| What is 'success' for QPR? 12:18 - Mar 24 with 15271 views | FrankieFiveAngels |
This is my first post on LFW. Have to say there's a bit of trepidation as I've read and enjoyed the wit and wisdom on the forum for a long, long time, so thank you for the entertainment and please be gentle!
I'm a ST holder in Ellerslie Road and have followed Rangers since Sept 1972 when we beat Cardiff 3-0 at LR. I was 6 years old and that was that. We've all been through the ups and downs of following Rangers but despite the 2 recent promotions, I found the Briatore and Fernandes regimes hard to square with my idea of what QPR are about. Even so, I am more optimistic than I have been for some time with JFH at the helm so my glass is half full. Over the last couple of games, it seems that for the first time this season most fans expectations are realistic. that we need to build rather than go up this season. It did get me thinking though, about how the club or us as fans, would define what 'success' for QPR actually means. For me, in the short term, it's for us to be in a position where every season isn't a case of "shit or bust", which seems to have been the case every season since TF took over. In the medium term it would be having a team to be proud of, which includes players coming through the ranks. Long term, it would be promotion - don't get me wrong, I want us to be the best we can be, but I think in recent years, we have paid to high a price to get there.. |  | | |  |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 17:39 - Mar 27 with 2195 views | TheBlob |
Well it hasn't deterred a lot of London properties indulging in sub-basement extensions - much to the chagrin of neighbours.I'd still have another stab at acquiring the School,they can be relocated much more easily than stadia. |  |
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| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:06 - Mar 27 with 2182 views | isawqpratwcity |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 17:39 - Mar 27 by TheBlob |
Well it hasn't deterred a lot of London properties indulging in sub-basement extensions - much to the chagrin of neighbours.I'd still have another stab at acquiring the School,they can be relocated much more easily than stadia. |
Lots of London has some decent elevation, but I was just looking at a topographic map of London and most of the relevant area west of Notting Hill is low and flat. Having general stabs in the vicinity of Loftus Road was giving me elevations of 33' +/- 3'. That's pretty low.
http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/London-92172/
Other places doing underground works may be in higher locations, or may consider the necessary preventative engineering expense justified.
Neil_SI was suggesting the purchase of the school. I don't know how much you can increase the capacity of a stadium by increasing the depth of one of the narrow ends. The Ellerslie stand could be redeveloped higher (I presume) because it is north of the properties on Ellerslie Road, and not going to increase residents' shade. That can't be said of South Africa or Loftus Roads. |  |
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| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:12 - Mar 27 with 2180 views | derbyhoop |
If we are still in the Championship when the parachute payments run out, we will be left with an 18,000 capacity ground likely to result in average gates between 12, 14,00-. Our biggest source of income will be the £5.5m from ST sales. Our total revenue will be £15-18m.
If we are to be sustainable, players' wages should be no more than 70% of turnover, probably less. We still have to pay for all the coaching and administrative staff + the bills on a stadium used 25 times per annum. Players do not just include the first team squad of, say, 22. The consequence is the MAXIMUM we could afford to pay any player would be £10k per week. We might get scouting and recruitment absolutely spot on and discover those hidden gems that none of the other clubs at our level can find. If we do all of that, we can become a bottom 1/3 of the Championship club, like Huddersfield today.
If that's what we want, then stay at Loftus Road. If we want something better, then we are going to have to move to a bigger, better stadium. The question is not if, but when. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:17 - Mar 27 with 2174 views | TheBlob |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:06 - Mar 27 by isawqpratwcity |
Lots of London has some decent elevation, but I was just looking at a topographic map of London and most of the relevant area west of Notting Hill is low and flat. Having general stabs in the vicinity of Loftus Road was giving me elevations of 33' +/- 3'. That's pretty low.
http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/London-92172/
Other places doing underground works may be in higher locations, or may consider the necessary preventative engineering expense justified.
