| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? 10:19 - Jan 25 with 6039 views | Loyal |
It was in hindsight a pretty inspiring performance. I have always had my doubts on tactics, managers and coaches believing that players etc haven't the ability to understand even basic instruction. However, did Clelement really mastermind that win and turn this team round that quickly ? |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 14:56 - Jan 25 with 2435 views | monmouth |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 10:35 - Jan 25 by Pegojack |
Yes, we were a lot more organized and motivated, credit where it's due.
But these games all operate on fine margins. Liverpool missed some very good chances in the first half and could have been out of sight by half time. |
To be fair HJ I never felt they were causing us many real problems. From what I saw, admittedly just a haze now, I thought we deliberately gave them the flanks just like Leicester used to do, and they never really looked like hurting us other than with half chances. They really flattered to deceive. Certainly if they'd been out of sight that would have been outrageously lucky in my view. Then, just like Leicester used to do, we took all our chances.
As Warwick said, that fluid and organised defence and the lack of any space between the lines was a thing of beauty and, for me, the reason that Scouse floundered, not that they had a 'bad day'. They genuinely had no ideas of how to combat it when space for Can, Countinio and Lallana was shut down. |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 15:04 - Jan 25 with 2411 views | TheResurrection |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 14:42 - Jan 25 by Kerouac |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38620045
Also not wishing to be pedantic, (just trying to back my view of the game up!) have a look at the average player positions on there.
My interpretation (...and what I believe I saw in practice);
- 2 centre-backs deeper
- Full-backs 5-10 yards further forward
- 2 centre mids sitting (although Cork only does defensive work, whilst Carroll has a licence to go forward...the same role Allen used to play)
- Routledge is tucking into midfield and helping Naughton out
- Siggy is tucking into midfield too.
- Most of our attacks seem to be have been down the right-hand side when going through Fer and Llorente...possibly Siggy was going forward less a in order to cover for Olssen's runs forward who was providing the width on the left |
All those average positions will tell you in earnest is whether we were narrow or long.
Full backs will get to the bye line quite a bit or at least close to it. That will affect their average position quite a lot compared to a centre half - plus, we were definitely nice and flat in both defensive lines. |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:07 - Jan 25 with 2296 views | Davillin |
Allow me to answer the o.p. question with a question. Please accept the terms of my hypothetical.
If we could have used a time machine to go back to the moment of the final whistle of Bob Bradley's last game, and brought directly to the moment of the kickoff of the Liverpool game all of the Swansea players who played there [including Olssen and Carroll], and with no manager or coach on the touchline, do you actually think they'd have played the same in any way as they did in real time? |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:26 - Jan 25 with 2263 views | bluenile |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 12:28 - Jan 25 by swancity |
Don't get too carried away chaps. We scored three times but only had 3 attempts on goal i believe in the entire game. Certainly, we looked well organised and up for it and no doubting that Tom Carroll made a difference but we set up pretty much in our favoured formation. It wasn't anything new was it but all that counts is the 3-2 score lne which I reckon, given everything, is our best league win for many seasons.
Sure Clement must take some credit and praise but it was a great team effort, some poor defensive work from Liverpool and some poor finishing which all contributed to our win.
Llorente and Siggurdson look key to our survival hopes don't they but the return to form of Fernandez is also important given his undoubted quality. |
You obvously didn't see Carroll hit the post then?? There were couple of others too. |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:32 - Jan 25 with 2235 views | swancity |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:26 - Jan 25 by bluenile |
You obvously didn't see Carroll hit the post then?? There were couple of others too. |
Sorry what I meant by 3 attempts on goal was three attempts that were on target. Hitting the post being off target imo |  |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:37 - Jan 25 with 2216 views | jack247 |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:07 - Jan 25 by Davillin |
Allow me to answer the o.p. question with a question. Please accept the terms of my hypothetical.
If we could have used a time machine to go back to the moment of the final whistle of Bob Bradley's last game, and brought directly to the moment of the kickoff of the Liverpool game all of the Swansea players who played there [including Olssen and Carroll], and with no manager or coach on the touchline, do you actually think they'd have played the same in any way as they did in real time? |
No they wouldn't. Tom Carroll wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if we weren't set up correctly. Nor would Llorente. It would probably have been another Tottenham. | | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:38 - Jan 25 with 2210 views | TheResurrection |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:07 - Jan 25 by Davillin |
Allow me to answer the o.p. question with a question. Please accept the terms of my hypothetical.
If we could have used a time machine to go back to the moment of the final whistle of Bob Bradley's last game, and brought directly to the moment of the kickoff of the Liverpool game all of the Swansea players who played there [including Olssen and Carroll], and with no manager or coach on the touchline, do you actually think they'd have played the same in any way as they did in real time? |
Oh FFS your sycophantic bashing of a fellow Yank is cringeworthy - what is it? Just to fit in around here??
