| Swans chose King over Markovic 17:07 - Jan 31 with 19801 views | magicdaps10 |
Telegraph are reporting that we have decided to loan King over Markovic.
Mmmmmm! |  |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:03 - Mar 4 with 2236 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 19:32 - Mar 4 by jack247 |
Mesa is gone, as far as I can tell, because Carlos wants us to play with 3 box to box type central midfielders. I’m not sure how he would have fitted into Clements best eleven either. In a Rodgers or Laudrup style team, I’m sure he’d still be here.
Baston, presumably just wasn’t scouted properly. A great season for Eibar with some quality finishes. When he got here, he was clearly out of his depth. We tried to play him as a lone front man and he was one of the weakest strikers I’ve ever seen.
You’re quite right in that we do have players like Jordan and Mawson who are worth far more than we paid for them, both financially and on the pitch.
I hope when we get to the summer, we evaluate the season as a whole, or the time the Americans have been here as a whole, rather than just the previous couple of months when deciding if he’s the right man for the job. |
It's not just that with Carlos and Mesa, he's played Carroll and whilst he's got a bigger engine, you could argue, he's not exactly what I'd call box to box - he's a tempo setter and sits in, not far off Mesa's game.
There's more to it all I'm sure but he's probably gone because Carlos didn't rate him enough. If King turns in performances like that for the rest of the season, he's made the right choice.
I would doubt you'd find anyone wanting a different manager than Carlos right now. Let's be honest about that. |  |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:11 - Mar 4 with 2207 views | jack247 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:03 - Mar 4 by TheResurrection |
It's not just that with Carlos and Mesa, he's played Carroll and whilst he's got a bigger engine, you could argue, he's not exactly what I'd call box to box - he's a tempo setter and sits in, not far off Mesa's game.
There's more to it all I'm sure but he's probably gone because Carlos didn't rate him enough. If King turns in performances like that for the rest of the season, he's made the right choice.
I would doubt you'd find anyone wanting a different manager than Carlos right now. Let's be honest about that. |
No chance at all. But let’s be honest, at the start of the season, you wouldn’t have found many, including me, who didn’t want Clement.
Guidolin allegedly approached us while we had Curt in charge and were apparently chasing Bielsa and Emery. Carlos was sacked (ok we may have had some inside knowledge) while we were completely rudderless. Appreciate he had been on Jenkims’ radar for a long time, but both were very lucky appointments.
I’m amazed he’s pulled us out of the fire so many times already. I’d rather we appoint someone who doesn’t put us there in the first place. |  | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:28 - Mar 4 with 2179 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:11 - Mar 4 by jack247 |
No chance at all. But let’s be honest, at the start of the season, you wouldn’t have found many, including me, who didn’t want Clement.
Guidolin allegedly approached us while we had Curt in charge and were apparently chasing Bielsa and Emery. Carlos was sacked (ok we may have had some inside knowledge) while we were completely rudderless. Appreciate he had been on Jenkims’ radar for a long time, but both were very lucky appointments.
I’m amazed he’s pulled us out of the fire so many times already. I’d rather we appoint someone who doesn’t put us there in the first place. |
And that's why Clement was the right manager for the beginning of this season and why you cannot lay any blame at Jenkins' door for him being in charge.
As it turned out we saw how limited he was but we'd have never really known that from Jan to May 2017.
Carlos and Guidloin were not lucky appointments. Yeah, if you wanted to be completely dismissive, frivolous and petty you could argue that, but at the end of the day those managers were ACTUALLY appointed, and we could have appointed any number of managers, but those 2 were ultimately given the responsibility.
And your last sentence is just Fantasy Island. If we stay up this season and become, what is it, the 7th or 8th longest serving EPL club?!! Then if you can't thank or appreciate the hard work and nous that's kept us there you shouldn't be deceiving of even an opinion. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:29 - Mar 4 with 2171 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:01 - Mar 4 by swancity |
Disagree on Mesa. And I'll give you the reasons....he was prone to making too many mistakes, errors of judgement, poor decision making and the pace of the game in the Premier League looked too quick for him. He did some good things but in every game he played he also appeared always on the verge of doing something stupid. Not good enough in a nutshell. |
Well that's what I'm pretty much saying. A few called this one at the time.
Personally, I can see a player in there and I think Clement didn't do him any favours, but I understand the critique. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:39 - Mar 4 with 2145 views | MoscowJack |
I had a look at Mesa's appearances for Sevilla recently and it went something like....