Neil_SI was suggesting the purchase of the school. I don't know how much you can increase the capacity of a stadium by increasing the depth of one of the narrow ends. The Ellerslie stand could be redeveloped higher (I presume) because it is north of the properties on Ellerslie Road, and not going to increase residents' shade. That can't be said of South Africa or Loftus Roads. |
Well if you do the correct "tanking" to a sub basement water incursion shouldn't be a problem.There are tons of firms advertising these services and it seems you're more at risk from neighbour disputes than any constructional problems.
The School End you could build up to a Kop-like monstrosity.CP of the Ellerslie Road properties offering new accomodation in the flats incorporating a new stand(maybe with roof gardens). | |
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| What is 'success' for QPR? on 04:40 - Mar 28 with 2098 views | timcocking |
Success for me is a full stadium of fans who are happy and singing and a squad who are proud of the shirt. Preferably winning the champions' league and the premiership, but as long as the team and the fans are doing us proud, i'll enjoy the matches.
I've often thought this "new manager bounce" or as Clive put's for QPR our "new manager dull thud" is as much down to the fans as the players and the manager.
A new manager usually generates a reaction from the crowd, and that energy goes into the team. Because we long suffering Rs all fear our new manager is going to lose his first 20 games, we don't get it. That's why you know Warnock will win for us, just because we all have faith. Anybody else and we're immediately tense. |  | | |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 05:44 - Mar 28 with 2094 views | LadbrokeR |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 11:15 - Mar 26 by PunteR |
We used to be a top London club and lots of people had us as there 2nd favourite team.
I feel we've lost a lot of respect within football. Gaining that respect back,wether its losing that "big spending" QPR tag or just playing consistent good football in whatever league we're in,would go some way in getting respect back.
We sold our soul last time we was in the prem. If we could be a premiership club without the need to buy big name players and keep the core of hardworking,honest players we've brought in from L1 and championship clubs that work to a QPR philosophy,than that to me would be a success story. A bit like the 10/11 season. |
Interesting question and one that prompts a feeling of us having to know our place. I first saw us in 1967 as a 6 year old but don't remember much of it. In light of recent events a stable business model would be good. Although my heart says to establish ourselves as a premiership club. I have often said to pals I would like a few away games in the UEFA cup and if it they were at against a Norwegian fishing village I'd be there. I honestly don't think that's too much look at Stoke Bolton (perhaps not) and Norwich. I was just bit to young for AEK Athens &Colonge. A cup run would be nice but I suppose that's pushing it. |  | | |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 11:21 - Mar 28 with 2060 views | terryb |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:12 - Mar 27 by derbyhoop |
If we are still in the Championship when the parachute payments run out, we will be left with an 18,000 capacity ground likely to result in average gates between 12, 14,00-. Our biggest source of income will be the £5.5m from ST sales. Our total revenue will be £15-18m.
If we are to be sustainable, players' wages should be no more than 70% of turnover, probably less. We still have to pay for all the coaching and administrative staff + the bills on a stadium used 25 times per annum. Players do not just include the first team squad of, say, 22. The consequence is the MAXIMUM we could afford to pay any player would be £10k per week. We might get scouting and recruitment absolutely spot on and discover those hidden gems that none of the other clubs at our level can find. If we do all of that, we can become a bottom 1/3 of the Championship club, like Huddersfield today.
If that's what we want, then stay at Loftus Road. If we want something better, then we are going to have to move to a bigger, better stadium. The question is not if, but when. |
"If we are still in the Championship when the parachute payments run out, we will be left with an 18,000 capacity ground likely to result in average gates between 12, 14,00-. "
Firstly, if we are still in the Championship when the parachute payments finish we would still be playing at loftus Road. No new stadium would have been opened by then.
Secondly, if we are still in the Championship when a new stadium is available for us to play in, the average gate would be no higher than if we were playing at Loftus Road.
Crowds do not increase because of a new stadium. They increase because the population perceive that they will be rewarded by attending.
