| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places 07:49 - May 8 with 24316 views | isitme |
The English Football League will next week tell clubs in Leagues One and Two there is no chance of playing any more games this season and ask them to vote on a method to decide promotion and relegation.
EFL chairman Rick Parry told MPs on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee on Wednesday morning that a resolution to the season in the third and fourth tiers was only a matter of days away and it now seems a decision could come as early as Monday or Tuesday.
The Athletic understands the EFL board has already received several proposals from clubs, with the current favourite being a points-per-game (PPG) model weighted to reflect how many games the teams have played home and away.
The rationale for this idea is a non-weighted PPG calculation does not take into account the fact that some teams have four home games left, while others have six.
This season across the Football League, the home team has won 46 per cent of the time, with away teams winning only 26 per cent of the games. Over the last six EFL seasons, the average PPG at home is 1.55, compared to 1.19 away.
Under this method, which has been used to decide the tables in English grassroots club rugby union, each club’s PPG would be worked out for their home and away fixtures, then multiplied by 22 for League One, which had 23 clubs this season because of Bury’s demise last summer, and 23 for League Two and then added together to reach a total for the season.
The Athletic understands that a League One club has prepared a detailed explanation of this method, with a full set of final tables, and emailed it to the EFL board.
With the EFL admitting there is no chance of staging its traditional end-of-season play-offs in Leagues One and Two, the top three sides in the League One will be promoted to the Championship, with three going down to League Two, while four come up from League Two and only one goes down, to restore the EFL to its full quota of 72 teams.
The weighted PPG method does not change the top three in League One at all, meaning Coventry City would be crowned champions, with Rotherham United and Oxford United joining them in the Championship next season. The current bottom three – Tranmere Rovers, Southend United and Bolton Wanderers – would still be the bottom three, although Bolton would climb one spot, leaving Southend in last place.
In League Two, Swindon Town would leapfrog Crewe Alexandra into first place, with Plymouth Argyle staying in third but Cheltenham Town climbing over Exeter City to claim the final promotion spot. Stevenage Borough would remain in last place, despite the seven-point deduction Macclesfield Town received on Thursday for failing to fulfill a fixture or pay their players on time.
The Athletic has spoken to two other EFL clubs who said they were aware of this proposal and several others who said they were not, but every club approached said they knew of at least half a dozen different ideas that were circulating around the league. These include using the current tables to settle the finishing positions, a non-weighted PPG model and an idea to only count the first half of the season, which would be the first 22 games in League One and 23 games in League Two.
Some clubs have discussed using more complicated statistical models that factor in how hard each club’s run-in was before the season was suspended in March. There is considerable opposition to these models, though, with one club dismissing them as “hypothetical and unfair”.
The prospect of declaring the season “null and void” appears to have receded, as most clubs acknowledge this would be very unfair on the teams that have got themselves into the promotion place. It would also come with financial and legal risks.
However, any club faced with relegation is almost certainly going to object to being demoted on the basis of PPG, weighted or otherwise. This has led to some clubs suggesting either two or three clubs are promoted this season, with none relegated. Five teams would then be relegated from the divisions above next season, in order to reset them.
But this idea will face strong opposition from the English game’s bosses as it will lead to fixture congestion next season, complicate the distribution of central income and break the terms of the tripartite agreement the EFL, FA and Premier League signed when the top flight broke away from the EFL in 1992.
As things stand, however, both the Premier League and Championship are determined to finish this season’s fixtures in neutral stadiums behind closed doors, which would mean all these issues would be settled on the pitch in the top two divisions. |  | | |  |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:54 - May 15 with 2167 views | Mass_Debater |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:45 - May 15 by judd |
But that might favour richer clubs or those prepared to break the bank for promotion/survival in the league, which goes against FFP.
The competition started in August, and whereby my preference would be to see it concluded in full irrespective of an end date (within reason, such as calendar year 2020), if PPG is to be applied then it should be from the start of the season. |
This. |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:59 - May 15 with 2056 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:53 - May 15 by Mass_Debater |
Right, so clubs who can afford to strengthen should potentially benefit?
And who decides what "recent form" is?
This is the worst and most stupid idea anyone has come up with yet. |
How would any team know that there was going to by a global pandemic and the season might finish with 25% games to play based on a ppg tally.
Also the system isn't fair that is why the richer clubs can splash the cash to bolster their chances of a higher place finish. That doesn't mean it is right though.
To reiterate ppg from which ever start point for me is wrong, finish the games or void the season. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:25 - May 15 with 2006 views | Mass_Debater |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:59 - May 15 by James1980 |
How would any team know that there was going to by a global pandemic and the season might finish with 25% games to play based on a ppg tally.
