| UNITED Kingdom 16:18 - Sep 11 with 17947 views | Catullus |
People can talk about Scottish indy but judging by the crowds forming and growing up in Scotland, a lot of people, a great lot of people are grieving the Queen's death and all across the UK we are seeing people united by this.
Happy times don't bring people together but tragedies do and it looks like the majority see her passing as a tragedy, maybe King Charles can take advantage of this and strengthen the unity going forward.
Will the Queen pasing actually make the UK a more unified place? |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 19:31 - Oct 3 with 1365 views | Catullus |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:32 - Oct 3 by johnlangy |
'The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour.'
So why do a majority of the mature people in Wales not vote Tory Cat ?
Also you say the support for Indy fluctuates between 15 and 25%. There have been many polls which produce higher figures than that including a very recent yougov (I believe) poll which came up with 30%.
And another thought while i'm at it  . The vast majority of people, when asked why they would not vote for Indy quote the finance argument. So it's reasonable to assume that if Professor Doyle's report is shown to be accurate a substantial number of those who have said no in the past would change to yes. |
Well most people do move to the right but many will only getto left of centre and not all the way across into the Blue.
More people did vote Tory than for Plaid at he last GE, that actually is a fact.
I sometimes quote polls but I'm not a great believer in any poll besides an actual vote/referenda/plebiscite, whatever you want to call it because we have all seen how very wrong polls have been, Brexit was never going to happen according to polls and wasn't Corbyn going to run Bojo close?
Finance is a large part of it for sure but there have been many arguments and many a reason why not given on here. Maybe we should do a poll and ask how many would change their mind if Doyle is right? then ask everyone who still says no for their reasons why.
I honestly think the only way we will ever know if Doyle is right is to go for it. he could be right, he could be wrong. Do you remember John, I've said it several times, lets have the vote and see.
I can only promise you one thing, I'll vote remain but if going Indy wins I'll accept the result and get on with it. As it stands though, even if there is 30% support for indy, it's still not enough to force that vote. I think you'd need to see 250k marching before we get anywhere near, maybe even more. And remember, Drakeford isn't in favour either, he likes having Westminster to blame! | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 19:57 - Oct 3 with 1350 views | BryanSwan |
| UNITED Kingdom on 18:32 - Oct 3 by johnlangy |
'The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour.'
So why do a majority of the mature people in Wales not vote Tory Cat ?
Also you say the support for Indy fluctuates between 15 and 25%. There have been many polls which produce higher figures than that including a very recent yougov (I believe) poll which came up with 30%.
And another thought while i'm at it . The vast majority of people, when asked why they would not vote for Indy quote the finance argument. So it's reasonable to assume that if Professor Doyle's report is shown to be accurate a substantial number of those who have said no in the past would change to yes. |
He's not wrong on the age demographic and how they vote. Although it would probably show a similar result to wealth and income.
Most by the time they are out of the younger age brackets have built up some wealth, own a car, house, maybe have a family. They no longer seek equitable policy but rather policy that protects them.
They will vote for what they perceive as the status quo.
Thats the real challenge Indy has, it is in convincing those sorts of people to vote for it. Not an easy job at all. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:30 - Oct 3 with 1319 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 19:29 - Oct 3 by pencoedjack |
It’s pretty safe to say that more Welsh people travel to England to work than the English coming the other way.
Taking away the idiot I’m surprised some of the Indy’s can’t see it would damage Wales. |
Lets see some levelling up from your beloved uk government then.
You underline the point that the uk does not work for Cymru. |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:32 - Oct 3 with 1317 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 11:57 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
Yes it's an agreement in certain policy areas, so why did Price not make one of those policy areas about fairer spending across Wales?
I never said it was a coalition by the way, I said Plaid are enabling Labour, which is exactly what they are doing.
How can it be a downpayment on independence? Explain that. There is nothing to guarantee a Plaid run Wales in this agreement, how can there be? Or are you suggesting Labour is making promises it can never keep?
