 | Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 20:46 5 Jun 2017
Thats the million dollar question. If we can police them, control our borders and cancel citizenship of anyone who goes or has been to fight for IS that would be a start. As much of a response is needed outside the UK as in it. How do you fight a death cult ideology and stop its reach into GB?
What's the alternative? Internment camps? Who decides who gets interned, where are they held, how do you 'reform' them, what if you can't, what's the knock on effect of IS manipulating it as proof of how the West views and treats Muslims?
I'm no bleeding heart on this, I've witnessed and been directly affected by some of the recent events and something has to be done, but measured and thought through. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 19:32 5 Jun 2017
Erm yes you are, no response to the Tory cuts to the very Institutions that are there to monitor and protect its citizens. Police, Border Agency and Intelligence. With news that Abedi was known, and allowed to travel unhindered to Libya and back. Individuals involved reported to authorities but no manpower to follow it up.
This situation has come about in a large part due to the actions of the current Government. That's not a party political broadcast for any other group. It's a fact.
Once again, if there are laws and clear grounds to lock people up, then do it. I think we agree that there needs to be more done and yes, if someone is clearly a terrorist or preaching hate / radical Islam, then lock them up or deport if not a British citizen. Hysterical rounding up of people without just cause is also anti-British (in spirit and law) and is what IS / similar factions want. Again, look at Guantanamo Bay as the recent example of failure and what turned into propaganda for the enemy. At the same time, it is about ensuring that Muslims feel they can turn in people who are radicalised or are being radicalised. Widespread internment is a danger to that.
There can be a measured response that will work. It starts with rebuilding the relevant Services.
I'm not entirely at odds with you, just against a knee jerk reaction and losing part of what supposedly makes Britain great. [Post edited 5 Jun 2017 19:32]
|
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 20:42 4 Jun 2017
That's all you've got? No answer to anything other than to try and change the argument to something trivial and not comparable.
If we declare War on a country, that's one thing. Fighting religious extremism amongst British Citizens is something else entirely. In some cases, it's easy to pinpoint some dangerous religious fanatics, but it gets harder to define with others and who decides on who gets interned? It starts to get a bit 1984, and that's what Wars were fought against. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 15:41 4 Jun 2017
They're stretched, yes. They're not hindered by this weird obsession with PC.
Korea, China, Russia, Organised Crime, Cybercrime, Irish sectarian resurgence...but it's all them Muslims really. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 15:27 4 Jun 2017
Simply not true. There has been some moves to start funding them properly but it will take a long time to get where they need to be. Should have been recruiting years ago.
Difficult job but they do so much more than is publicised. Again, Abedi shows the shortcomings in numbers. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 15:14 4 Jun 2017
That's exactly what you're saying! Exactly the sort of actions that would happen under IS. Round up who? Anyone on a 'list'? Anyone linked to someone on a list?
Guantanamo Bay is a good example of why lawless internment fails. If anything it made things worse.
We have good and effective Intelligence Agencies. Fund them. Let them do their job. If you're against that then you're flying in the face of reality. Nothing wrong with being angry at evil scumbags, but not at the expense of losing the very values you're supposedly standing up for. The ones that our relatives (including every race / religion) fought World Wars for. You know, not living under Totalitarianism - left or right.
Chronic cuts, particularly Border Agency and Intelligence is one of the main reasons we are having this conversation. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 14:48 4 Jun 2017
Again though, assuming you're right, your answer is to give in to them?
The answer, to me, is to allow the Agencies who can do something have the funding and manpower. End of. They've done a very good job on the whole, foiling multiple attacks.
Abedi proved just how limited those resources are though. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 14:30 4 Jun 2017
The Muslims I've met, the majority of whom work in Policing and Healthcare, don't fit your profile. Yet, you're labelling an entire swathe of the population with the same brush.
We have a problem in this country, along with many other countries. There is a job to be done but demonising everyone that's 'Muslim' is once again, playing into the wrong people's hands.