And you don't need to go back that far - have a look at the Arsenal game.
ps 6 goals from 2 games conceded for Clement. | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:59 - Jan 25 with 2146 views | jack247 |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:38 - Jan 25 by TheResurrection |
Oh FFS your sycophantic bashing of a fellow Yank is cringeworthy - what is it? Just to fit in around here??
And you don't need to go back that far - have a look at the Arsenal game.
ps 6 goals from 2 games conceded for Clement. |
6 goals conceded and 3 points gained against Liverpool and Arsenal. It's not like shipping 6 goals at Middlesbrough and West Brom in a week. | | | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:08 - Jan 25 with 2006 views | TheResurrection |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:59 - Jan 25 by jack247 |
6 goals conceded and 3 points gained against Liverpool and Arsenal. It's not like shipping 6 goals at Middlesbrough and West Brom in a week. |
The West Brom first half was very similar to Liverpool. We were tight and well organised. The whole place has had a lift, I'm not underestimating that but the constant swipes are just childish. | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:14 - Jan 25 with 1984 views | Darran |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:08 - Jan 25 by TheResurrection |
The West Brom first half was very similar to Liverpool. We were tight and well organised. The whole place has had a lift, I'm not underestimating that but the constant swipes are just childish. |
"constant swipes are just childish"
Fuçk my eyes.  |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:46 - Jan 25 with 1901 views | Glyn1 |
This is an extract from the article that Tummer from Texas recently posted. All of it is well worth reading. It sounds like Clement and Makalele (hey Makalele!) actually know what they're doing.
It was a huge clash of systems. Liverpool played on the front foot, with 74 per cent possession, and they spent the vast majority of the game in the opposition half. Swansea concentrated on playing in a deep, narrow block, denying Liverpool space between the lines, funnelling their attacks wide and playing primarily on the break.
…
Watch the highlights of the game, and you'll see Llorente doing his basic job: He toe-pokes the first goal home from close range in the aftermath of a set piece, then storms into the box to provide a classic bullet header following a brilliantly well-worked move and pinpoint cross from Tom Carroll.
Watch the whole game, however, and you'll find that Llorente was doing something else entirely. With Swansea sitting extremely deep on the edge of their own box, the Spaniard had responsibility for dropping back to shadow Jordan Henderson, Liverpool's deepest midfielder. Henderson has been hugely impressive with his ability to control matches and spray passes out wide this season, and he has often been afforded far too much space by opponents. Not Swansea.
When Liverpool's centre-backs had possession, Llorente positioned himself intelligently, cutting off the passing route into Liverpool's skipper. When they worked the ball forward, he dropped back and marked Henderson. It caused serious problems for Liverpool's build-up play, and Llorente ended up being Swansea's key player both with and without possession. |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:48 - Jan 25 with 1894 views | TheResurrection |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:14 - Jan 25 by Darran |
"constant swipes are just childish"
Fuçk my eyes. |
Smack you in the eyes more like! | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:51 - Jan 25 with 1882 views | TheResurrection |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:46 - Jan 25 by Glyn1 |
This is an extract from the article that Tummer from Texas recently posted. All of it is well worth reading. It sounds like Clement and Makalele (hey Makalele!) actually know what they're doing.
It was a huge clash of systems. Liverpool played on the front foot, with 74 per cent possession, and they spent the vast majority of the game in the opposition half. Swansea concentrated on playing in a deep, narrow block, denying Liverpool space between the lines, funnelling their attacks wide and playing primarily on the break.
…
Watch the highlights of the game, and you'll see Llorente doing his basic job: He toe-pokes the first goal home from close range in the aftermath of a set piece, then storms into the box to provide a classic bullet header following a brilliantly well-worked move and pinpoint cross from Tom Carroll.
Watch the whole game, however, and you'll find that Llorente was doing something else entirely. With Swansea sitting extremely deep on the edge of their own box, the Spaniard had responsibility for dropping back to shadow Jordan Henderson, Liverpool's deepest midfielder. Henderson has been hugely impressive with his ability to control matches and spray passes out wide this season, and he has often been afforded far too much space by opponents. Not Swansea.
When Liverpool's centre-backs had possession, Llorente positioned himself intelligently, cutting off the passing route into Liverpool's skipper. When they worked the ball forward, he dropped back and marked Henderson. It caused serious problems for Liverpool's build-up play, and Llorente ended up being Swansea's key player both with and without possession. |
So Llorente helping the team more and not just expecting things to happen for him.
Who'd have thought we'd be a better team with 11 out there... | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:54 - Jan 25 with 1866 views | Morganator100 |
I'd like to think that Clement did but saying that all we did in the 1st half was mirror the way Plymouth set themselves up against Liverpool in the FA Cup.
