Forum | so, where are we really? by basilrobbiereborn

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so, where are we really? 13:25 - Sep 11 with 5021 views

I doubt anyone would argue with the assertion that the period since the end of last season has been as dismaying, and as surreal, as any that most of us will remember for supporters of Blackpool FC.

The black farce shows no sign of ending soon either, if the events - or nonevents - of this week are anything to go by. All you can say at the end of it is that the manager remains as stubborn as ever, and the chairman as seemingly impotent and indecisive as he has ever been in all his time at the club.

People are naturally upset and angry about all this. We all want the club to do well, and I've got into hot water in the past for saying that I want the chairman to succeed. My argument is that as all of us who follow the club have a vested interest in him doing that aspect of his job well.

The pity of it is , is that there are some things about his stewardship that I DO like. His refusal to pay agents who often do more to obstruct deals than promote them is admirable. His unwillingness to spend large amounts of money on transfer fees when other ways of recruiting are available is, to my mind, eminently sensible.

There is, however, a big "but". The inability or unwillingness to communicate with supporters has reached a truly baffling pitch now ; this week I've heard two strong rumours about new managers set to arrive at the club, only for nothing to happen - and no explanation to be forthcoming.

It is this last saga that has most disappointed me. Quite apart from the obvious risk of being guilty of constructive dismissal, openly touting for a new man whilst the current one is in situ is unprofessional and discourteous to an extraordinary degree. None of us know for certain what has caused the relationship between KO and JR to deteriorate to such a level ; but the truth is that only they can do something about it, and do something they must if we are to get away from the foot of the table and out of the mess we are in.

This becomes all the more important when you consider that the season has barely started and it is still well within our grasp to catch up to others in the bottom half. Two home wins in the next few days would go a long way to getting us back in contention, and we can only hope that two weeks of fitness work will help the players to deliver them. But it needs a common focus from everyone from the chairman down on winning football matches against what will be confident opponents.

Procrastination is often said to be the thief of time. It will also rob us of a status we waited 29 long years to get back if the people at the top of the club don't start pulling in the same direction now. And as the chairman, I think the onus is with KO to decide NOW whether JR is part of the team or not, and be clear with us all one way or the other.

[Post edited 11 Sep 2014 15:44]

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so, where are we really? on 14:18 - Sep 11 with 4128 views

Thames

"All you can say at the end of it is that the manager remains as stubborn as ever, and the chairman as seemingly impotent and indecisive as he has ever been in all his time at the club"

I think you have impotent and stubborn the wrong way round

so, where are we really? on 14:21 - Sep 11 with 4126 views

PNENIL

Surely for something to be admirable it's got to be done with the best of intentions? If KO was refusing to pay agents for the good of the game as some kind of moral guardian of football, reinvesting that money saved back into the club then fair enough. That doesn't happen though does it ?
The same about not paying large amounts on transfer fee's with other ways of recruiting being sensible. If we were serious about that and had any kind of proper recruitment plan in place then fair enough. But we don't do we? It's scattergun and has no rhyme or reason to it . We are the primark of football buying things cheaply to last 9 months , discarding and starting all over again. That's what we have become and there is nothing to like about that .

so, where are we really? on 14:34 - Sep 11 with 4117 views

Lytham_FY8

We also only recruit on year long contracts, which isn't admirable, it's bloody stupid. If we recruit at all, as apparently loans are the future, despite adding zero stability or assets to the club.

' His unwillingness to spend large amounts of money on transfer fees when other ways of recruiting are available is, to my mind, eminently sensible. '

Yet it was a policy that led us to having only five players on the book, which led on to this mess. It's about as far from sensible as it's possible to be, it's penny pinching, nothing else.

His stance on agents is the same, I suppose he doesn't believe there's a conflict of morals with the estate agency.

Our transfer position would be sort of acceptable if we had no money, but we've had vast amounts of it going through the club and straight out in to the Oyston coffers, no one can argue against that as the facts are there in the accounts.

The man is a poison and should resign, don't be too hasty in dismissing that possibility, his position is virtually untenable, despite being the son of the owner, the owner who only rates cash above his own popularity.

If you appoint a manager you're supposed to back him, which is Riga's stance, why this makes him the villian of the piece in some eyes is completely baffling. He's standing his ground, which he's entitled to do, if he goes and someone else arrives who's willing to work to Oyston's ridiculous ways, we'll just be back in this situation in May.

