| Message from the Chairman on 09:16 - Aug 5 with 2419 views | tony_roch975 |
| Message from the Chairman on 23:44 - Aug 4 by Chockers1 |
I appreciate the honesty from the Chairman, we appear to be one of the straightest chairman to supporter connections around
Few points from me
1 - They laid 2 pitches in the last few years without guarantee and wasted somewhere around $600k - this pitch comes with a guarantee - still a huge waste of money and annoys me!
2 - The club made a loss of £1.2m last year and football clubs work in an unsustainable model that when sh*t hits the fan, they will struggle and some clubs will go bust. We can't be the only one in this situation
3 - Lower league clubs work on the basis a high proportion of income comes through match day revenue. The chairman makes a valid point and this could struggle for however long restrictions stay in place
4 - Do the board provide quarterly financial and performance updates to stakeholders? That should now show cup money and some year on year improvements
5 - I thought the Matheson deal was rumored to be installments depending on appearances etc..we might have got X amount which had already been earmarked for something but the future fees could take years to kick in, It wouldn't surprise me if the Adshead deal was similar
I for one am feeling pretty nervous about the future of many clubs at the moment especially those under the championship without decent TC revenue. I do however have decent faith in the board who over the years have always put the longevity of the club first and i have no reason to think that would change.
I hate to look at the negativity but this will be a really difficult season. The club will have allocated less wage budget than before hence not resigning our quality players and if the market as a whole doesn't make an amendment shortly, the rich will get richer and the poor get poorer. It wouldn't surprise me to see the dale bring in a few more L2 / National league level player who may be ready for the next level with substantially less pay on the contract.
I really hope we make it through the next year as club
UP THE DALE |
good objective analysis - agree about value of interim financial forecasts & medium/long-term projections - I asked for that at last AGM. Apparently Tony Pockney has been producing medium term cash-flow forecasts since he joined but they haven't been published |  |
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| Message from the Chairman on 09:16 - Aug 5 with 2418 views | DaleiLama |
| Message from the Chairman on 09:08 - Aug 5 by AtThePeake |
Does anyone know how many season tickets we ended up selling last year? |
It was about 2.5k +/- |  |
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| Message from the Chairman on 09:20 - Aug 5 with 2392 views | AtThePeake |
| Message from the Chairman on 09:16 - Aug 5 by DaleiLama |
It was about 2.5k +/- |
Cheers DL.
Suspect with a pretty large price increase expected and with many fans uncertain as to how the season will pan out (plus those that don't feel comfortable attending as yet) we'll be able to fit all season ticket holders within that 2170 cut-off. |  |
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| Message from the Chairman on 09:52 - Aug 5 with 2300 views | James1980 |
Because I can't always make it to games it wouldn't be fair to purchase a season ticket and potentially deprive someone who can attend every match. I would be happy to watch on Ifollow Would be better if it could be cast to a TV.
One thing that concerns me about the statement is that too much detail about the finances has been exposed. Could this lead to another takeover bid. Will offers come in for our best players with a note attached saying, this will help balance the books. | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 11:24 - Aug 5 with 2167 views | Brierls |
| Message from the Chairman on 20:22 - Aug 4 by NDGN82 |
Please correct me if i'm wrong but the Dawson monies this September will be less that £400k net of the sell on fee to Ratcliffe Borough, then same again next September?
The £2.5m donation from the premier league would potentially be £2.5m per premier league club, i.e. £50m divided by 46 EFL 1 & 2 clubs. Realistically if it does happen, it will be a long term loan, Premier League clubs are unlikely to 'donate' anything to us, why would they?
The 2018/19 accounts showed a loss of £1.3m after player sales/addons of £1m. Effectively a £2.3m loss without this income. In 2019/20, I expect a decent profit after £2m of player sales/add on income (including the full Dawson monies not yet physically received) and around £1m in extra gate receipts and prize money from the United and Newcastle cup runs. Effectively that's £3m in extra income last year that we're almost certain not to receive this season, therefore huge losses expected! Brutally honest - there does appear to be a massive whole that needs to be filled!
Given that at the fans forum it was suggested that it costs £500k per month to run the club, Houston we have a problem!
I find it difficult to understand on here that each time an open and frank statement from the board is made it gets pulled to shreds. Would we all prefer nothing was said of the genuine situation we are faced with and everyone be kept in the dark? I for one like being kept informed of what's going on |
"I find it difficult to understand on here that each time an open and frank statement from the board is made it gets pulled to shreds. Would we all prefer nothing was said of the genuine situation we are faced with and everyone be kept in the dark? I for one like being kept informed of what's going on"
Nail. Hit. Head. The. On.