Also the system isn't fair that is why the richer clubs can splash the cash to bolster their chances of a higher place finish. That doesn't mean it is right though.
To reiterate ppg from which ever start point for me is wrong, finish the games or void the season. |
But you just suggested your own PPG idea. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:27 - May 15 with 2000 views | judd |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:59 - May 15 by James1980 |
How would any team know that there was going to by a global pandemic and the season might finish with 25% games to play based on a ppg tally.
Also the system isn't fair that is why the richer clubs can splash the cash to bolster their chances of a higher place finish. That doesn't mean it is right though.
To reiterate ppg from which ever start point for me is wrong, finish the games or void the season. |
Balls to voiding it.
Do you want bury back and Bolton not be relegated? |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:33 - May 15 with 1982 views | Nigeriamark |
Lg 1ended up with no decision |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:37 - May 15 with 1971 views | judd |
Chairman? | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:55 - May 15 with 1921 views | DaleiLama |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:37 - May 15 by judd |
Chairman? |
Mao? |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:56 - May 15 with 1915 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:55 - May 15 by DaleiLama |
Mao? |
Meeow? |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:58 - May 15 with 1900 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:56 - May 15 by D_Alien |
Meeow? |
Don’t be a pussy |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:02 - May 15 with 1878 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:58 - May 15 by rochdaleriddler |
Don’t be a pussy |
Wasn't it a lovely pussy that DL posted the vid about, though? | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:23 - May 15 with 1841 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:27 - May 15 by judd |
Balls to voiding it.
Do you want bury back and Bolton not be relegated? |
No they can stay out and Bolton would get points deduction next season otherwise it is no punishment. I feel uncomfortable with points per game because we would have been relegated the past to seasons on that basis. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:32 - May 15 with 1811 views | judd |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:23 - May 15 by James1980 |
No they can stay out and Bolton would get points deduction next season otherwise it is no punishment. I feel uncomfortable with points per game because we would have been relegated the past to seasons on that basis. |
We were not subject to a worldwide highly contagious pandemic the past 2 seasons and so your point is wholly invalid. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:32 - May 15 with 1809 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:23 - May 15 by James1980 |
No they can stay out and Bolton would get points deduction next season otherwise it is no punishment. I feel uncomfortable with points per game because we would have been relegated the past to seasons on that basis. |
We're seeing a minority (six) of clubs holding out against the others, due to reasons of self-interest. That's fair enough, one could say, but if football as a whole is going to get back on track there's going to have to be a significant shift towards greater financial stability
The thing that's causing the financial problems in the first place is unbridled self-interest. If we'd been in a relegation spot this time round, or likely to fall into one with PPG applied, then ain't that just tough? Too many excuses being bandied about (to coin a DB phrase) for not acting with the greater good of the game in mind | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:41 - May 15 with 1773 views | Nigeriamark |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:32 - May 15 by D_Alien |
We're seeing a minority (six) of clubs holding out against the others, due to reasons of self-interest. That's fair enough, one could say, but if football as a whole is going to get back on track there's going to have to be a significant shift towards greater financial stability
The thing that's causing the financial problems in the first place is unbridled self-interest. If we'd been in a relegation spot this time round, or likely to fall into one with PPG applied, then ain't that just tough? Too many excuses being bandied about (to coin a DB phrase) for not acting with the greater good of the game in mind |
Quite an odd result. L2 decide to end the season but L1 don't make a decision. L2 will use a points per game average, but haven't made a decision on promotion or relegation although I assume it would be top 4 and bottom 1?
With several big clubs being part of the 6 holding out it will be an interesting battle. If it wasn't Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich involved who will all consider another year in L1 a disaster, Im sure the season would have gone the same way as league 1. What % of clubs need to agree for it to go through? if 75% just needs 1 of the 6 to give in [Post edited 15 May 2020 14:46]
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:44 - May 15 with 1770 views | judd |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:32 - May 15 by D_Alien |
We're seeing a minority (six) of clubs holding out against the others, due to reasons of self-interest. That's fair enough, one could say, but if football as a whole is going to get back on track there's going to have to be a significant shift towards greater financial stability
The thing that's causing the financial problems in the first place is unbridled self-interest. If we'd been in a relegation spot this time round, or likely to fall into one with PPG applied, then ain't that just tough? Too many excuses being bandied about (to coin a DB phrase) for not acting with the greater good of the game in mind |
Although to be fair to some of the 6, the self-interest involves a degree of risk in the outcome not being promotion after all, so that is a sporting response to how they want the season to proceed. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:51 - May 15 with 1743 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:41 - May 15 by Nigeriamark |
Quite an odd result. L2 decide to end the season but L1 don't make a decision. L2 will use a points per game average, but haven't made a decision on promotion or relegation although I assume it would be top 4 and bottom 1?