Drakeford has continuously said that while we can have the discussion, he doesn't believe in Indy for Wales. Support for indy fluctuates between 15-25% but has never been anywhere near the magic number needed. The big problem with saying the young are all for indy is, as they grow up and mature, most of them change their minds. Just as many people start off ideologically left wing but most move to the right as they mature which is why we get more tory governments than Labour. |
Drakers has said he supports a reformed union, but if thats not on offer then …. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿â¤ï¸ | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:33 - Oct 3 with 1317 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 12:30 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
Would a prosperous Wales include the likes of Anglesey or Llyn,miles away from the financial hot spot of Cardiff region |
Yes. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:41 - Oct 3 with 1313 views | raynor94 |
I see the good people of Dunfermline showed Jimmy Krankie what they thought of her |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:43 - Oct 3 with 1310 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 19:31 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
Well most people do move to the right but many will only getto left of centre and not all the way across into the Blue.
More people did vote Tory than for Plaid at he last GE, that actually is a fact.
I sometimes quote polls but I'm not a great believer in any poll besides an actual vote/referenda/plebiscite, whatever you want to call it because we have all seen how very wrong polls have been, Brexit was never going to happen according to polls and wasn't Corbyn going to run Bojo close?
Finance is a large part of it for sure but there have been many arguments and many a reason why not given on here. Maybe we should do a poll and ask how many would change their mind if Doyle is right? then ask everyone who still says no for their reasons why.
I honestly think the only way we will ever know if Doyle is right is to go for it. he could be right, he could be wrong. Do you remember John, I've said it several times, lets have the vote and see.
I can only promise you one thing, I'll vote remain but if going Indy wins I'll accept the result and get on with it. As it stands though, even if there is 30% support for indy, it's still not enough to force that vote. I think you'd need to see 250k marching before we get anywhere near, maybe even more. And remember, Drakeford isn't in favour either, he likes having Westminster to blame! |
Lets be clear nobody is asking for a vote tomorrow.
There is work to be done.
You dont make the rules on the size of marches, so sit down.
1 in 3 welsh people already support indy.
If Scotland leaves next year then welsh support will grow.
If Ireland is united in 2024, say, then welsh support will grow.
The union support of the war generation reduces year on year.
Tier all that onto top of 1 in 3, then you can easily make the case that by 2025 or 2026 then Wales could call that vote.
Its odds on to happen as well, the only real threat is a red Starmer uk government that gives wales the socalled indy max devolution.
Another anglo centric right wing Tory government will end this union. Good. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:45 - Oct 3 with 1300 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:41 - Oct 3 by raynor94 |
I see the good people of Dunfermline showed Jimmy Krankie what they thought of her |
Here is Mogg getting the treatment.
Enjoy.
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| UNITED Kingdom on 23:11 - Oct 3 with 1268 views | majorraglan |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:45 - Oct 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Here is Mogg getting the treatment.
Enjoy.
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I don’t like JRM - but I th8nk thecway he’s been treated is bang out of order. | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 20:10 - Oct 4 with 1194 views | Kilkennyjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 23:11 - Oct 3 by majorraglan |
I don’t like JRM - but I th8nk thecway he’s been treated is bang out of order. |
You are too nice.
He has 14 coppers looking after him so he was not in any real physical danger.
All the verbal abuse was richly deserved.
This guy lied to the queen over Brexit and has defended the use of concentration camps by Britain in the Boer war on Question Time. He is a disgrace and undeserving of the normal standards of civilised society.
I hope he gets is every day until he gets is booted out of government. Vile. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 20:40 - Oct 4 with 1184 views | raynor94 |
| UNITED Kingdom on 23:11 - Oct 3 by majorraglan |
I don’t like JRM - but I th8nk thecway he’s been treated is bang out of order. |
Cowardly Corbyn thugs, I liked the way he laughed in their faces.
