| The proposed loan of Fede 19:49 - Jul 23 with 16986 views | oldcob |
to Newcastle. Am I the only one who sees no sense in this? Newcastle gain, they get an experienced Premiership International centre back. Fede gains he's playing the standard of football he wishes. Apart from saving Fede's wages, what are Swansea City getting out of this? I can't see anything. Why would we agree to this?
[Post edited 23 Jul 2018 20:01]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:22 - Jul 25 with 1154 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:16 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
No Dim, I am contrasting for you the difference between Apples and oranges.
Alas you are unable to grasp that gambling - an activity with two possible outcomes - differs from business, an activity with a complex spectrum of outcomes influencing many different variable. |
Of course there are differing variables. Business is a gamble, if you want to take it from the binary (I know you are scared if that word) we will take it to stocks or even sports betting. They are gambles. A spectrum of influencing factors at play here.
Yet short term outcome still does not determine strategy.
And it never ever will. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 18:22]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:24 - Jul 25 with 1147 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:19 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course it is, as I have said many times, it is a strategy present in every single approach and not unique to one. So determining on whether one is a long or short term approach based on something present in both approaches makes little sense.
To judge and compare you look for differences not similarities present in all by default. The differences of course is that they/he takes a cut regardless and narrows the field of choice. But let’s take it away from signings as people clearly are not on the same page regarding this part f the transfer policy.
I will repeat regarding sales. Tutumlu took a slice of ALL outgoing players whether he represented them or not, whether he brought them in or not, whether he was even there when they signed for us or not. Is this a long term business model? Or again is short termist deals looking to take from a pot needed for a club with limited income to grow? |
Was Toots taking the decision to sell players? No.
Then the question is completely irrelevant. |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:26 - Jul 25 with 1134 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:22 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course there are differing variables. Business is a gamble, if you want to take it from the binary (I know you are scared if that word) we will take it to stocks or even sports betting. They are gambles. A spectrum of influencing factors at play here.
Yet short term outcome still does not determine strategy.
And it never ever will. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 18:22]
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How do you think you measure the success of strategies? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:27 - Jul 25 with 1124 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:24 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
Was Toots taking the decision to sell players? No.
Then the question is completely irrelevant. |
It doesn’t matter a jot.
We sold because we needed to. Yet had a parasite sucking a percentage from it introduced by the very manager of the club.
If there was a long term financially viable approach was underway do you really think the managers agent would be taking a % of all unrelated sales for his own pocket?
No. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:29 - Jul 25 with 1114 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:26 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
How do you think you measure the success of strategies? |
“Success of strategies” is absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Which shows exactly how you do not understand the simplest of concepts. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:31 - Jul 25 with 1115 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:27 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
It doesn’t matter a jot.
We sold because we needed to. Yet had a parasite sucking a percentage from it introduced by the very manager of the club.
If there was a long term financially viable approach was underway do you really think the managers agent would be taking a % of all unrelated sales for his own pocket?
No. |
Gibberish. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:31 - Jul 25 with 1107 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:29 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
“Success of strategies” is absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Which shows exactly how you do not understand the simplest of concepts. |
I don’t think you understand how football works. |  | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:32 - Jul 25 with 1096 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:29 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
“Success of strategies” is absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Which shows exactly how you do not understand the simplest of concepts. |
I think I see the problem, Dim; you have no idea what you are talking about. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:32 - Jul 25 with 1089 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:31 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
Gibberish. |
Ah yeah.
Tutumlu taking a % of every unrelated player sale was for the long term benefit of the club.
Forgot. Silly me. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:34 - Jul 25 with 1082 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:31 - Jul 25 by 34dfgdf54 |
I don’t think you understand how football works. |
Yes but you often let yourself down with your thinking so I suggest we are ok there. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:35 - Jul 25 with 1081 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:32 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Ah yeah.
Tutumlu taking a % of every unrelated player sale was for the long term benefit of the club.
Forgot. Silly me. |
A transaction cost, Dim.
And getting transfers done quickly and efficiently is most certainly in the short and long term interest of the club, as the unholy dithering over Siggy demonstrated conclusively last summer. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:36 - Jul 25 with 1069 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:32 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
I think I see the problem, Dim; you have no idea what you are talking about. |
So after pages of me teaching you that short term results or success doesn’t determine the approach or mentality of a business model...
You ask the question how does “success of strategy get measured”... then accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about. If it wasn’t written down it would scarcely be believable  | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:38 - Jul 25 with 1060 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:35 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
A transaction cost, Dim.