There are some big questions to be asked of our Government- cuts to Police, Intelligence and Borders Agency. If you can't see a link between that and where we are then it's defying logic. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 14:15 4 Jun 2017
That's conflating a few arguments. You're talking like it's the 50s and overlooking that most of the various incoming Commonwealth communities did indeed settle and integrate. West Indians, Indians, Pakistanis. That's the basis of Multiculturalism that Powell was on about, and he was wrong.
We do have a problem with home grown terrorists who have been allowed to come and go with ease. That's where we need border control. That's where I have major issues with UK policy. Definite grounds for withdrawing citizenship.
There is a clear link between our involvement in conflict abroad. That doesn't mean that there's a free pass for UK born terrorists. Nor does it mean that there are tens of thousands of people who hate our way of life. Even if you're right, your answer is actually to give in and change our society, our democracy and way of life! Change laws, undermine democratic process, reduce freedoms, forced internments etc. That's what the terrorists want. That's what IS were trying to create themselves.
I'm no fan of Corbyn, I'm not sticking up for him, just saying that it's a diversionary tactic to avoid looking at the real reasons behind the failings of the Security Services.
Of course we need a response to what is going on, but knee jerk reactions playing into the hands of the very people we are up against is no answer.
I'm not against a robust response and then to ensure that our Security Services have the manpower and tools to protect us all. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 13:01 4 Jun 2017
I'd be the first to agree that we need a better approach to how we deal with overseas returnees.
Crime isn't coming down, especially violent crime. Reporting methods have changed though. I've worked in London alongside the police for a few years, very closely for the past 2 years. Violent crime is on the rise. Shootings, stabbings and acid attacks as a matter of course.
Counter Terrorism has seen some increase in spending, mostly into frontline stuff. Reactively though, to what we all knew was coming. That is not how I want my Government to run things. There is still a massive gap in the funding to intelligence services. Redirecting funds now (from other essential parts of the emergency services!) is acting after the event.
It just sickens me that the very people who have overseen the cuts are being lauded as the only solution. They helped to create the problem. That should never be forgotten. Forget Corbyn for one minute and look logically at how we got to this position. |
| Forum
Reply | BREAKING NEWS: Another Muslim terrorist attack
at 11:59 4 Jun 2017
So hang people from lampposts who don't agree with you? Sounds a bit like what the terrorists like to do. Irony eh?
There's only one PM who has overseen massive cuts to to the Security and Emergency Services funding and it isn't Corbyn. I'm not a labour voter either, but don't overlook which Government has underfunded the very Services getting blamed for not being able to cope. This stupid diversion that it "cannot be Labour in power", is wilfully ignorant of why it's harder for the police and MI5 to cope with the intelligence side. Tory cuts and ideology. [Post edited 4 Jun 2017 11:59]
|
| Forum
Reply | I see that IRA terrorist supporter
at 09:45 11 Nov 2013
Isn't wearing a poppy a choice? When did it become compulsory?
Arguably, a lot of fallen servicemen were fighting for a cause involving freedom, which would include the freedom to choose whether to wear a poppy or not.
It doesn't cast the player in a great light, but there's a lot worse things to get worked up about. |
| Forum
Reply | FIVE YEAR PLAN
at 17:45 28 Apr 2012
Luck? You make your own luck. Over the course of the season we've won or drawn a few games we shouldn't have...but we've lost or drawn a lot more we should have won. It's balanced itself out though by the very final whistle.
Hard work has paid off for Saints. |
| Forum
Reply | Ultras
at 11:47 27 Apr 2012
Instead of Ultras they should be call 'Ubers' or c**ts. Either works. |
| Forum
Reply | The difference tonight between us and Reading
at 22:53 13 Apr 2012
Ffs, I thought we were discussing their amazing defence?
So Saints let themselves down by not scoring and Reading's keeper played a blinder in stopping them. Saints defence is of course ropey, no denying that. Genuinely pissed off we lost that match though, was there for the taking. |
| | StEtienne
|
Site Scores| Forum Votes: | 1 | | Comment Votes: | 0 | | Prediction League: | 0 | | TOTAL: | 1 |
|
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.