Not intimidated at all | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 20:47 - Oct 4 with 1177 views | Sirjohnalot |
| UNITED Kingdom on 23:11 - Oct 3 by majorraglan |
I don’t like JRM - but I th8nk thecway he’s been treated is bang out of order. |
Hate the Tory party, but this is disgraceful. We’ve had two MPs murdered recently, this does the Labour Party (unless they’re just anarchists) no good. |  | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:05 - Oct 4 with 1157 views | Flashberryjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 20:47 - Oct 4 by Sirjohnalot |
Hate the Tory party, but this is disgraceful. We’ve had two MPs murdered recently, this does the Labour Party (unless they’re just anarchists) no good. |
Hate is a pretty strong word ? I dislike quite a lot, but I don't hate anyone that disagrees with my politics or opinions, although, it does look like a lot of Labour members are filled with hate.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/04/nurse-says-conservative-voters-dont- |  |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:28 - Oct 4 with 1138 views | Sirjohnalot |
I hate what has happened to the Tory party, the lack of compassion, the dismissal of the poor, the way in which JRM has no compassion or feelings for those less well off that he. The way Braverman and Patel hate those that tread similar paths to their forefathers, the way Johnson lied to the Queen and Parliament.
I hate the way they got rid of decent people like Gauke, Stewart, Hammond. Ken Clarke, Soubrey. How Truss sacked Johnny Mercer, how they’ve lurched to the right and are appealing the UKIP and are alienating colleagues in the centre.
I hate how they’re devastated the police, my profession, the way they dealt with the junior doctors, how the lies the told during the latter stages of Johnson, that Pincher is still there.
They’re repugnant. Yes I hate this government.
They’re not a normal Tory government.
(Oh, and how Braverman is attacking those on benefits today too)
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| UNITED Kingdom on 21:31 - Oct 4 with 1132 views | Dr_Winston |
It does seem like those on the fringes of the left are far more comfortable putting voice to their hatreds these days, possibly believing that they are somehow morally superior and justified.
I've said it before, but people are able to demonstrate in front of images of a hammer and sickle that they would in no way, shape or form be able to do so with a Swastika without immediately being forced to face all sorts of penalties.
A nurse stating that Tories should not be resuscitated should immediately lose her job. No ifs, no buts. I'd be surprised if she's even disciplined. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 22:01 - Oct 4 with 1094 views | Flashberryjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:28 - Oct 4 by Sirjohnalot |
I hate what has happened to the Tory party, the lack of compassion, the dismissal of the poor, the way in which JRM has no compassion or feelings for those less well off that he. The way Braverman and Patel hate those that tread similar paths to their forefathers, the way Johnson lied to the Queen and Parliament.
I hate the way they got rid of decent people like Gauke, Stewart, Hammond. Ken Clarke, Soubrey. How Truss sacked Johnny Mercer, how they’ve lurched to the right and are appealing the UKIP and are alienating colleagues in the centre.
I hate how they’re devastated the police, my profession, the way they dealt with the junior doctors, how the lies the told during the latter stages of Johnson, that Pincher is still there.
They’re repugnant. Yes I hate this government.
They’re not a normal Tory government.
(Oh, and how Braverman is attacking those on benefits today too)
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Hatred will consume you, have you ever considered that your politics may be wrong ? | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 22:16 - Oct 4 with 1079 views | Sirjohnalot |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:01 - Oct 4 by Flashberryjack |
Hatred will consume you, have you ever considered that your politics may be wrong ? |
All I want is to be governed by party that treats all people fairly. I had no particular issue with Cameron, so it’s not the Tories as a Party, it’s what they’ve become.
I want the poor in society to be looked after, for kids to have free school meals and not to be hungry (irrespective of if it their parents fault or not). I want people who weren’t as lucky as me to have loving, wonderful parents, to have the opportunities I did. I don’t want our government to sneer at people on benefits and label them work shy, umming and ah ing about increasing benefits in line with inflation whilst removing limits of bonuses for the very rich, and reducing their tax.
I don’t want the Home Sec to be fantasying about planes to Rwanda (as she said today)
I just want people who can’t afford things to be looked after and people like me and my wife who are doing ok not to be receive tax breaks that can be used for those who need it.
I hope my politics aren’t wrong.
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| UNITED Kingdom on 07:42 - Oct 5 with 1022 views | Dr_Winston |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:16 - Oct 4 by Sirjohnalot |
All I want is to be governed by party that treats all people fairly. I had no particular issue with Cameron, so it’s not the Tories as a Party, it’s what they’ve become.
