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Although the 2014 accounts have not been published and submitted to Companies House in respect of Swansea City AFC ,the Trust has just published their 2014 accounts on their new website. From these one thing stands out.The Trust has received a further dividend for the 2014 year of £210,000 which means that a total dividend of £1m has been declared and paid to all the shareholders. This means that for each £100,000 originally invested by each shareholder they have now received a Return of £300,000, that is, three times their original investments. If it is true that they are also looking to sell their shares to the American investors there is only one thing that can be said about them They are greedy bastards who are no different to Mr Petty, the man they once decried. Surely they should now do a Mel Nurse, and gift their shares back to the club, and prove that they are men of integrity and not the crap that they appear to be turning into.
I don't think anyone really begrudges the board a share in the success money wise that they have played a big part in.
All I would say is that in agreement with several other posters, in so much as they have a moral duty to support the trust to protect the club. If that is done in free shares to increase the trust's holding way above the 21% they have now then great. The directors will still walk away very wealthy men indeed
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 17:04 - Nov 4 with 1664 views
The stadium expansion has been mentioned in this thread and apologies for being dumb or missing a point but without the club owning the stadium how does expanding the stadium generate sufficient return on the outlay?
For a stadium that we don't own if i understand correctly: the swans would pay for the expansion but the gatemoney generated would go to Stadco with Stadco splitting the money between the Swans Ospreys and Council. Unless there was an unequal split in the additional revenue the return would be slow with no guarantee of filling the stadium if we got relegated.
If this is correct I could understand us looking for finances to purchase the stadium and expand, although that would in turn make us a more attractive takeover proposition with a stadium to borrow against or move holding company debt onto.
Buying more expensive players and paying higher wages is an easy way to lose money with the size of our fan base. We would not be able to get a stadium big enough and fill it to go down that road. Any investor would be looking for the opposite, an easy way to make money.
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 17:06 - Nov 4 with 1661 views
Next thought......as the comments and thoughts today have been superb.
The Trust now have a working relationship with the Club. Maybe it's not perfect, maybe (sometimes) they're seen as a pain in the arse and possibly a "necessary evil" that they have to officially inform of in certain circumstances. Huw Cooze' job is a tough one and he deserves credit for making sure that this relationship hasn't gone pear-shaped already.
What if the Trust members vote unanimously against a sale, or "investment" as Huw Jenkins wrongly called it? What happens if the fans back the Trust and then make their opinions known....before, during and after games?
What if there was a power struggle of sorts and fan power won over "greedy Directors" as some might call them if there was such an issue?
What position would that leave the Trust in? They would be left in a partnership that was....difficult, to say the least.
For example, if the Trust and fans believed that debt wasn't necessary, a sale of shares wasn't necessary and the potential owners had the wrong intentions???
If the Trust lost the battle, they would see some of the Directors fly off into the night with their flash cars and lovely financial security. The Trust would then be left trying to heal a relationship that was broken and damaged before it started.
Either way, it's going to be REALLY hard for the Trust board and therefore even more essential that the fans make their feelings known to the Board.
The way I see if is.....if the Trust is going to "lose" anyway, at least lose on their terms, which mean securing 25% and protection for the future.
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 17:04 - Nov 4 by dobjack2
The stadium expansion has been mentioned in this thread and apologies for being dumb or missing a point but without the club owning the stadium how does expanding the stadium generate sufficient return on the outlay?
For a stadium that we don't own if i understand correctly: the swans would pay for the expansion but the gatemoney generated would go to Stadco with Stadco splitting the money between the Swans Ospreys and Council. Unless there was an unequal split in the additional revenue the return would be slow with no guarantee of filling the stadium if we got relegated.
If this is correct I could understand us looking for finances to purchase the stadium and expand, although that would in turn make us a more attractive takeover proposition with a stadium to borrow against or move holding company debt onto.
Buying more expensive players and paying higher wages is an easy way to lose money with the size of our fan base. We would not be able to get a stadium big enough and fill it to go down that road. Any investor would be looking for the opposite, an easy way to make money.
With regards to the expansion, it's not a case of us wanting to expand to increase revenue, at least in the short term. We need to expand in order to grow the fanbase. To get people in watching us play who currently can't.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 18:57 - Nov 4 with 1525 views
"The number of groups interested in large investment without control is tiny by proportion. If our board have unlocked that door then they’ve found a golden key"
Agreed. Just got to make absolutely sure that all that glitters is indeed gold.
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 18:22 - Nov 4 by Dr_Winston
With regards to the expansion, it's not a case of us wanting to expand to increase revenue, at least in the short term. We need to expand in order to grow the fanbase. To get people in watching us play who currently can't.
Wouldn't we get the gate receipts though? I don't know how the finances work wrt the stadium. Do we get all gate receipts and just pay rent, or share/give up gate receipts and this is taken into account in the lower rent (that was talked about in the media last year?). Does the trust provide info on how things like this work, or would we need to dig into end of year accounts to find out? Anyone know?
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 19:42 - Nov 4 with 1469 views
Holy sh1t. How superficial and naïve is that article?? So lets ask again, where is the 'investment' and what's in it for the 'investor'. Even if the astonishing assumptions in that 'analysis' hold water...a minority investor buying existing shares at ridiculously inflated prices, and expecting at least commensurate returns...tell me how that helps the club please, and where this other mythical £15m per year comes from to bolster the playing squad?
