| Just back... 23:03 - Aug 15 with 4082 views | RobotmanR |
Have lurked on this board for some years, but never felt compelled to post until today. Guess there was lots of material for debate from today's game.
I saw some positives-
1. Luongo - thought he put a shift in, popping up everywhere, and looked tidy and composed plus had a bit of bite. (admittedly I've not yet worked out how much blame lies with him for the fact that Cardiff played through the centre and between the lines in the second half).
2. Ned and Hill looked solid enough. Great to see Clint on the score sheet of course.
3. Phillips did the thing he sometime does where as the opposition gets tired, he seems to find second wind and become a super-direct and pacey outlet. Would be nice to see a bit more composure through on goal of course.
However-
4. Gladwin looked miles off the pace and didn't seem to make any impression on the game at all. Reminded me a bit of Mutch's early appearances. Hopefully there is a lot more to come from him. Our left side overall looked pretty unthreatening.
5. Green - for me his distribution and decision making (rushing out etc) was patchy today.
Actually I'll stop there - haven't got all night....
As for the booing, I'm sort of in agreement with the 'it's my right' camp but I don't like it and don't do it. I just don't think it can make a good impression on someone like Luongo who was at his first HQ game and i don't think his effort could be faulted. Not a nice intro to the fans IMO.
PS - a ripe Epoisses or a mature blue Stilton |  | | |  |
| Just back... on 23:17 - Aug 15 with 4001 views | wombat |
Welcome and nice cheese choice |  |
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| Just back... on 09:00 - Aug 16 with 3612 views | Suffolk |
In agreement with your post Robotman. A few pieces of treasure came out of the debris. In addition to those you have already stated-
1. Chery - the guy has a touch of class about him. Great on the ball with a splash of flair. For ten minutes of the first half both Phillips and Chery raised their game a couple of levels and ripped Cardiff apart. We could and maybe should have scored another two/three goals during that period.
2. Polter - This guy is not going to score 20 goals a season but it was evident within 5 minutes of coming on that he has the ability to ruffle a few feathers. He is very strong, aggressive and arrogant in his style of play. His work rate is excellent and his tackling is better than most of our defenders. Once he scores a few goals he is destined to become a fans favourite IMO.
3. Those aforementioned ten minutes - For those ten minutes of the first half a few cogs within the team hit the right timing. Chery and Phillips were outstanding and Charlie started to make the runs into the box that would suggest that his price tag could be justified. For me these ten minutes of the game gave an insight into what could be and what I suspect Ramsey is trying to achieve.
The team performance was poor on the whole but offered enough to have some optimism for the future. The team is work in progress. The biggest disappointment for me is the reaction by a section of our fans. They obviously expect instant success and will provide an obstacle to progress. |  | | |
| Just back... on 09:10 - Aug 16 with 3581 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Chris Ramsey felt QPR’s defensive players deserved credit for their display in the 2-2 draw against Cardiff.
Head coach Ramsey bemoaned his side’s missed chances after Cardiff’s late fightback at Loftus Road.
But he was pleased with the performances of Nedum Onuoha, James Perch, Clint Hill, Paul Konchesky and Karl Henry.
“Nedum, Clint Hill, Perch and Konchesky did very well. Karl Henry as well — I thought he was fantastic,” Ramsey said.
We are so in the shite if that's what he thinks . |  |
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| Just back... on 09:16 - Aug 16 with 3542 views | paulparker |
| Just back... on 09:10 - Aug 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Chris Ramsey felt QPR’s defensive players deserved credit for their display in the 2-2 draw against Cardiff.
Head coach Ramsey bemoaned his side’s missed chances after Cardiff’s late fightback at Loftus Road.
But he was pleased with the performances of Nedum Onuoha, James Perch, Clint Hill, Paul Konchesky and Karl Henry.
“Nedum, Clint Hill, Perch and Konchesky did very well. Karl Henry as well — I thought he was fantastic,” Ramsey said.
We are so in the shite if that's what he thinks . |
Koncheskey & perch are the worst fullbacks I've seen since Bruce & Warren
Did either venture over the halfway line
Defensively we played so deep , it was schoolboy stuff at times
The man hasn't a clue, it was Paul hart esq that sub of chery & as for his Iove for Henry it reminds me of graham Taylor & Carlton Palmer
As I said earlier we got lucky that slade never played Jones & ameobi from the start |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Just back... on 09:18 - Aug 16 with 3533 views | JonDoeman |
I thought Gladwin was OK first half . |  |
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| Just back... on 09:57 - Aug 16 with 3396 views | Neil_SI |
Welcome to the board. :)
Even if we won the game by a couple of goals or more, which we easily could have, I'd have still come away a little disappointed with some aspects of our play — but hopeful about others.
It was very disappointing to throw away a two-goal lead, to say the least, but it happens and we showed many facets of what is still a new team getting to know one another.
We didn't try to build and play out from the back enough and lacked the confidence to do so, which resulted in too many direct balls forward than we needed to play. It was made worse that most of those balls were going to Tjaronn Chery and I wasn't too thrilled by Charlie Austin's lack of movement throughout.