It has to stop, but it has to stop with Oyston going, not the manager. The manager leaving stops nothing.

[Post edited 11 Sep 2014 15:35]

"The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"

so, where are we really? on 16:06 - Sep 11 with 4021 views

KhonKaenSeasider

In the sh1t with this family making the decisions on player investment and wages, isn't it obvious yet?

It will absolutely change the club forever if we go up. It canâ€™t fail to

so, where are we really? on 16:26 - Sep 11 with 4003 views

hertfordseasider

so, where are we really? on 16:06 - Sep 11 by KhonKaenSeasider
In the sh1t with this family making the decisions on player investment and wages, isn't it obvious yet?

I'm at a loss for words!!

so, where are we really? on 17:21 - Sep 11 with 3943 views

hackneyseasider

so, where are we really? on 16:26 - Sep 11 by hertfordseasider
I'm at a loss for words!!

PNENIL is correct - not paying agents is not some moral crusade, KOKO does not spend money period.

Although it is probable the more learned supporters may correct me, I cannot recall any substantial investment undertaken by KOKO approaching the level of Valeri Belekon, or anything KOKO has clearly planned for using his finances which has had a positive impact on the club of the same magnitude that Belokon's money has brought. We can all link the stand and Ollie's team with Valeri, why can't we do the same for Karl?

Because we can't, that's why. The chairman, by his actions, has taken millions out of the club but I can't remember any significant outlay going the other way.

so, where are we really? on 18:29 - Sep 11 with 3895 views

bottle

so, where are we really? on 17:21 - Sep 11 by hackneyseasider

I recall that Owen Oyston really backed Sam Allardyce when we saw the likes of Ellis, Preece, Morrison etc come into the squad as he rebuilt a team that just missed out on promotion - I'll leave the circumstances alone with all the urban myths that surround that season. Needless to say gates actually rose that season and it was a small beginning to where we eventually peaked in the PL

Whilst other clubs around us splashed the cash, we seemed to strike a balance by picking up cast offs rejects and the odd quality player who mysteriously gelled and brought small time success back to what was a small time club. BFC are no sleeping giant by any means but I always thought that Karl Oyston supported the managers who served under his Chairmanship to a degree.

With Belekon's arrival and his hilarious assertion that Blackpool would be in the Prem in 5 years and then a stream of some quality players coming into the club and the raise of the Armfield stand and "the best trip" years I feel something has changed.

Someone mentioned it above - the association with the new stand, the premier league, Charlie Adam, DJ Campbell and Ian Holloway then who do we think of? Is it Karl and Owen Oyston? Is it Jimbo? No, it's good old Uncle Val!

This Johnny come lately has the nerve to turn up and cause success! Are recent actions by the Oyston clan really a fit of pique that THEY - those long term custodians and saviours of Blackpool FC - is this the reason we are seeing the current situation, someone feels that THEY should be the cult hero, the person who dared to stand up to those beastly agents, the man who remained unbowed by unreasonable player demands.

Are we the supporters suffering because the ego of one man who holds all the cards demands that he be considered the true hero in our recent saga and not some pipsqueak upstart from Latvia who put his money where his mouth was and did everything against the Oyston grain and achieved.

I think a very bitter man is trying his damnedest to make us all suffer for our failure to recognise the true heroes here (in his eyes not mine I hasten to add) and yes, I really do think he has taken this so very personally and is lashing out like the spoilt brat most of us believe he is.

so, where are we really? on 18:34 - Sep 11 with 3892 views

tangerinesince1970

Basil I feel compelled to challenge your praise for what you consider to be KO's financial prudence. It's really about spending the absolute minimum in order to maximise the revenues that can be accessed for personal enrichment.