And getting transfers done quickly and efficiently is most certainly in the short and long term interest of the club, as the unholy dithering over Siggy demonstrated conclusively last summer. |
A transaction cost
... to a bloke completely unrelated to the sale??!
Can I have one too?
You don’t half talk a load of rubbish. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:43 - Jul 25 with 1028 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:39 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
The fact that you don't think businesses measure the success or failure of their strategies at every conceivable timeframe, tells me your real world experience of those subjects amounts to a blank canvas. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 18:41]
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Who said that then? You seem to be making stuff up again to cover your lack of understanding of the discussion and subject in general.
I have repeatedly said is that short term outcome or result is not a measure of strategic approach, which it isn’t.
You seem to have changed that to businesses don’t measure performance at differing timeframes?
Nice strawman. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:49 - Jul 25 with 1006 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:43 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Who said that then? You seem to be making stuff up again to cover your lack of understanding of the discussion and subject in general.
I have repeatedly said is that short term outcome or result is not a measure of strategic approach, which it isn’t.
You seem to have changed that to businesses don’t measure performance at differing timeframes?
Nice strawman. |
If that is true you have only said what the "measure of strategic approach" isn't.
What is it then? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:52 - Jul 25 with 989 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:49 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
If that is true you have only said what the "measure of strategic approach" isn't.
What is it then? |
WHat do you mean “if” that is true
Strategic approach and the long or short term factors behind it can be evaluated, not measured. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:57 - Jul 25 with 982 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:52 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
WHat do you mean “if” that is true
Strategic approach and the long or short term factors behind it can be evaluated, not measured. |
The "measure of strategic approach" can be evaluated?
So you have nothing.
Thanks for clearing that up. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:00 - Jul 25 with 968 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:57 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
The "measure of strategic approach" can be evaluated?
So you have nothing.
Thanks for clearing that up. |
“Is NOT a measure of strategic approach”
Quote properly and don’t be so disingenuous in defeat. Go down bravely.
Strategic approach cannot be measured by short term results. Simple. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 19:01]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:04 - Jul 25 with 956 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:00 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
“Is NOT a measure of strategic approach”
Quote properly and don’t be so disingenuous in defeat. Go down bravely.
Strategic approach cannot be measured by short term results. Simple. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 19:01]
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How do you know if it is working or not? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:09 - Jul 25 with 932 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:04 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
How do you know if it is working or not? |
“If it is working” is not the debate. This is what is confusing you.
The debate is determining what the approach is.
Maybe have another read of the thread? Or just drum it in that you cannot determine what a business approach is by short term success - you may then stop the questions that clearly show you aren’t following this. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:12 - Jul 25 with 924 views | Jack11 |
Objective, strategy, tactics - simple as that. Fin. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:19 - Jul 25 with 890 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:09 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
“If it is working” is not the debate. This is what is confusing you.
The debate is determining what the approach is.
Maybe have another read of the thread? Or just drum it in that you cannot determine what a business approach is by short term success - you may then stop the questions that clearly show you aren’t following this. |
The debate is determining what the approach is?
That's a highly selective interpretation of how you originally framed it:
"Laudrups signings were a short term money shot. A money shot which cost the club dearly for short term gain. How many of his signings were able to be moved on at a profit? I can’t think of one. " | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:24 - Jul 25 with 873 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:19 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
The debate is determining what the approach is?
That's a highly selective interpretation of how you originally framed it:
"Laudrups signings were a short term money shot. A money shot which cost the club dearly for short term gain. How many of his signings were able to be moved on at a profit? I can’t think of one. " |
I framed it absolutely crystal clearly, quote the post after that and every single one since you decided to misunderstand another thread if you like - they will all say the same.
Laudrups reign was a short term model and not one to pine for as there is no possible way for its longevity - it’s like pining for Santa Claus.. or a modicum of sense in your case.
You decided that it meant profit from one hand picked date to another. When you were told it is irrelevant he made a loss that you framed as a profit - you went down a host of rabbit holes, each as ridiculous as the next and each confusing you more than the last.
Their ethos was short termist as it has pretty much always been. Sorry to break it to you. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:27 - Jul 25 with 865 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:19 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
The debate is determining what the approach is?
That's a highly selective interpretation of how you originally framed it:
"Laudrups signings were a short term money shot. A money shot which cost the club dearly for short term gain. How many of his signings were able to be moved on at a profit? I can’t think of one. " |
In fact, Dim, it is almost as if you were proposing we should evaluate the success of Laudrup's strategy, which you refer to as 'money shot', on the basis of how much profit was made!
That's funny, because that is precisely how a business would evaluate performance which you just said could not and is not done.
So we have in fact gone full circle with you effectively arguing against yourself.
And still the world turns. | |
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