With several big clubs being part of the 6 holding out it will be an interesting battle. If it wasn't Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich involved who will all consider another year in L1 a disaster, Im sure the season would have gone the same way as league 1. What % of clubs need to agree for it to go through? if 75% just needs 1 of the 6 to give in [Post edited 15 May 2020 14:46]
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The riches available in the Championship seem to be having something of an influence to those clubs towards the top of League One. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:52 - May 15 with 1735 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:44 - May 15 by judd |
Although to be fair to some of the 6, the self-interest involves a degree of risk in the outcome not being promotion after all, so that is a sporting response to how they want the season to proceed. |
The telling aspect for me was Darren MacAnthony basing his case on having spent a significant sum of money, which is of course his prerogative providing it's within the Fair Play rules but hardly an endorsement for sporting integrity
L2 now decided:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614
Sorry, just seen your post NM
[Post edited 15 May 2020 15:01]
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:05 - May 15 with 1681 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:52 - May 15 by D_Alien |
The telling aspect for me was Darren MacAnthony basing his case on having spent a significant sum of money, which is of course his prerogative providing it's within the Fair Play rules but hardly an endorsement for sporting integrity
L2 now decided:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614
Sorry, just seen your post NM
[Post edited 15 May 2020 15:01]
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Fleetwood's chairman is getting plenty of stick on Twitter for going on about "sporting integrity" and his decision to have as a manager someone who placed bets on his own team! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:07 - May 15 with 1674 views | Nigeriamark |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:52 - May 15 by D_Alien |
The telling aspect for me was Darren MacAnthony basing his case on having spent a significant sum of money, which is of course his prerogative providing it's within the Fair Play rules but hardly an endorsement for sporting integrity
L2 now decided:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614
Sorry, just seen your post NM
[Post edited 15 May 2020 15:01]
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Seems not quite abandoned, they intend to have play offs | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:39 - May 15 with 1630 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:32 - May 15 by D_Alien |
We're seeing a minority (six) of clubs holding out against the others, due to reasons of self-interest. That's fair enough, one could say, but if football as a whole is going to get back on track there's going to have to be a significant shift towards greater financial stability
The thing that's causing the financial problems in the first place is unbridled self-interest. If we'd been in a relegation spot this time round, or likely to fall into one with PPG applied, then ain't that just tough? Too many excuses being bandied about (to coin a DB phrase) for not acting with the greater good of the game in mind |
I saw mcAnthony arguing that the season needs completing for integrity reasons, as if playing a load of games a week behind closed doors was normal | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:50 - May 15 with 1598 views | judd |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:52 - May 15 by D_Alien |
The telling aspect for me was Darren MacAnthony basing his case on having spent a significant sum of money, which is of course his prerogative providing it's within the Fair Play rules but hardly an endorsement for sporting integrity
L2 now decided:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52679614
Sorry, just seen your post NM
[Post edited 15 May 2020 15:01]
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However, he is not saying hand me promotion now, he's wiling to do battle with others over a series of games until the competition ends and the final positions are resolved as intended.
Personally hope that the big boys at the top end have to endure another season in this division. Lots of mug potential. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:08 - May 15 with 1470 views | KenBoon |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:05 - May 15 by TVOS1907 |
Fleetwood's chairman is getting plenty of stick on Twitter for going on about "sporting integrity" and his decision to have as a manager someone who placed bets on his own team! |
Were Fleetwood Town one of the clubs who wanted the requirement for match day programmes to be scrapped? |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:17 - May 15 with 1441 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:08 - May 15 by KenBoon |
Were Fleetwood Town one of the clubs who wanted the requirement for match day programmes to be scrapped? |
Not sure about that, but they were the only club to drop to a 16-page effort for £1 as they wanted their (large) media department to focus on other types of output.
They do charge £22 to stand on that terrace, though. [Post edited 15 May 2020 17:37]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:18 - May 15 with 1442 views | KenBoon |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:39 - May 15 by rochdaleriddler |
I saw mcAnthony arguing that the season needs completing for integrity reasons, as if playing a load of games a week behind closed doors was normal |
Agree. Integrity is impossible. We have six home games and four away but we and other clubs in similar circumstances are expected to lose that on-paper advantage (for some teams home vs away is a huge advantage). I don't like PPG but it's really the only option. Personally i'd scrap the playoffs this season and just deal with the automatics. It makes relegation from League One to League Two a lot more straight forward (Bolton & Southend were never staying up) and being in the playoffs with 10 games left is hardly robbery compared to say relegating Tranmere Rovers who have a very serious chance of staying up. | | | |
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