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A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 22:21 - Dec 11 by Lohengrin
Don't you perhaps get the feeling, Nook, that he's alluding to events a little more recent than the Protestant Reformation let alone the Ice Age?
Lohengrin,
The argument seems to be we had this this perfect, pure nation that is now being diluted away with regards to immigration.
But from what date did this nation start? Also is it a British nation or 4 separate nations English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish - who came together? Does the English and or British nation include Ancient Britons, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Normans (originally from Scandanavia).
When exactly did we ever have a perfect society because of perfect race?
Also German unification only occurred in 1871 - so they have only been a 'nation' for circa 150 years.
The Ice Age point is very relevant - as no one lived on our islands 10,000 years ago. Hence everyone living in UK has originally come from an immigrant.
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A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 01:20 - Dec 12 with 1674 views
A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 00:54 - Dec 12 by Nookiejack
Lohengrin,
The argument seems to be we had this this perfect, pure nation that is now being diluted away with regards to immigration.
But from what date did this nation start? Also is it a British nation or 4 separate nations English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish - who came together? Does the English and or British nation include Ancient Britons, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Normans (originally from Scandanavia).
When exactly did we ever have a perfect society because of perfect race?
Also German unification only occurred in 1871 - so they have only been a 'nation' for circa 150 years.
The Ice Age point is very relevant - as no one lived on our islands 10,000 years ago. Hence everyone living in UK has originally come from an immigrant.
PS the attached is a fascinating highlights of British/English migration since last Ice Age.
The lecture is given by Professor Robert Tombs from Cambridge.
A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 00:54 - Dec 12 by Nookiejack
Lohengrin,
The argument seems to be we had this this perfect, pure nation that is now being diluted away with regards to immigration.
But from what date did this nation start? Also is it a British nation or 4 separate nations English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish - who came together? Does the English and or British nation include Ancient Britons, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Normans (originally from Scandanavia).
When exactly did we ever have a perfect society because of perfect race?
Also German unification only occurred in 1871 - so they have only been a 'nation' for circa 150 years.
The Ice Age point is very relevant - as no one lived on our islands 10,000 years ago. Hence everyone living in UK has originally come from an immigrant.
If mankind originated in Africa then the whole World are immigrants, some say being the oldest surviving indigenous people gives clout on claiming a piece of land.
We have structures here in Wales older than the pyramids, we are seen as civilised particularly because of the place that women have held in Welsh, Ancient Briton, Celtic society.
Some eugenicists types put the Welsh in a different category to the English as having different traits, so as regards having a perfect society because of race you might need to look at them separately, you can look at them together but that bloke you mention in your other posts seems to like to look at them separately from the way he writes.
Man has always fought each other, Wales had Hywel Dda when he had his laws that the rest of the World is barely catching up with now.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 10:45 - Dec 12 by trampie
If mankind originated in Africa then the whole World are immigrants, some say being the oldest surviving indigenous people gives clout on claiming a piece of land.
We have structures here in Wales older than the pyramids, we are seen as civilised particularly because of the place that women have held in Welsh, Ancient Briton, Celtic society.
Some eugenicists types put the Welsh in a different category to the English as having different traits, so as regards having a perfect society because of race you might need to look at them separately, you can look at them together but that bloke you mention in your other posts seems to like to look at them separately from the way he writes.
Man has always fought each other, Wales had Hywel Dda when he had his laws that the rest of the World is barely catching up with now.
Others would say because a Group of people were the first immigrants into the UK after last Ice Age (only 10,000 years ago when nobody lived in UK) does not give them a right to the land into perpetuity.
Also the risks are that if you are too insular - become too inward looking end up not liking change - don't take on new technology. Also don't have spread of DNA which might be important in fighting disease.
But it is not all about immigration it is about emigration as well. The Welsh have emigrated to America and Patagonia. Shouldn't they and all their descendants come back home to Wales - if first indigenous people there have claim to the land?
Do we have a more richer life from having say dfferent foods from across the World (Indian, Mexican, Italian, etc) and similarly music and art? Rather than say Eating welsh cakes (which are my favourite cake) and lava bread all the time? Welsh choral anthems are fantastic but not all the time.