Some have become so obsessed by the 'big bad board' mindset that it's become their basis for almost every post.
This statement at least gives us an insight into the current, and ongoing, financial challenges the club are facing. If you can't handle harsh reality, stop fcuking asking for it!
Judd makes a statement on us reaping the (non) rewards from ousting Chris Dunphy. I truly believe Chris Dunphy is a legend at this club, he is a legend, but did the accounts not show an ever increasing wage outgoing that did not appear sustainable? Financially, the figures could challenge that we're reaping what we sewed from the final few seasons under Mr Dunphy. Now exaggerated by the effects of the pandemic. It shouldn't overshadow the years upon years of prudent financial management and success, but its food for thought when levelling criticism at the current board. |  | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 11:53 - Aug 5 with 2108 views | AtThePeake |
| Message from the Chairman on 11:24 - Aug 5 by Brierls |
"I find it difficult to understand on here that each time an open and frank statement from the board is made it gets pulled to shreds. Would we all prefer nothing was said of the genuine situation we are faced with and everyone be kept in the dark? I for one like being kept informed of what's going on"
Nail. Hit. Head. The. On.
Some have become so obsessed by the 'big bad board' mindset that it's become their basis for almost every post.
This statement at least gives us an insight into the current, and ongoing, financial challenges the club are facing. If you can't handle harsh reality, stop fcuking asking for it!
Judd makes a statement on us reaping the (non) rewards from ousting Chris Dunphy. I truly believe Chris Dunphy is a legend at this club, he is a legend, but did the accounts not show an ever increasing wage outgoing that did not appear sustainable? Financially, the figures could challenge that we're reaping what we sewed from the final few seasons under Mr Dunphy. Now exaggerated by the effects of the pandemic. It shouldn't overshadow the years upon years of prudent financial management and success, but its food for thought when levelling criticism at the current board. |
I think the points raised about the increased expenditure under Dunphy are very valid. However, I would also argue that people have every right to question what they read in statements from the board.
Not for one second am I suggesting we're in a similar situation, but a handful of our friends over at Gigg Lane believed everything they read in statements from the board with disastrous consequences. People are allowed to question and be suspicious. | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 12:00 - Aug 5 with 2079 views | Brierls |
| Message from the Chairman on 11:53 - Aug 5 by AtThePeake |
I think the points raised about the increased expenditure under Dunphy are very valid. However, I would also argue that people have every right to question what they read in statements from the board.
Not for one second am I suggesting we're in a similar situation, but a handful of our friends over at Gigg Lane believed everything they read in statements from the board with disastrous consequences. People are allowed to question and be suspicious. |
The stark difference is our board are suggesting times are very hard, much in keeping with the population and economy as a whole, not promising Championship football and making stellar signings!
I can't remember if it was said on here or talking amongst others, but somebody said that the club is currently run by accountants and adopting an accountants mindset. Hence the mistakes made with some decisions that had more of a 'personal' impact e.g. Goldbond doorstep collections. I'd agree with that. I'd also suggest that in the current climate, I'd want the club to be in a position to operate as an ongoing concern this time next year. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 12:11]
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| Message from the Chairman on 12:02 - Aug 5 with 2068 views | DaleiLama |
| Message from the Chairman on 11:53 - Aug 5 by AtThePeake |
I think the points raised about the increased expenditure under Dunphy are very valid. However, I would also argue that people have every right to question what they read in statements from the board.
Not for one second am I suggesting we're in a similar situation, but a handful of our friends over at Gigg Lane believed everything they read in statements from the board with disastrous consequences. People are allowed to question and be suspicious. |
I would say not just allowed, but positively encouraged.
If the scrutinised have nothing to hide, they should also have nothing to fear.
If Fitz hadn't dug and subsequently questioned, the recent share acquisition would have gone unnoticed for some time and who's to say what that could have led to under different circumstances.
As paying fans any one of us has every right to question decisions and make suggestions for the good of the club. It's more unhealthy not to do so I would suggest? | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 12:04 - Aug 5 with 2058 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
Looks to me like the chairman’s figures relating to next season are a case of the old “outline the worst case scenario & anything less catastrophic is a bonus“ ploy. There’s a lot of that going around at the moment.
