickly such things as that Yanks suddenly doing a Stan Kroenke and start paying themselves large management consultancy fees or similar? Have they done this already? What monitoring fees are being charged by the Yanks new appointed directors?
If they action this in say September but the Trust doesn't pick this up until Board meeting in December - what protections are in place?
What happens if the Yank' sanction payments to their company based in Delaware - money then goes offshore? The Trust would not pick this up for at least 3 months - if Board meetings are now only being held on a quarterly basis and now not receiving monthly management accounts? | | | |
| The Trust AGM on 10:03 - Nov 25 with 1486 views | AngelRangelQS |
| The Trust AGM on 09:22 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Agreed.
But while I have in this thread focused on the negatives, let's not forget the one enormous positive of selling the Trust's stake and banking an additional £22 million + change.
As I read it, the Trust's original cornerstone founding objective was to secure the presence of professional football in Swansea.
If the Trust has £23 million in relatively liquid assets, this creates an insurance policy that can guarantee that objective for generations.
Think of that as a hugely important legacy, Phil, rather than cling on to a now non-existent status from an era that has simply passed by. You have got to let go. |
Absolutely - what a safety net that would be in terms of securing the future of a professional football club in Swansea |  | | |
| The Trust AGM on 10:39 - Nov 25 with 1453 views | MoscowJack |
| The Trust AGM on 09:46 - Nov 25 by Nookiejack |
If the Trust is not receiving timely financial information - how will the trust pick up quickly such things as that Yanks suddenly doing a Stan Kroenke and start paying themselves large management consultancy fees or similar? Have they done this already? What monitoring fees are being charged by the Yanks new appointed directors?
If they action this in say September but the Trust doesn't pick this up until Board meeting in December - what protections are in place?
What happens if the Yank' sanction payments to their company based in Delaware - money then goes offshore? The Trust would not pick this up for at least 3 months - if Board meetings are now only being held on a quarterly basis and now not receiving monthly management accounts? |
I understand that the Yanks have logistic issues to contend with, in regards to attending meetings in Swansea, but surely a monthly board meeting should be possible, even if the Yanks join via video conferencing facilities.
The last board I was on compiled of about 10 people mainly spread across 10 time zones. It wasn't always easy or convenient for everyone but we managed and it worked well.
Considering all the on-field and off-field issues at the moment, returning to monthly board meetings would be near the top of the agenda, as would the "sharing" of all the accounts on a monthly basis too. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 11:00 - Nov 25 with 1436 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Trust AGM on 10:39 - Nov 25 by MoscowJack |
I understand that the Yanks have logistic issues to contend with, in regards to attending meetings in Swansea, but surely a monthly board meeting should be possible, even if the Yanks join via video conferencing facilities.
The last board I was on compiled of about 10 people mainly spread across 10 time zones. It wasn't always easy or convenient for everyone but we managed and it worked well.
Considering all the on-field and off-field issues at the moment, returning to monthly board meetings would be near the top of the agenda, as would the "sharing" of all the accounts on a monthly basis too. |
Unless of course someone has something to hide.
Management accounts shouldn't be too hard to complete, I mean it's not as if they haven't got all of the information needed to forecast income and expenditure, is it? It's not as if they've got 20 or 30 commercial partners providing income at different times, is it? | |
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| The Trust AGM on 11:12 - Nov 25 with 1413 views | MoscowJack |
| The Trust AGM on 11:00 - Nov 25 by waynekerr55 |
Unless of course someone has something to hide.
Management accounts shouldn't be too hard to complete, I mean it's not as if they haven't got all of the information needed to forecast income and expenditure, is it? It's not as if they've got 20 or 30 commercial partners providing income at different times, is it? |
That's the thing - having quarterly meetings instead of monthly makes me think they're just keen on keeping everyone at arm's length.
Even if they did have 20 or 30 or 300 commercial partners, it's still not difficult for an organised accounting team to provide actual numbers and forecasts with a good degree of accuracy.
I might not be so suspicious of this was it not for the way the Yanks have behaved at every single step so far! | |
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| The Trust AGM on 12:03 - Nov 25 with 1358 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 09:33 - Nov 25 by waynekerr55 |
What conflict?
He's their legal affiliate, not a board member or director.
Ronseal - it does what it says on the tin. |
Dai Little is a Trust board member.
As their point man on law, in addition he is presumably solely responsible for their legal strategy of going round in circles doing nothing, and now apparently exploring new secret, non-specified wild goose chase avenues according to the latest PR.