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:24 - Nov 4 by Phil_S
All the consultation will have to be done with a level of knowledge. We cannot take anyone's view without at least giving them some detail as to what is happening, what the options are and possibly even what our recommendation is from the experts we have been consulting with
"Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? "
An interesting question. Now if they said they wanted to work with us then I guess there wouldn't be an issue but there may still be a question of do we work with them with less shares and the cash in the bank from the sale of those. Not saying that is the plan or the strategy but we need to make everyone aware of all the options during a consultation
As I said technically (and legally) we do not need to take this to a consultation process, it is clear that the Trust board is set up to make these decisions on the behalf of the membership. However, I would not be comfortable that the decision was taken without the consultation and I don't think there are many on the Trust board who would be
Without banging jackonicko's drum for him, the time to join the Trust is now
Thanks for your replies, Phil.
What good would the cash in the bank do? For a rainy day?
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 20:04 - Nov 4 with 1439 views
I'm also a bit uncertain as to why we cannot borrow money to invest in the stadium. The figures quoted are around £12m for 6,000 seats or approximately £2,000 per seat.
If these were sold as season tickets every season at around £500 each, within 4 seasons (which they'll start selling as soon as they know it'll be ready for next season), that money would be made back surely? Obviously there'll be interest payable on any loan but those seats will also be making money on match day expenditure, plus any cup matches (minus any upkeep/staffing).
It seems to me that this sort of borrowing is the equivalent of someone taking out a mortgage which most would see as an investment or 'sensible' borrowing. Who would have any issue with the board borrowing money to do that? Why wouldn't someone lend that relatively small amount of money knowing the sort of returns we are very likely to get on it?
What concerns me is that the money would be used to invest in the playing staff when it is not really needed as long as we continue to be sensible and sign the right players. That sort of borrowing is similar to the one described in the post above with the Ferrari, massive house, holidays every month and so on which would be a complete no-no as far as I'm concerned
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 20:21 - Nov 4 with 1415 views
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 18:22 - Nov 4 by Dr_Winston
With regards to the expansion, it's not a case of us wanting to expand to increase revenue, at least in the short term. We need to expand in order to grow the fanbase. To get people in watching us play who currently can't.
I agree with your reasons for expanding, but from a business and money side of things I can't get my head around the whole Stadco thing and where the money goes.
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 20:29 - Nov 4 with 1408 views
I don't like to be overly critical, but that article has so little relevance to the current situation that he might as well just reprinted this week's Snoopy cartoon.
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 20:21 - Nov 4 by dobjack2
I agree with your reasons for expanding, but from a business and money side of things I can't get my head around the whole Stadco thing and where the money goes.
The club pay a cut of takings, to cover costs only.
Doesn't explain why the investment is positive to me. Also £15M has previously been quoted as the entire expansion, not the 1st stage East stand. The club has also so far managed £15M profits and kept a squad to compete at this level.
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:21 - Nov 4 by Phil_S
That would be the only real advantage to it but there would have to be even more safeguards in place
Its all hypothetical though at the moment!
But surely once the shares have been sold for stupid money now, it will be out of the reach of the Trust (and even the existing shareholders) pretty much until we're on the brink of going out of existence, wont it?
Either the price of buying new shares will be too high or the debt owed by the club will be too high. The new guy could drive the club into the ground and then sell it to the next nutcase owner just as has happened at Pompey or Cardiff.
If any new owner doesn't want to work with the Trust owning 20% of the club then quite frankly is that in itself enough to suggest he's bad news?
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:25 - Nov 5 with 1147 views
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:07 - Nov 5 by AngelRangelQS
But surely once the shares have been sold for stupid money now, it will be out of the reach of the Trust (and even the existing shareholders) pretty much until we're on the brink of going out of existence, wont it?
Either the price of buying new shares will be too high or the debt owed by the club will be too high. The new guy could drive the club into the ground and then sell it to the next nutcase owner just as has happened at Pompey or Cardiff.
If any new owner doesn't want to work with the Trust owning 20% of the club then quite frankly is that in itself enough to suggest he's bad news?
Not sure about the going out of existence line - shares worth £10m now would not be worth £10m in the Championship for example
Any new owner not wanting to work with the Trust would mean that the last 12 years would have been almost in vain with the aim being long terms security so it would be impossible for us to work with them you are right
Thankfully we are not in a position where we have to sell which is the key thing for me
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A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 08:41 - Nov 5 with 1093 views
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:07 - Nov 5 by AngelRangelQS
But surely once the shares have been sold for stupid money now, it will be out of the reach of the Trust (and even the existing shareholders) pretty much until we're on the brink of going out of existence, wont it?
Either the price of buying new shares will be too high or the debt owed by the club will be too high. The new guy could drive the club into the ground and then sell it to the next nutcase owner just as has happened at Pompey or Cardiff.
If any new owner doesn't want to work with the Trust owning 20% of the club then quite frankly is that in itself enough to suggest he's bad news?
A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:01 - Nov 5 by AngelRangelQS
I quite agree.
I personally don't think that the trust should be looking to sell a single share under any circumstances whatsoever.
I agree.
We will just be two votes though when any proposal is finally put to trust members. Hopefully we will be on the side of the majority.
I urge everyone who is concerned about the current situation to ensure that they have a say in the future of our club and the only way to do that is to join the trust.
Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
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