He came off the bench late in a couple of wins, started in a 5-1 humiliation and was subbed after 65 mins ( when already 3-1 down). He was benched for a game or two (without coming on), came on at about the 75th min against his old team Las Palmas when they were coasting 2-0 up but Las Palmas scored within 5 minutes and Sevilla were lucky to win eventually.
He hasn't been on the pitch since and has two players (Pizarro and Banega) now ahead of him challenging to play next to the almost ever-present Nzonzi in front of the back four.
It's a pity as we needed Mesa to impress if we were hoping to get our money back on him. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:46 - Mar 4 with 2127 views | jack247 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:28 - Mar 4 by TheResurrection |
And that's why Clement was the right manager for the beginning of this season and why you cannot lay any blame at Jenkins' door for him being in charge.
As it turned out we saw how limited he was but we'd have never really known that from Jan to May 2017.
Carlos and Guidloin were not lucky appointments. Yeah, if you wanted to be completely dismissive, frivolous and petty you could argue that, but at the end of the day those managers were ACTUALLY appointed, and we could have appointed any number of managers, but those 2 were ultimately given the responsibility.
And your last sentence is just Fantasy Island. If we stay up this season and become, what is it, the 7th or 8th longest serving EPL club?!! Then if you can't thank or appreciate the hard work and nous that's kept us there you shouldn't be deceiving of even an opinion. |
Let’s not argue against things I haven’t said. I’ve never tried to discredit the job Jenkins did in getting us here, or up until the Monk/Guidolin season. It was phenomenal. He’s gone sharply downhill since then and even his fiercest acolytes must admit that.
What was the game plan if they weren’t lucky appointments then? Leave Curt in charge until an out of work top level boss offers himself up (I think they did actually announce Curt until the end of the season), leave Leon in charge until Wednesday sack Carlos? Hope they don’t get a couple of lucky wins? That may sound dismissive, but was there an actual plan to get either of them? What’s he going to do if Carlos collapses the way our last two managers have early next season (not that I think he will, but I didn’t think Clement would either).
I’ve often maintained my position on this is that as much as I dislike what he did with his shares, it’s in the past and there’s no point cutting off our nose to spite our face. Similarly, getting us to the PL and having 4 halcyon years is in the past too. He is only as good as what he currently offers. | | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:50 - Mar 4 with 2113 views | ZZoric |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:39 - Mar 4 by MoscowJack |
I had a look at Mesa's appearances for Sevilla recently and it went something like....
He came off the bench late in a couple of wins, started in a 5-1 humiliation and was subbed after 65 mins ( when already 3-1 down). He was benched for a game or two (without coming on), came on at about the 75th min against his old team Las Palmas when they were coasting 2-0 up but Las Palmas scored within 5 minutes and Sevilla were lucky to win eventually.
He hasn't been on the pitch since and has two players (Pizarro and Banega) now ahead of him challenging to play next to the almost ever-present Nzonzi in front of the back four.
It's a pity as we needed Mesa to impress if we were hoping to get our money back on him. |
It so very obvious that Mesa lacks the intelligence.
He was totally all over the shop - frantically scurrying around, always reacting / never thinking ahead. Positionally inept. Beasted by Leon in the open training sesh at the Lib.
A Footballing-Intelligence test is a must pre-signing. All of the incumbent wld pass with flying colours, King included and most esp the Ayews [Post edited 4 Mar 2018 20:55]
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:54 - Mar 4 with 2095 views | MoscowJack |
As someone once said, the reason Mesa was given the shirt number 51 was to indicate how many times Jenkins has tried to replaced Leon  | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:08 - Mar 4 with 2058 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:29 - Mar 4 by TheResurrection |
Well that's what I'm pretty much saying. A few called this one at the time.
Personally, I can see a player in there and I think Clement didn't do him any favours, but I understand the critique. |
On the subject of Mesa, have we recalled him?
Tweeted a picture of him on Swansea Bay Friday. |  | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:15 - Mar 4 with 2041 views | MoscowJack |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:08 - Mar 4 by 34dfgdf54 |
On the subject of Mesa, have we recalled him?
Tweeted a picture of him on Swansea Bay Friday. |
We can't recall him, but he wasn't in Sevilla's squad in yesterday's 2-0 win over Athletic Bilbao.
Not sure if he is injured or just "rested". | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:33 - Mar 4 with 1999 views | swanforthemoney |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 19:32 - Mar 4 by jack247 |
Mesa is gone, as far as I can tell, because Carlos wants us to play with 3 box to box type central midfielders. I’m not sure how he would have fitted into Clements best eleven either. In a Rodgers or Laudrup style team, I’m sure he’d still be here.