72 FL clubs will be in our position if not considerably worse. I’m not panicking (yet)... |  | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:08 - Aug 5 with 2037 views | AtThePeake |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:00 - Aug 5 by Brierls |
The stark difference is our board are suggesting times are very hard, much in keeping with the population and economy as a whole, not promising Championship football and making stellar signings!
I can't remember if it was said on here or talking amongst others, but somebody said that the club is currently run by accountants and adopting an accountants mindset. Hence the mistakes made with some decisions that had more of a 'personal' impact e.g. Goldbond doorstep collections. I'd agree with that. I'd also suggest that in the current climate, I'd want the club to be in a position to operate as an ongoing concern this time next year. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 12:11]
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And the criticisms that people are levelling at our board aren't that they are going to run us into the ground by overspending. | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 12:38 - Aug 5 with 1943 views | judd |
| Message from the Chairman on 11:24 - Aug 5 by Brierls |
"I find it difficult to understand on here that each time an open and frank statement from the board is made it gets pulled to shreds. Would we all prefer nothing was said of the genuine situation we are faced with and everyone be kept in the dark? I for one like being kept informed of what's going on"
Nail. Hit. Head. The. On.
Some have become so obsessed by the 'big bad board' mindset that it's become their basis for almost every post.
This statement at least gives us an insight into the current, and ongoing, financial challenges the club are facing. If you can't handle harsh reality, stop fcuking asking for it!
Judd makes a statement on us reaping the (non) rewards from ousting Chris Dunphy. I truly believe Chris Dunphy is a legend at this club, he is a legend, but did the accounts not show an ever increasing wage outgoing that did not appear sustainable? Financially, the figures could challenge that we're reaping what we sewed from the final few seasons under Mr Dunphy. Now exaggerated by the effects of the pandemic. It shouldn't overshadow the years upon years of prudent financial management and success, but its food for thought when levelling criticism at the current board. |
What is being questioned on this statement is the accuracy of the content.
Based on scrutiny of it and previous pronouncements and documents available in the public domain, I do not think it is wholly correct.
With regards Chris Dunphy, it has been posted on here previously that the club operated a cyclical model that relied on the development and subsequent sale of academy and bought-in players, and that some seasons were fallow in this respect.
The funding of the losses made in the final 1.5 years of Dunphy's tenure came from cash reserves built up from the success of this model in previous years.
In the last 18 months or so we saw transfer fees received for a number of players bought in or through the club on the above basis which benefitted the club in the last season, which has to be credited to Dunphy, even though he did not do the final deals.
We are about to receive a further windfall from the Dawson transfer.
Dunphy was responsible for generating millions of on and off field assets and we still see income generated from his prudence now. |  |
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| Message from the Chairman on 12:38 - Aug 5 with 1941 views | Brierls |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:02 - Aug 5 by DaleiLama |
I would say not just allowed, but positively encouraged.
If the scrutinised have nothing to hide, they should also have nothing to fear.
If Fitz hadn't dug and subsequently questioned, the recent share acquisition would have gone unnoticed for some time and who's to say what that could have led to under different circumstances.
As paying fans any one of us has every right to question decisions and make suggestions for the good of the club. It's more unhealthy not to do so I would suggest? |
I completely agree with everybody having the right to question decisions and make suggestions for the good of the club.
There's a difference between questioning decisions and being on a crusade to disagree with any statement that is released. Which is clearly the case with some posters. | | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:51 - Aug 5 with 1896 views | D_Alien |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:38 - Aug 5 by Brierls |
I completely agree with everybody having the right to question decisions and make suggestions for the good of the club.
There's a difference between questioning decisions and being on a crusade to disagree with any statement that is released. Which is clearly the case with some posters. |
It would be easy for people to assume there's a crusade, but in many instances, it's more about seeking clarification
Take the ST comms from today
For me, it raised quite a few questions. Some are relevant to me, others were just queries which (for instance) those looking to purchase a Family (2+2) ticket might require an answer to
Now, that's just me, but since i'm a scrutiniser (it's incurable, i'm afraid) that might come across to some people as being "picky" or even, wtf's he asking all these questions for? Again? |  |
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| Message from the Chairman on 13:05 - Aug 5 with 1859 views | Ancoats_Blue |
I don’t think we’re nailed on for relegation. It’s a negative but realistic update. No income for months and any business will suffer. Especially lower league clubs like Dale were crowd income is so important. I’d imagine some bigger spenders, with usually bigger crowds than Dale, will also suffer due to the initial (or maybe full season) restrictions.