I want the poor in society to be looked after, for kids to have free school meals and not to be hungry (irrespective of if it their parents fault or not). I want people who weren’t as lucky as me to have loving, wonderful parents, to have the opportunities I did. I don’t want our government to sneer at people on benefits and label them work shy, umming and ah ing about increasing benefits in line with inflation whilst removing limits of bonuses for the very rich, and reducing their tax.
I don’t want the Home Sec to be fantasying about planes to Rwanda (as she said today)
I just want people who can’t afford things to be looked after and people like me and my wife who are doing ok not to be receive tax breaks that can be used for those who need it.
I hope my politics aren’t wrong.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
The problem is "fair" can mean many things to many people.
To me, "Fair" is Government doing its level best to ensure that people who want to get on in life, contribute to society and better themselves are given every opportunity to do so whilst also making sure that those who don't aren't.
For example, I am fully in favour of benefit sanctions. If someone doesn't turn up for an appointment without good reason, or fails to look for work, why should they get money? I don't know anyone who enjoys doing it. It's a lot of hassle and inevitably results in stick from the customer, but it needs to be done from time to time. For others, the very idea of sanctions is horrific and unfair and should never happen. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 09:12 - Oct 5 with 993 views | Sirjohnalot |
| UNITED Kingdom on 07:42 - Oct 5 by Dr_Winston |
The problem is "fair" can mean many things to many people.
To me, "Fair" is Government doing its level best to ensure that people who want to get on in life, contribute to society and better themselves are given every opportunity to do so whilst also making sure that those who don't aren't.
For example, I am fully in favour of benefit sanctions. If someone doesn't turn up for an appointment without good reason, or fails to look for work, why should they get money? I don't know anyone who enjoys doing it. It's a lot of hassle and inevitably results in stick from the customer, but it needs to be done from time to time. For others, the very idea of sanctions is horrific and unfair and should never happen. |
Problem is, I’ve represented people who have been sanctioned whilst being ill, or in hospital or unable to afford to get to appointments and don’t have phones. The mistakes take weeks to correct. The amount spent on these people is tiny compared to missed tax revenue on big companies or ‘mistakes ‘ by some MPs re their claims.
We’re always going to get lazy people milking the system but that may be a price worth paying to protect the truly vulnerable | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 12:42 - Oct 5 with 945 views | pencoedjack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 22:16 - Oct 4 by Sirjohnalot |
All I want is to be governed by party that treats all people fairly. I had no particular issue with Cameron, so it’s not the Tories as a Party, it’s what they’ve become.
I want the poor in society to be looked after, for kids to have free school meals and not to be hungry (irrespective of if it their parents fault or not). I want people who weren’t as lucky as me to have loving, wonderful parents, to have the opportunities I did. I don’t want our government to sneer at people on benefits and label them work shy, umming and ah ing about increasing benefits in line with inflation whilst removing limits of bonuses for the very rich, and reducing their tax.
I don’t want the Home Sec to be fantasying about planes to Rwanda (as she said today)
I just want people who can’t afford things to be looked after and people like me and my wife who are doing ok not to be receive tax breaks that can be used for those who need it.
I hope my politics aren’t wrong.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Personal opinion on your post.
'I want people who weren’t as lucky as me to have loving, wonderful parents, to have the opportunities I did'
Cant say I had wonderful loving parents (at least when it comes to my father) but through sheer hard work I have made a very decent living for myself.
'I don’t want our government to sneer at people on benefits and label them work shy, umming and ah ing about increasing benefits in line with inflation whilst removing limits of bonuses for the very rich, and reducing their tax.'
There 2 different types of people on benefits (& I know both types) those who without any shadow of a doubt are in need of it & I am more than happy for my taxes to benefit them & it to raise with inflation. Then we have the types who have never worked a day in their lives sit in the local club with liked minded people discussing scams on how to beat the system, lazy wasters who deserve nothing & should be made to do charity work to have any benefits. |  | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 13:01 - Oct 5 with 931 views | Sirjohnalot |
| UNITED Kingdom on 12:42 - Oct 5 by pencoedjack |
Personal opinion on your post.
'I want people who weren’t as lucky as me to have loving, wonderful parents, to have the opportunities I did'
Cant say I had wonderful loving parents (at least when it comes to my father) but through sheer hard work I have made a very decent living for myself.