A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 11:33 - Dec 12 by Nookiejack
Others would say because a Group of people were the first immigrants into the UK after last Ice Age (only 10,000 years ago when nobody lived in UK) does not give them a right to the land into perpetuity.
Also the risks are that if you are too insular - become too inward looking end up not liking change - don't take on new technology. Also don't have spread of DNA which might be important in fighting disease.
But it is not all about immigration it is about emigration as well. The Welsh have emigrated to America and Patagonia. Shouldn't they and all their descendants come back home to Wales - if first indigenous people there have claim to the land?
Do we have a more richer life from having say dfferent foods from across the World (Indian, Mexican, Italian, etc) and similarly music and art? Rather than say Eating welsh cakes (which are my favourite cake) and lava bread all the time? Welsh choral anthems are fantastic but not all the time.
If you are a civilised people at the top of the tree is watering down a good thing ?
Some would say those Welsh left because of losing their culture and not having self determination, some would say that they occupied land largely not taken, natives having not colonised the land as they were hunters and roaming as opposed to staying put and farming.
The mix you are talking about unfortunately leads to conflict if history is anything to go by. One problem is when locals are overrun by outsiders and have to live according to outsiders laws and customs, would you be happy with that Nookiejack ?
[Post edited 12 Dec 2015 11:56]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Others would say they took with them smallpox and flu and wiped out the indigenous people.
Others would also say that because were oppressed and subjugated in Wales - didn't justify them oppressing and subjugating indigenous people in America and Patagonia.
Also isn't the land the same piece of land - whether hunter gatherer or farmer use it? So Welsh emigrants took the land off hunter gatherers and/or farmers.
However we are where we are in respect of human history and my own view is I like mix and support immigration. An Indian family has just moved in next door to me and they are much nicer people than the white family that just left - who weren't nice people at all. I don't want though say a million people immigrating into the country all at once especially from one particular country.
Londonlisa provided above statistics that immigrants into the UK have been widely spread from across a wide range of countries - so that makes me more comfortable.
I would like Govt to commission a study of what we think is a sustainable population in the UK though - taking into flood plains etc - population density in South East (where most immigrants seem to want to live)and infrastructure (Hospitals, Schools and transport etc). If we could determine this then happy for a flow of immigrants matched by emigrants equating to sustainable populations.
The religious aspect of immigration does sometimes concern me as an Atheist - this might be 1m conservative Christians all at once and/or Muslims all at once. No difference to me. Hence less concerned if Londonlisa's data is true where immigrants into UK appear to be widely spread.
Welsh culture has positive as well as negative things. Let's take best things of all cultures to make a better society.
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A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 14:02 - Dec 12 with 1549 views
A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 13:16 - Dec 12 by Nookiejack
Others would say they took with them smallpox and flu and wiped out the indigenous people.
Others would also say that because were oppressed and subjugated in Wales - didn't justify them oppressing and subjugating indigenous people in America and Patagonia.
Also isn't the land the same piece of land - whether hunter gatherer or farmer use it? So Welsh emigrants took the land off hunter gatherers and/or farmers.
However we are where we are in respect of human history and my own view is I like mix and support immigration. An Indian family has just moved in next door to me and they are much nicer people than the white family that just left - who weren't nice people at all. I don't want though say a million people immigrating into the country all at once especially from one particular country.
Londonlisa provided above statistics that immigrants into the UK have been widely spread from across a wide range of countries - so that makes me more comfortable.
I would like Govt to commission a study of what we think is a sustainable population in the UK though - taking into flood plains etc - population density in South East (where most immigrants seem to want to live)and infrastructure (Hospitals, Schools and transport etc). If we could determine this then happy for a flow of immigrants matched by emigrants equating to sustainable populations.
The religious aspect of immigration does sometimes concern me as an Atheist - this might be 1m conservative Christians all at once and/or Muslims all at once. No difference to me. Hence less concerned if Londonlisa's data is true where immigrants into UK appear to be widely spread.
Welsh culture has positive as well as negative things. Let's take best things of all cultures to make a better society.
The list that I gave of where immigrants come from is the official government report on it for 2013, the most recent year for which they have published the data, so should be true.
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A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:28 - Dec 12 with 1510 views
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