I’m assuming the restrictions are the same % for every ground? In that case similar sized fan bases in Fleetwood, Burton and Accy will be limited to something like 1200 fans. Wimbledon before their new ground opens about 1000. At the other end of the scale Sunderland’s gates will drop from their steady 25-30k to a limit of 9k. They’ll have lost out a lot more than us on this.
So yeah. I think we’ll be plodding along near the bottom 4 as we’d probably expect anyway. But loads of us will be in a crap state this season. I wouldnt be surprised to see some of the bigger clubs end up in admin (or any club incl Dale) Relegation will be wide open. |  | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 13:32 - Aug 5 with 1802 views | tony_roch975 |
| Message from the Chairman on 12:51 - Aug 5 by D_Alien |
It would be easy for people to assume there's a crusade, but in many instances, it's more about seeking clarification
Take the ST comms from today
For me, it raised quite a few questions. Some are relevant to me, others were just queries which (for instance) those looking to purchase a Family (2+2) ticket might require an answer to
Now, that's just me, but since i'm a scrutiniser (it's incurable, i'm afraid) that might come across to some people as being "picky" or even, wtf's he asking all these questions for? Again? |
yet when we ask questions of the current govt you are the first to complain about bias - information-seeking questions are one thing; it's the Board so they must be lying is quite another. | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 13:41 - Aug 5 with 1774 views | AtThePeake |
| Message from the Chairman on 13:05 - Aug 5 by Ancoats_Blue |
I don’t think we’re nailed on for relegation. It’s a negative but realistic update. No income for months and any business will suffer. Especially lower league clubs like Dale were crowd income is so important. I’d imagine some bigger spenders, with usually bigger crowds than Dale, will also suffer due to the initial (or maybe full season) restrictions.
I’m assuming the restrictions are the same % for every ground? In that case similar sized fan bases in Fleetwood, Burton and Accy will be limited to something like 1200 fans. Wimbledon before their new ground opens about 1000. At the other end of the scale Sunderland’s gates will drop from their steady 25-30k to a limit of 9k. They’ll have lost out a lot more than us on this.
So yeah. I think we’ll be plodding along near the bottom 4 as we’d probably expect anyway. But loads of us will be in a crap state this season. I wouldnt be surprised to see some of the bigger clubs end up in admin (or any club incl Dale) Relegation will be wide open. |
I admire your optimism Ancoats, and I can't pretend to know exactly what's going on at all the other clubs across the league, but I've got to say I don't share it.
I was determined not to be too negative ahead of this season as I think I was overly-pessimistic last year, but we only finished above one of the teams that will still be in our division next season and I can't imagine that any other team have lost two players as important to them as Henderson and Camps were to us. Added to that a statement from the board that basically says we've got next to no money to spend and it's really hard to see anything other than a bottom four finish for us this season as things stand. If I was a bookmaker, I'd make us odds-on to go down at this stage.
Other teams will struggle, but the statement suggests to me we're struggling more than most and what's more, we're starting from a weaker position than everyone else too (even more so without Henderson and Camps). | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 13:46 - Aug 5 with 1754 views | Stourdale |
Regarding ST money incoming to the club. Could they realistically spend any of that?
If there is a further uptick in virus cases as expected, the first thing to go will be people attending sporting events.
This would likely lead to the club having to partially/fully refund ST's and leave a further black hole in the finances.
It's a big risk and I wonder if this has played a part with the season budget. | | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 14:28 - Aug 5 with 1662 views | nordenblue |
| Message from the Chairman on 13:41 - Aug 5 by AtThePeake |
I admire your optimism Ancoats, and I can't pretend to know exactly what's going on at all the other clubs across the league, but I've got to say I don't share it.
I was determined not to be too negative ahead of this season as I think I was overly-pessimistic last year, but we only finished above one of the teams that will still be in our division next season and I can't imagine that any other team have lost two players as important to them as Henderson and Camps were to us. Added to that a statement from the board that basically says we've got next to no money to spend and it's really hard to see anything other than a bottom four finish for us this season as things stand. If I was a bookmaker, I'd make us odds-on to go down at this stage.
Other teams will struggle, but the statement suggests to me we're struggling more than most and what's more, we're starting from a weaker position than everyone else too (even more so without Henderson and Camps). |
Not sure how we're struggling more than most when most clubs in league 1 have a miles bigger wage bill to begin with,and they'll also be much more hindered by a reduced gate than we will,this following one of if not THE most lucrative 18 months of incoming funds that certainly could not have been budgeted for in advance.