I am not against moving to a new stadium, but it has to be one that is appropriate to Queens Park Rangers. I am led to believe by people that live in the area, that there are cheaper sites available than Old Oak. These would also be completed in a fraction of the time that Old Oak would take.
However, these would be football grounds & probably not what Tune desire.
Another question would be how many times a year would you expect the new stadium to be used? I would guess that the playing arena would be no more than thirty.
If you are including concert arenas, food halls etc in the site, then you are looking at a mass development & I struggle to believe that OUR club would receive the income (or rental) from these other areas. I also believe that we would probably be renting the stadium ourselves rather than have ownership.
Therefore, we would probably need to be in the top half of the Premier for the income to come close to the expenditure. That includes revenue from Sky etc!
We probably do need to move, but a new stadium has to be realistic for our needs & will not guarentee a brighter future.
Success is competeing at the highest level possible whilst living within your means. | | | |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:17 - Mar 28 with 1985 views | TGRRRSSS |
Can you imagine the furore if we tried to by Jack Tizard???...
Besides the cost of moving them elsewhere then re building just one stand to add.. what2,3 K (at most) extra seats...
I am sure the odd architecht could come up with some great ideas but I really cannot see LR such as the local area is building any further... though I am unsure how Fulahm managed to build there ground up to 25K. |  | | |
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| What is 'success' for QPR? on 22:14 - Mar 28 with 1962 views | Ingham |
Surely terryb is right, derby.
It isn't for lack of wanting to be successful that we aren't, it's for lack of the first clue how to go about doing it. That is the underlying issue that is never addressed. A new ground is easy, compared to a completely new way of playing and winning, effective enough to increase matchday support by 50-100 per cent.
Why is it that, despite all the new stadium proposals we've had since god knows when, we've never seen a QPR with the remorseless determination to succeed that other Clubs have seen in our lifetimes, especially at Liverpool for 30 years.
They changed things on the pitch. Not just for a couple of half-decent seasons, before slumping again. But from promotion in 1962 to the end of the era almost 30 years later. That is very unusual, and that is the point. Dozens if not scores of Clubs have new or redeveloped grounds.
What few of them, virtually none of them ever do, is change things on the pitch. Either one Club dominates them all for 15 years, or a handful share out the honours with the rest nowhere.
Where is the evidence that anybody at QPR has even the first clue how to increase the Club's support in the way that some suggest? Even Gregory didn't. He got much bigger attendances by providing the Club with more of the big occasions that would draw the crowds. We still get bigger turn-outs from our Wembley, play-off and other days out, of course.
But how many of those occasions have we had? We can't even get past the first round in the Cup competitions. Achievement is the yardstick, not ambition. Every bunch of losers has ambition. All you have to do is say the words.
I love LR, but a Club that already had 40,000 season ticket applications year in year out because we were simply that good would be a powerful argument for a new stadium. And in THAT case, it would make sense to ask why any supporter would stand in the Club's way.
My impression is that nobody has ever tackled this problem because it is quite simply beyond them to do so. In fact, it is beyond them even to identify what the problem is in the first place.
Still a great debate. | | | |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 23:25 - Mar 28 with 1941 views | PunteR |
| What is 'success' for QPR? on 18:17 - Mar 28 by TGRRRSSS |
Can you imagine the furore if we tried to by Jack Tizard???...
Besides the cost of moving them elsewhere then re building just one stand to add.. what2,3 K (at most) extra seats...
I am sure the odd architecht could come up with some great ideas but I really cannot see LR such as the local area is building any further... though I am unsure how Fulahm managed to build there ground up to 25K. |
Looking at these pics, we would have to relocate that new small estate next to the school as well if we were to rebuild the school end,unless we have a weird corner stand like newcastle's st james park.
Ellerslie and the Loft would definitely be a no go because of the houses unless they want to sell half their garden. South Africa rd and the corner school end is the only option to rebuild. |  |
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