so, where are we really? on 18:57 - Sep 11 with 3850 views

Tejas

Like a few people have pointed out, this issue with Agents is not all it seems. There is a whiff of hypocracy in the air and double standards are obvious to be honest. Due to the work I'm in (ex military and now part of a multi-national Company) I have bought and sold 7 houses in the last 30 years. It depresses me to think how much I have splashed out on estate agents - who in my mind do very little for the vast amounts of money they charge. The Oystons have done very well (and continue to do so) out of the "Agent" game - when it suits them! Also, their end game is not in the best interests of the Club at all, but personal wealth. I see none of this money they've saved being put back into the Football Club and instead see their own family business enterprises receiving some rather large "loans" and subsidies. The other issue is that all the other Clubs don't appear to have a problem here - just us, or being more precis, just Oyston. This means we don't compete - at any level. In terms of wanting Oyston to succeed, why? His success metrics are clearly not ours and being blunt I'm not the slightest bit interested in watching an already rich family get even richer on the back of milking the hopes and dreams of people with far less wealth. It all makes Owen Oyston's old claims to champion socialism to be a complete sham. Oyston's risk strategy then is very clear, he will not risk his measure of success (personal wealth) against success on the field - no matter how much we may want him to. This is why he is more than happy to wait for freebies in the player market, even when it puts at risk our ability to be prepared for the start of the season. Success on the field is just not on his agenda. I simply can't see us moving forward with this Chairman, or any others appointed by the Oystons.

so, where are we really? on 19:18 - Sep 11 with 3819 views

Letsbasham

You give the man far too much credit......Karl that is......

so, where are we really? on 19:47 - Sep 11 with 3778 views

scu70

so, where are we really? on 14:18 - Sep 11 by Thames
"All you can say at the end of it is that the manager remains as stubborn as ever, and the chairman as seemingly impotent and indecisive as he has ever been in all his time at the club" I think you have impotent and stubborn the wrong way round

Basilrobbiereborn probably the best post I've read in a while on both sites.

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so, where are we really? on 20:03 - Sep 11 with 3764 views

bfcpete

so, where are we really? on 19:47 - Sep 11 by scu70
Basilrobbiereborn probably the best post I've read in a while on both sites.

BRR - the reality is that we would have none of this would have happened if KO had properly backed JR and the managers before him. The problem is KO

[Post edited 11 Sep 2014 20:57]

so, where are we really? on 20:19 - Sep 11 with 3741 views

voyeur

It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that Oyston's refusal to pay agents is admirable, and to pay transfer fees is sensible? Are you really actually this gullible? Be honest, do you actually believe he does this with the club's interests at heart?

I am a nutter. I come from the sea.

so, where are we really? on 20:28 - Sep 11 with 3730 views

basilrobbiereborn

so, where are we really? on 20:19 - Sep 11 by voyeur
It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that Oyston's refusal to pay agents is admirable, and to pay transfer fees is sensible? Are you really actually this gullible? Be honest, do you actually believe he does this with the club's interests at heart?

He's been doing it for a long time, and if you take the Caddis "deal" as an example, I'm not sure what he could - or should -have done differently.

Your ability to pick one paragraph out of a long post and ignore the rest is truly impressive.

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Blog:	pause for breath

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so, where are we really? on 20:36 - Sep 11 with 3725 views

Hooleys

Not paying agents maybe the right thing to do,however if you're the only one ,not doing so!you probably wont get your main targets!!
You will always get players ,but not necessarily the right ones or calibre!

On other issues ,Karl said he'd learnt from past mistakes,well it looks like he hasn't learnt anything,as the mistakes are happening again but worse.

so, where are we really? on 20:51 - Sep 11 with 3703 views

voyeur

so, where are we really? on 20:36 - Sep 11 by Hooleys
Not paying agents maybe the right thing to do,however if you're the only one ,not doing so!you probably wont get your main targets!! You will always get players ,but not necessarily the right ones or calibre! On other issues ,Karl said he'd learnt from past mistakes,well it looks like he hasn't learnt anything,as the mistakes are happening again but worse.

Are you replying to everyone there Robbie? Cos we all seem to get what's really going on.

I am a nutter. I come from the sea.

so, where are we really? on 21:08 - Sep 11 with 3682 views

Hertsseasider

so, where are we really? on 20:51 - Sep 11 by voyeur
Are you replying to everyone there Robbie? Cos we all seem to get what's really going on.

Hi Robbie

In the spirit of debate a few questions..( and its nice to debate here which you cannot do on the other site)

You say Riga is a stubborn as ever. Considering he has been here not very long on what do you base this view ? You appear to state that Karl's reluctance to talk to the fans is his biggest failing. really ? what about investment, backing his manager(s) etc etc. And finally, you ask that Karl makes his position on Riga clear. By going after Coyle and the bloke at Burton, don't you think he has already done that.

Love to LaReborn and see you at Brighton, Gonna be another top day out.

"Schools Out London"

so, where are we really? on 22:07 - Sep 11 with 3625 views

ribble

Robbie

It seems to me that the decision has already been made on Riga - he's effectively a dead man walking - so it's too late for any turnarounds as far as the manager and his working relationship with KO is concerned.