'I don’t want our government to sneer at people on benefits and label them work shy, umming and ah ing about increasing benefits in line with inflation whilst removing limits of bonuses for the very rich, and reducing their tax.'
There 2 different types of people on benefits (& I know both types) those who without any shadow of a doubt are in need of it & I am more than happy for my taxes to benefit them & it to raise with inflation. Then we have the types who have never worked a day in their lives sit in the local club with liked minded people discussing scams on how to beat the system, lazy wasters who deserve nothing & should be made to do charity work to have any benefits. |
Forgive me, this was an error in my typing what I meant to say was 'people who did not have my very very lucky start in life' to have the opportunities I had. Not through money but by complete support'
You are one of the exceptions who made it down to your own hard work. What I meant is that people should be able to access support I had and not have to work harder simply to be on an even standing.
It's like in my job, people who went to posh Universities or private schools have huge advantages as they'll know Judges, or Heads Of Chambers, that shouldn't be the case. I met quite a few of these people in Uni, not talented but relied on daddy to get them where they needed to go.
Can't disagree with your last paragraph, you're right, problem is, is if one person in need gets caught up in that net, it's a problem.
There's always going to be feckless, workshy outside, who can't be bothered, but the money wasted on them if tiny compared with tax loopholes that's out there
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| UNITED Kingdom on 14:31 - Oct 5 with 917 views | BryanSwan |
| UNITED Kingdom on 13:01 - Oct 5 by Sirjohnalot |
Forgive me, this was an error in my typing what I meant to say was 'people who did not have my very very lucky start in life' to have the opportunities I had. Not through money but by complete support'
You are one of the exceptions who made it down to your own hard work. What I meant is that people should be able to access support I had and not have to work harder simply to be on an even standing.
It's like in my job, people who went to posh Universities or private schools have huge advantages as they'll know Judges, or Heads Of Chambers, that shouldn't be the case. I met quite a few of these people in Uni, not talented but relied on daddy to get them where they needed to go.
Can't disagree with your last paragraph, you're right, problem is, is if one person in need gets caught up in that net, it's a problem.
There's always going to be feckless, workshy outside, who can't be bothered, but the money wasted on them if tiny compared with tax loopholes that's out there
This post has been edited by an administrator |
The benefit system is not a luxury, many of those claiming lead a pretty poor standard of life, begrudging anyone fallen on hard times is pretty callous.
If people want to address the issue of a tiny minority of claimants who do indeed work the system, how does anyone propose it is addressed. Without adversely affecting legitimate claimants and without incurring costs greater than the savings. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 14:48 - Oct 5 with 904 views | felixstowe_jack |
| UNITED Kingdom on 21:32 - Oct 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Drakers has said he supports a reformed union, but if thats not on offer then …. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿â¤ï¸ |
Is that the same Drakeford who refuses a Wales only enquiry into his handling of Covoid? He says a UK wide enquiry is good enough. | |
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| UNITED Kingdom on 14:58 - Oct 5 with 901 views | Gwyn737 |
| UNITED Kingdom on 14:31 - Oct 5 by BryanSwan |
The benefit system is not a luxury, many of those claiming lead a pretty poor standard of life, begrudging anyone fallen on hard times is pretty callous.
If people want to address the issue of a tiny minority of claimants who do indeed work the system, how does anyone propose it is addressed. Without adversely affecting legitimate claimants and without incurring costs greater than the savings. |
The majority of people receiving benefits are in work too. | | | |
| UNITED Kingdom on 15:10 - Oct 5 with 894 views | Sirjohnalot |
| UNITED Kingdom on 14:31 - Oct 5 by BryanSwan |
The benefit system is not a luxury, many of those claiming lead a pretty poor standard of life, begrudging anyone fallen on hard times is pretty callous.
If people want to address the issue of a tiny minority of claimants who do indeed work the system, how does anyone propose it is addressed. Without adversely affecting legitimate claimants and without incurring costs greater than the savings. |
That's exactly my point. There will always be a percentage of people taking advantage, but genuine who need it cannot be a victim of removing them | | | |
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