The fact you are actually unable to glimpse the possibility that this professionally billed dithering represents a huge potential conflict of interest is something I am hard pressed to believe. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 12:08 - Nov 25 with 1350 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 11:12 - Nov 25 by MoscowJack |
That's the thing - having quarterly meetings instead of monthly makes me think they're just keen on keeping everyone at arm's length.
Even if they did have 20 or 30 or 300 commercial partners, it's still not difficult for an organised accounting team to provide actual numbers and forecasts with a good degree of accuracy.
I might not be so suspicious of this was it not for the way the Yanks have behaved at every single step so far! |
Apart from some supervisory responsibilities, the board's function is to deterine the strategy of the company.
But there is now a new controlling shareholder in town who is legally allowed to do that, and is clearly exercising that right as events have shown.
People need to wake up and comprehend the realities of the new ownership situation. Pronto. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 13:15 - Nov 25 with 1293 views | MoscowJack |
| The Trust AGM on 12:03 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Dai Little is a Trust board member.
As their point man on law, in addition he is presumably solely responsible for their legal strategy of going round in circles doing nothing, and now apparently exploring new secret, non-specified wild goose chase avenues according to the latest PR.
The fact you are actually unable to glimpse the possibility that this professionally billed dithering represents a huge potential conflict of interest is something I am hard pressed to believe. |
Dai Little is NOT a Trust Board member. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 13:30 - Nov 25 with 1270 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 13:15 - Nov 25 by MoscowJack |
Dai Little is NOT a Trust Board member. |
Course he is. Look at some recent Trust minutes.
Perhaps you're thinking of Dai Littles?  | |
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| The Trust AGM on 13:44 - Nov 25 with 1249 views | MoscowJack |
| The Trust AGM on 13:30 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Course he is. Look at some recent Trust minutes.
Perhaps you're thinking of Dai Littles? |
Dai is not on the Board - elected or co-opted and never have been. It has been the case since he properly got involved via the late and great Rich Lillicrap around 10+ years ago. I guess he doesn't want to commit to the Board due to his location and other business commitments.
I presume he's an affiliate, advisor or a representative or something like that as he does attend 1 or 2 of the monthly board meetings a year. I think (although I may be wrong) that he's on the Supporters Direct board though. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 13:45 - Nov 25 with 1239 views | NOTRAC |
David Little is described in the club accounts as a legal affiliate and is included under the heading of coopted trust members.
In the year to 31st May 2015 legal and due diligence costs were shown amounting to £6918,but there is no reference in those accounts as to how much of his amount was paid,if any,to David Little.
David Little has claimed on his web page responsibility for saving the Trust from having been taken over by the first investors and particularly emphasises his part in advising the Trust not to sell their shares 'in any form'
In view of the subsequent developments corresponding with that advise, it is surprising that the Trust are still using David Little in their current situation. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 14:01 - Nov 25 with 1204 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Trust AGM on 12:03 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Dai Little is a Trust board member.
As their point man on law, in addition he is presumably solely responsible for their legal strategy of going round in circles doing nothing, and now apparently exploring new secret, non-specified wild goose chase avenues according to the latest PR.
The fact you are actually unable to glimpse the possibility that this professionally billed dithering represents a huge potential conflict of interest is something I am hard pressed to believe. |
He's their legal affiliate. Isn't legal advice what he is supposed to do, therefore no conflict?
FWIW I agree that there should be questions around every aspect (as in most cases you have raised may I add), but what you do have to accept is that we cannot simply tar everyone with the 'Cooze' brush. That's a bit too simplistic a view, not that I need to tell you that 
I'm also of the opinion that, should you have hard evidence that there is a 'watertight' case that you should offer your services (for the appropriate fee of course). Not that you'd care one iota, but if you don't do so then your many salient points will be dismissed as nothing but vacuous ramblings. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 14:11 - Nov 25 with 1181 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 13:44 - Nov 25 by MoscowJack |
Dai is not on the Board - elected or co-opted and never have been. It has been the case since he properly got involved via the late and great Rich Lillicrap around 10+ years ago. I guess he doesn't want to commit to the Board due to his location and other business commitments.
I presume he's an affiliate, advisor or a representative or something like that as he does attend 1 or 2 of the monthly board meetings a year. I think (although I may be wrong) that he's on the Supporters Direct board though. |
Little is expected and elligible to attend Trust Board meetings. That's why his name always appears at the top.