Baston, presumably just wasn’t scouted properly. A great season for Eibar with some quality finishes. When he got here, he was clearly out of his depth. We tried to play him as a lone front man and he was one of the weakest strikers I’ve ever seen.
You’re quite right in that we do have players like Jordan and Mawson who are worth far more than we paid for them, both financially and on the pitch.
I hope when we get to the summer, we evaluate the season as a whole, or the time the Americans have been here as a whole, rather than just the previous couple of months when deciding if he’s the right man for the job. |
Could Borja thrive in a Carlos team? Maybe he would actually get some support and quality crosses. |  |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:42 - Mar 4 with 1968 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 21:33 - Mar 4 by swanforthemoney |
Could Borja thrive in a Carlos team? Maybe he would actually get some support and quality crosses. |
That's a very interesting question. We obviously can't get him back until the end of the season but hopefully Carlos can get a tune out of him too. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 07:52 - Mar 5 with 1838 views | swanforthemoney |
How’s this Markovic geezer been doing since Jenkins committed crime of the century an signed Andy King ahead of him? | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 07:58 - Mar 5 with 1832 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 07:52 - Mar 5 by swanforthemoney |
How’s this Markovic geezer been doing since Jenkins committed crime of the century an signed Andy King ahead of him? |
Can't get in the Liverpool side, which is no shame seeing as they probably have the best attacking unit in the Premier League other than Man City. | | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:05 - Mar 5 with 1817 views | swanforthemoney |
So he’s warming the bench is he ? | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:07 - Mar 5 with 1814 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:05 - Mar 5 by swanforthemoney |
So he’s warming the bench is he ? |
Doing exactly the same as what King would have been doing at Leicester. What's your point? | | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:17 - Mar 5 with 1797 views | swanforthemoney |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:07 - Mar 5 by 34dfgdf54 |
Doing exactly the same as what King would have been doing at Leicester. What's your point? |
I’ve done my own legwork. He’s on a special fitness plan at Anderlecht cant even play at the moment he’s too knackered. On the back of my latest research my point is that it would have been ridiculous to have signed him and anyone who called for it looks a fool
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/lazar-mark | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:19 - Mar 5 with 1792 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 07:52 - Mar 5 by swanforthemoney |
How’s this Markovic geezer been doing since Jenkins committed crime of the century an signed Andy King ahead of him? |
20 mins for Anderlecht. 0 goals. 0 assists.
Bullet dodged, although have to wonder how serious the interest was. |  |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:57 - Mar 5 with 1730 views | STID2017 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 20:28 - Mar 4 by TheResurrection |
And that's why Clement was the right manager for the beginning of this season and why you cannot lay any blame at Jenkins' door for him being in charge.
As it turned out we saw how limited he was but we'd have never really known that from Jan to May 2017.
Carlos and Guidloin were not lucky appointments. Yeah, if you wanted to be completely dismissive, frivolous and petty you could argue that, but at the end of the day those managers were ACTUALLY appointed, and we could have appointed any number of managers, but those 2 were ultimately given the responsibility.
And your last sentence is just Fantasy Island. If we stay up this season and become, what is it, the 7th or 8th longest serving EPL club?!! Then if you can't thank or appreciate the hard work and nous that's kept us there you shouldn't be deceiving of even an opinion. |
I agree that in August, Clement was the right choice.
However Jenkins (and the board)are to blame for knowing that Llorente and Gylfi were going, yet failing to get the deals across the line early, so that Clement could use that money to rebuild, as well as of course leaving Clement in charge for two months too long.
The signing of King was a great choice and I hope he signs permanently in the summer |  |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 10:04 - Mar 5 with 1660 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 08:57 - Mar 5 by STID2017 |
I agree that in August, Clement was the right choice.
However Jenkins (and the board)are to blame for knowing that Llorente and Gylfi were going, yet failing to get the deals across the line early, so that Clement could use that money to rebuild, as well as of course leaving Clement in charge for two months too long.
The signing of King was a great choice and I hope he signs permanently in the summer |
I think this is where things get complicated when we start looking more long term, which is what we need to do.
Clement did an excellent job keeping us up last year. It may have simply come down to shoring up the defence and letting Siggy/Llorente come up with a goal between them, often from a set piece, but it worked. However he showed himself incapable of a Plan B when one of those was taken away from him and was mercifully put out of his misery this season. Step back 4 months and he was the man that most were looking at to build the club around. Things can change quickly.