Maybe he picked up that Liverpool like to score by playing down the middle so kept it tighter. |  | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 19:31 - Jan 25 with 1759 views | jack247 |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 18:08 - Jan 25 by TheResurrection |
The West Brom first half was very similar to Liverpool. We were tight and well organised. The whole place has had a lift, I'm not underestimating that but the constant swipes are just childish. |
Mate we were getting relegated. Probably in last place. I'm still hacked off with the whole episode to be honest. Not really with Bob, I'd have taken the job too and wouldn't have resigned, but very much with Jenkins, Levein, Kaplan and whoever else sanctioned the whole fcking experiment.
You obviously know your football better than most, but kept defending him after abysmal performances, yet were hugely critical of Clement after the Arsenal game. I don't agree with your views on Siggy, or particularly Llorente, but can see whee you are coming from. You have lost me on this one completely. | | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 19:57 - Jan 25 with 1256 views | jack2jack |
Isn't that what a coach is there for and by the way paid handsomely to do so, or have I missed something.If it wasn't him( and in part his staff),who was it.
Answers on a postcard please |  | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:03 - Jan 25 with 1253 views | icecoldjack |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 10:25 - Jan 25 by WarwickHunt |
The squad is weak but we have enough decent players to make a go of it if coached properly.
The organisation and discipline of the defence and midfield was a thing of beauty on Saturday.
Only one game but we're playing as a team again with players sticking to their roles. |
Wathched the game again the other day, for sure clement had a huge influence on that result, the midfield and defence were really well drilled, every player knew his job and it pushed Liverpool out wide rather than play through the middle .
He got it right tactically IMO . We saw it for 40 mins against Arsenal, we saw it longer against Liverpool. |  | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:18 - Jan 25 with 1249 views | Davillin |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 16:38 - Jan 25 by TheResurrection |
Oh FFS your sycophantic bashing of a fellow Yank is cringeworthy - what is it? Just to fit in around here??
And you don't need to go back that far - have a look at the Arsenal game.
ps 6 goals from 2 games conceded for Clement. |
Shut the feck up, and mind your own business if you can't post something constructive, you
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:18 - Jan 25 with 1242 views | Darran |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:18 - Jan 25 by Davillin |
Shut the feck up, and mind your own business if you can't post something constructive, you
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Brilliant. | |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:42 - Jan 25 with 1207 views | Thornburyswan |
No in the true 'mastermind' sense but he has improve our organisational set-up both with & without the ball and Lady Luck was on our side with the first goal & a few of their late chances - that said for me too much is spouted in the media with 24/7 channels to fill so can see why this might get spoken about.
If we back it up over the next 2/3 games happy to revise my thoughts. | | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:42 - Jan 25 with 1207 views | morningstar |
On another note, has anyone noticed that Southampton appear to be set up in a very similar way tonight with so far very similar results. |  |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 21:31 - Jan 25 with 1146 views | Loyal |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 12:28 - Jan 25 by swancity |
Don't get too carried away chaps. We scored three times but only had 3 attempts on goal i believe in the entire game. Certainly, we looked well organised and up for it and no doubting that Tom Carroll made a difference but we set up pretty much in our favoured formation. It wasn't anything new was it but all that counts is the 3-2 score lne which I reckon, given everything, is our best league win for many seasons.
Sure Clement must take some credit and praise but it was a great team effort, some poor defensive work from Liverpool and some poor finishing which all contributed to our win.
Llorente and Siggurdson look key to our survival hopes don't they but the return to form of Fernandez is also important given his undoubted quality. |
Don't forget that shots hitting a post are not counted as on target. And Mawsons chance.
We are doing ourselves down again here. As the thread has progressed elements of negativity are creeping in.
Be careful you buggers. | |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 21:33 - Jan 25 with 1141 views | Morganator100 |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 20:42 - Jan 25 by morningstar |
On another note, has anyone noticed that Southampton appear to be set up in a very similar way tonight with so far very similar results. |
They have and so far Liverpool don't like breaking them down. | | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 21:55 - Jan 25 with 1118 views | jackrabbit |
Redmond is a great player - fast and direct with quick feet and excellent dribbling skills. Oh to have a midfield presence like him. |  | | |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 14:37 - Jan 26 with 1026 views | LeonWasGod |
| Do you really believe Clement masterminded Liverpool win ? on 14:42 - Jan 25 by Kerouac |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38620045
Also not wishing to be pedantic, (just trying to back my view of the game up!) have a look at the average player positions on there.
My interpretation (...and what I believe I saw in practice);
- 2 centre-backs deeper
- Full-backs 5-10 yards further forward
- 2 centre mids sitting (although Cork only does defensive work, whilst Carroll has a licence to go forward...the same role Allen used to play)
- Routledge is tucking into midfield and helping Naughton out
- Siggy is tucking into midfield too.
- Most of our attacks seem to be have been down the right-hand side when going through Fer and Llorente...possibly Siggy was going forward less a in order to cover for Olssen's runs forward who was providing the width on the left |
This is what I was referring to, the position when we sat deeper and we weren't pressing.
It's just one element though, as outlined in ComeonyouSwans excellent thread here - http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/188456/tactical-match-an
We're just describing slightly different situations I think. |  | | |
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