It will be a year like none on record regarding squads,player numbers etc but you could certainly see a decent finishing position for any club with a strong team spirit behind them this year more than any I believe.
Judging my our elusive chairman's recent broadcast not renewing(withdrawing)Hendos contract offer could be one of the biggest bullets we could have possibly swerved during these uncertain times mind..... | | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 14:36 - Aug 5 with 1635 views | D_Alien |
| Message from the Chairman on 13:32 - Aug 5 by tony_roch975 |
yet when we ask questions of the current govt you are the first to complain about bias - information-seeking questions are one thing; it's the Board so they must be lying is quite another. |
You really can't help yourself, can you?
First of all, "it's the Board so they must be lying" is a construct of your own fetid imagination
But most importantly, i don't recall the Board putting forward a manifesto for how they intend to run the club and offering themselves up to the fanbase for election
Those who have, and then go about carrying their manifesto forward, deserve a fair wind and a degree of basic understanding if they get buffeted by unprecedented events, the solutions for which not even the so-called experts can agree on
But leave it there, eh? | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 15:07 - Aug 5 with 1559 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Message from the Chairman on 13:41 - Aug 5 by AtThePeake |
I admire your optimism Ancoats, and I can't pretend to know exactly what's going on at all the other clubs across the league, but I've got to say I don't share it.
I was determined not to be too negative ahead of this season as I think I was overly-pessimistic last year, but we only finished above one of the teams that will still be in our division next season and I can't imagine that any other team have lost two players as important to them as Henderson and Camps were to us. Added to that a statement from the board that basically says we've got next to no money to spend and it's really hard to see anything other than a bottom four finish for us this season as things stand. If I was a bookmaker, I'd make us odds-on to go down at this stage.
Other teams will struggle, but the statement suggests to me we're struggling more than most and what's more, we're starting from a weaker position than everyone else too (even more so without Henderson and Camps). |
The way I see it. Best case, we stay up.
Worst case, we win league 2 in May 2022 away at Harrogate after a session on the afternoon tea at Betty’s.
Or something like that. | | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 15:10 - Aug 5 with 1553 views | James1980 |
| Message from the Chairman on 15:07 - Aug 5 by Ancoats_Blue |
The way I see it. Best case, we stay up.
Worst case, we win league 2 in May 2022 away at Harrogate after a session on the afternoon tea at Betty’s.
Or something like that. |
Jam or cream first | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 15:21 - Aug 5 with 1517 views | DaleiLama |
| Message from the Chairman on 15:10 - Aug 5 by James1980 |
Jam or cream first |
Butter then jam then clotted cream.
No sugar in my tea.
Thanks James. | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 16:04 - Aug 5 with 1456 views | 49thseason |
Surely the best case is that the other 23 clubs incur 12 point deductions for going into admin and we go up as L1 Champions! |  | | |
| Message from the Chairman on 16:13 - Aug 5 with 1430 views | tony_roch975 |
| Message from the Chairman on 16:04 - Aug 5 by 49thseason |
Surely the best case is that the other 23 clubs incur 12 point deductions for going into admin and we go up as L1 Champions! |
lacking ambition as always with this Board-.....and are automatically promoted into the Premiership over the 24 Championship clubs with 12 points deductions | |
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| Message from the Chairman on 16:16 - Aug 5 with 1423 views | tony_roch975 |
| Message from the Chairman on 14:36 - Aug 5 by D_Alien |
You really can't help yourself, can you?
First of all, "it's the Board so they must be lying" is a construct of your own fetid imagination
But most importantly, i don't recall the Board putting forward a manifesto for how they intend to run the club and offering themselves up to the fanbase for election
Those who have, and then go about carrying their manifesto forward, deserve a fair wind and a degree of basic understanding if they get buffeted by unprecedented events, the solutions for which not even the so-called experts can agree on
But leave it there, eh? |
Hardly a construct — quote…..
“you have to question his motives, as well as the figures” Thacks_Rabbits
“People are allowed to question and be suspicious”. AtThePeake
“What is being questioned on this statement is the accuracy of the content”. judd
As you so rightly say, those who take on leadership positions “deserve a fair wind and a degree of basic understanding if they get buffeted by unprecedented events, the solutions for which not even the so-called experts can agree on”
But leave it there, eh? | |
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