But to answer the question. Where are we? In one hell of an unholy mess and, it has to be said, a mess entirely of Karl's own making. Whether by design or pure ill judgement, almost every key decision made by the Chairman over the last two years has been poor or just plain wrong. The last 12 months in particular has bordered on gross mismanagement. And I say that as someone who has defended the Chairman in the past and even now can recognise the achievements in his first 10 years in the post. But all that is now firmly in the past.

There's no point in listing the charge sheet - it's been done a thousand times before - but the time has come for Owen to pull KO out of this steaming mess and appoint a CEO who can run the football club as a football club and rebuild from the bottom up and be properly financially supported in doing so.

Whether that will happen is, of course, a moot point but I'm now genuinely fearing for the future of the club if it doesn't.

[Post edited 11 Sep 2014 22:10]

so, where are we really? on 22:24 - Sep 11 with 3601 views

basilrobbiereborn

so, where are we really? on 21:08 - Sep 11 by Hertsseasider

ribble/herts

thanks for the replies.

The reason I picked out communications is that I think the lack of it - or the contradictory nature of it - is what causes most anger. Especially when people can't relate it to consequent action.

On Riga - well, I hear things that suggest he isn't the blameless and valiant warrior that some would like us to believe he is - and hanging on as he is doing now is as much out of self-interest as anything else. But I would do the same in his place. My point is, this is NOT a marriage made in heaven.

ribble - tend to agree with you that over the last two years KO has lost the ability to make good managerial appointments and compounded that with an inability to recognise and acknowledge LEGITIMATE criticism of him. And whilst I've never advocated appointing a CEO, I have more than once said that he needs to devolve a budget to a manager and Director of Football and concentrate on administering the club.

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so, where are we really? on 22:40 - Sep 11 with 3587 views

ribble

so, where are we really? on 22:24 - Sep 11 by basilrobbiereborn

Communications and PR at the club has always been poor, especially recently, not in the least bit helped by KO's recent barely disguised contempt for some of his paying customers. Comparisons have been made with Ratner and I can see why. With all the toxic publicity over the last few months, it's evident that KO has become a liability to the business and has to go.

[Post edited 11 Sep 2014 23:36]

so, where are we really? on 23:07 - Sep 11 with 3562 views

Lytham_FY8

so, where are we really? on 20:28 - Sep 11 by basilrobbiereborn
He's been doing it for a long time, and if you take the Caddis "deal" as an example, I'm not sure what he could - or should -have done differently. Your ability to pick one paragraph out of a long post and ignore the rest is truly impressive.

And your ability to pick one deal out of a long history of inexplicable failures isn't that impressive really.

"The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"

so, where are we really? on 23:28 - Sep 11 with 3548 views

Thames

so, where are we really? on 23:07 - Sep 11 by Lytham_FY8
And your ability to pick one deal out of a long history of inexplicable failures isn't that impressive really.

BRR,

Just one question for you;

What are the plus points, from Riga's perspective, of behaving the way you think/hear he has?

Also with the consideration that he has not outwardly changed his behaviour at all since his first week at the club

so, where are we really? on 23:38 - Sep 11 with 3533 views

basilrobbiereborn

so, where are we really? on 23:28 - Sep 11 by Thames
BRR, Just one question for you; What are the plus points, from Riga's perspective, of behaving the way you think/hear he has? Also with the consideration that he has not outwardly changed his behaviour at all since his first week at the club

Thames

when you're on a rolling contract, you want to get paid off, if and when the time does come to go. So walking of your own accord isn't really a great option, financially speaking.

I don't blame him in the slightest.

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so, where are we really? on 23:55 - Sep 11 with 3526 views

PNENIL

so, where are we really? on 23:38 - Sep 11 by basilrobbiereborn
Thames when you're on a rolling contract, you want to get paid off, if and when the time does come to go. So walking of your own accord isn't really a great option, financially speaking. I don't blame him in the slightest.

[Post edited 12 Sep 2014 0:00]

so, where are we really? on 01:47 - Sep 12 with 3486 views

seasider13

Good OP robbie, i agree with most of it,

The in house bickering has to stop, this is heading for our third fallow season and we cant keep blaming the manager, its time for CEO to take a long hard look at his policys.

Without some V.B. type input we are failling as a Club in most departments.

No man is rich enough to buy back his past.

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