Now if you are arguing that there is somehow a technical loophole that eliminates his obligation to be bound by common standards of conduct, then you are arguing to actively subvert the spirit of things like conflict of interest disclosures.
Why would you want to do that? | |
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| The Trust AGM on 14:13 - Nov 25 with 1178 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 13:45 - Nov 25 by NOTRAC |
David Little is described in the club accounts as a legal affiliate and is included under the heading of coopted trust members.
In the year to 31st May 2015 legal and due diligence costs were shown amounting to £6918,but there is no reference in those accounts as to how much of his amount was paid,if any,to David Little.
David Little has claimed on his web page responsibility for saving the Trust from having been taken over by the first investors and particularly emphasises his part in advising the Trust not to sell their shares 'in any form'
In view of the subsequent developments corresponding with that advise, it is surprising that the Trust are still using David Little in their current situation. |
Good info, Notrac. Way to go.
Of course those billings from the 2015 financial year are likely to pale into insignificance compared to when has gone down over the last 8 months or so.
Do you have a link to the web page you mentioned? [Post edited 25 Nov 2016 14:13]
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| The Trust AGM on 14:25 - Nov 25 with 1161 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 14:13 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
Good info, Notrac. Way to go.
Of course those billings from the 2015 financial year are likely to pale into insignificance compared to when has gone down over the last 8 months or so.
Do you have a link to the web page you mentioned? [Post edited 25 Nov 2016 14:13]
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. . . .See he's a member at the Lensbury though. Must live in my old neck of the woods. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 14:32 - Nov 25 with 1147 views | Shaky |
More bio: http://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/swansea-city-supporters-trust/
The question that occurs to me reading that, is was Little a successful lawyer who gave his time generously in the early years to help his club, or was that success at least partially built on and arising out of the references from the work with the Trust? | |
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| The Trust AGM on 15:20 - Nov 25 with 1099 views | NOTRAC |
Look at PDF Supporters Direct after googling David Little Swansea City | |
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| The Trust AGM on 15:25 - Nov 25 with 1080 views | fbreath |
| The Trust AGM on 14:32 - Nov 25 by Shaky |
More bio: http://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/swansea-city-supporters-trust/
The question that occurs to me reading that, is was Little a successful lawyer who gave his time generously in the early years to help his club, or was that success at least partially built on and arising out of the references from the work with the Trust? |
Anybody in business is going to use reference to past jobs carried out (be they paid or voluntary) that look good to the person you are talking to to secure a deal with a new potential client in any business be you a lawyer or a plumber.
Its called selling as I am sure you are aware. |  |
| We are the first Welsh club to reach the Premier League Simples |
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| The Trust AGM on 16:02 - Nov 25 with 1022 views | Shaky |
| The Trust AGM on 15:20 - Nov 25 by NOTRAC |
Look at PDF Supporters Direct after googling David Little Swansea City |
Outstanding catch, notrac.
Anybody who didn't find the link themselves here it is:
http://www.supporters-direct.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/David-Little.pdf
I defy anyone reading that not to reach the objective conclusion that Little is if not directly obstructing a sale of the Trust's stake, then certainly putting up a great deal of resistance. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 16:16 - Nov 25 with 997 views | MoscowJack |
To be fair to Dai, it looks like this was written not long after Yanks v1 were chased out of town (and before Yanks v2 came along). The Trust were right not to even begin negotiations with them as they weren't credible buyers. It's a pity that HJ and LD didn't due the same due dilligence as Dai and others from the Trust did.
Yanks v2 is different, or at least it could have been had they had the chance or even speak to Yanks v2 before HJ & LD signed the deal off.
Surely the whole point is that certain people believed (or wanted to believe) that the Trust didn't want to sell, but nobody has ever said that in an official capacity. Maybe they've said something like "we would prefer not to sell" but that's just common sense as it's part of the Trust's charter.
The truth (probably!) is that it was easier to pretend that the Trust didn't want to sell so the Trust didn't have to poke their noses into the sale, as they had done (to good effect) with the previous sellers. It was a risk that those desperate for their lottery win couldn't refuse. | |
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| The Trust AGM on 16:19 - Nov 25 with 990 views | NeiltheTaylor |
Don't most people paying more than a passing interest know the former strategy and its alignment with the Supporter's Direct philosophy?
Top man is Dai Little, his credentials are great. Let's see your's then, Shaky. | |
| Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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