Carvalhal has done, arguably, an even better job so far .. although I think some forget how much of a lost cause we looked last year too. Whatever happens this season, and we're far from safe yet, he's done a remarkable job.
However there's a world of difference between being the right man now and the right man for the next few years. The experiences of Guidolin and Clement teach us that the easy option of continuing with the man who keeps us up may not be the best course of action. Saying that, if Carvalhal achieves what looked utterly impossible a couple of months back, it'd be hard to argue against him. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 10:45 - Mar 5 with 1610 views | Fireboy2 |
If CC keeps us up it will be by playing half decent football whereas PC only really had 2 players to go to at the end of last season,he showed his management inexperience in what he got out of the players at the first half of this season
Imo the owners were never going to spend the siggy and llorente money so PC was up against it from the start but CC has shown that he is far better manager than PC in what hes got out of practically the same players that PC had to work with |  | | |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 10:45 - Mar 5 with 1610 views | magicdaps10 |
Well my worry is, fingers crossed that we stay up IS....
that the board will not learn from their previous 2 seasons mistakes. We sell our two best players to recycle the playing squad instead of adding to it and strengthening areas that need strengthening.
First season we sell Ash and Andre and second season we sell Llorente and Gylfi. If we manage to stay up then we dont sell Alfie or Jordan and see the board spend money to bring in the required players to strengthen and not lose any players who are important to us.
If we are to look to bring funds in......Amat, Montero, Baston,Routledge,Mesa are ones we should look to ship out. Some i feel still have potential to offer us something but for what ever reason it has not worked out. I know it wont bring in 30/40M but if the scouts and board do their homework, we dont need to spend this type of amount come the summer.
Fingers crossed we stay up first. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 11:02 - Mar 5 with 1589 views | TheResurrection |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 10:45 - Mar 5 by magicdaps10 |
Well my worry is, fingers crossed that we stay up IS....
that the board will not learn from their previous 2 seasons mistakes. We sell our two best players to recycle the playing squad instead of adding to it and strengthening areas that need strengthening.
First season we sell Ash and Andre and second season we sell Llorente and Gylfi. If we manage to stay up then we dont sell Alfie or Jordan and see the board spend money to bring in the required players to strengthen and not lose any players who are important to us.
If we are to look to bring funds in......Amat, Montero, Baston,Routledge,Mesa are ones we should look to ship out. Some i feel still have potential to offer us something but for what ever reason it has not worked out. I know it wont bring in 30/40M but if the scouts and board do their homework, we dont need to spend this type of amount come the summer.
Fingers crossed we stay up first. |
King Clown,
And what if those players WANT to go?
You know, to the point where they feign injuries and refuse to go on pre season tour?
Take your time Einstein. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 11:28 - Mar 5 with 1542 views | magicdaps10 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 11:02 - Mar 5 by TheResurrection |
King Clown,
And what if those players WANT to go?
You know, to the point where they feign injuries and refuse to go on pre season tour?
Take your time Einstein. |
If they are under contract then they need to show some balls dont they.
Rather than dither than a bunch of kids in a sweet shop, they could have got the dealings done quicker or maybe just used their own money to get the replacements in early.
Lets not elude from the fact that the club was sold to improve us financially, put us on a stronger footing......i have not seen any suggestions that has happened.
Now, i know your background and i just hope that you are one narrow minded fooker rather than being someone who is involved with Jenkins and Dineen....albeit through your work or privately, either way i just hope its the former. | |
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| Swans chose King over Markovic on 11:29 - Mar 5 with 1537 views | magicdaps10 |
| Swans chose King over Markovic on 10:04 - Mar 5 by Uxbridge |
I think this is where things get complicated when we start looking more long term, which is what we need to do.
Clement did an excellent job keeping us up last year. It may have simply come down to shoring up the defence and letting Siggy/Llorente come up with a goal between them, often from a set piece, but it worked. However he showed himself incapable of a Plan B when one of those was taken away from him and was mercifully put out of his misery this season. Step back 4 months and he was the man that most were looking at to build the club around. Things can change quickly.
Carvalhal has done, arguably, an even better job so far .. although I think some forget how much of a lost cause we looked last year too. Whatever happens this season, and we're far from safe yet, he's done a remarkable job.
However there's a world of difference between being the right man now and the right man for the next few years. The experiences of Guidolin and Clement teach us that the easy option of continuing with the man who keeps us up may not be the best course of action. Saying that, if Carvalhal achieves what looked utterly impossible a couple of months back, it'd be hard to argue against him. |
Excellent post. | |
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