But in the end, we mitigated that by eventually moving Massimo Luongo forward, who did a better job than Chery in the hole and was an inspired change that should have led to us wrapping up the points and sealing the win. Chery did well when we got him the ball to feet, but we just didn't get him the ball to feet enough so he drifted in and out of the game, and he isn't as strong as Luongo in the air.
I've read and heard from a lot of people complaining about the substitutions made, but funnily enough, I thought they were spot on and were pretty much the same ones I would have made too.
But that's football. Everybody is going to have a different view of what should and shouldn't be done and why. We needed a little more pace, energy and movement in the closing stages of the match, and we got it, but we also go naivety and stupidity too.
Luongo grew and grew into the game. We didn't get him on the ball enough in the first-half (same could be said of Chery) but Luongo still won numerous defensive and attacking headers throughout. There were times he was spraying the ball across the pitch with either his left or right foot — no problem.
I thought it was an inspired decision by Ramsey to move him into Chery's position. It was here that Luongo really shined. He was excellent on the ball and played a pivotal role in creating golden opportunities that we should have scored from. He was instrumental in Matt Phillips' one-on-one, which was saved, and which Phillips could have pulled back to Luongo for an easy tap in — but Luongo also kept the play alive and provided a quality ball in for Charlie Austin, of which Austin hit the post from and had a hand in the chance Sebastian Polter laid on for Jay Emmanuel-Thomas. I mean really guys, stick one of them in the net and it's done and dusted.
So there were plenty of opportunity to win the game, not counting all the balls we flashed across the face of the goal in the first-half either. Certainly two points dropped in that sense.
Some of Luongo's passing was really classy. The weight and timing of his deliveries are a real bonus, and if we can get him involved away from home on the counter attack, we can cause home teams all sorts of problems. That's something to think about when we play aggressive teams who will look to attack us, much like we expect against Wolves on Wednesday.
We had defended well up until the goals. The same thing we could have said against Charlton. Sure there will always be one or two hairy moments, but in the main, Nedum Onouha particularly, apart from letting one ball over the top at the end that could have lost the game, had a fine afternoon.
But we do lack speed in the backline again and it's causing problems. James Perch, Clint Hill and Paul Konchesky don't have the pace or legs for the way we actually want to play — so reinforcements or returning players may play a key role here for us going forward. I also felt Kenwyne Jones caused us a lot of problems physically when he came on — so that's something to be mindful about.
Similarly, especially in the first-half, that lack of movement and collective closing down at the top end of the pitch, combined with the lack of speed and legs in the backline, meant that occasionally we were too far apart, and the distance between the defensive and attacking units were too great, leaving the midfield with a lot of ground to cover. That's why in the first-half especially, we seemed to struggle to get to second balls. It's why Cardiff could pop it around at the base of the midfield, because our midfield were correctly reluctant to expose themselves and come out of position. We dealt with this a little better in the second half with the changes we made, as we had more speed to close the opposition down. At the same time though, we didn't quite close those distances, we just had more legs to engage. I'd have liked us to close the distance and engage, as we'd have changed the game in our favour had we done so.
What you see is a team still learning about one another. On one hand near the end, some seven minutes before the end, Emmanuel-Thomas was trying to time-waste, which wasn't sensible and showed a lack of nous that you might expect from a League One player. On the other, you had Polter taking a quick throw trying to find a way to seal the game and almost giving the ball away (not to mention his comical and ridiculous dribbling around his own box, which was typically Rangers madness but he got away with). But this shows the team is still a work in progress and getting to know one another — they need time — time to know when to kill a game off and when to see it out.
There are other small details. I liked Michael Doughty's energy and speed, which was needed to help press play — but he also gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas once or twice that left us wide open on the counter attack. That's simply inexperience, and if you want to know why say a Karl Henry gets the nod over players like this, it's because while he offers little frills, Henry doesn't make those kind of mistakes.
I'm a little annoyed we're not pressing the opposition as much as we have done in pre-season. Whether it's players still finding their sharpness, or getting to know one another, or whatever, they need to find this part of their game quickly. There's enough speed and legs in the top end of the pitch to make it work. We did this more in the second half with the changes we made and won the ball plenty of times, so we know we can do it.
Then we have Robert Green, who had one of those days where he has a bit of a mare, but largely got away with it. His general decision making when to come off his line or stick wasn't good enough (was probably hand ball too?), and the same old problems with his kicking and distribution were apparent here. He threw the ball straight to a Cardiff player at one point and almost cost us the game, then there was one occasion when Polter and Emmanuel-Thomas went to the left side of the pitch and called for the ball, only for Green to randomly wave them to the other side, and when they didn't go (he didn't even give them enough time) he played it there anyway and straight to an unmarked Cardiff player — and complained that the two strikers didn't go over to it. That for me, was pretty unfathomable and even had Chris Ramsey yelling at him in disgust. Bizarre.
We'll come away very disappointed with how we conceded the first, but the second, despite not closing down the shot quickly enough, was a hell of a strike. It happens, if you don't put those chances away that we had you leave yourself vulnerable if you give up opportunity for someone to take a strike. It's possible it was a fair shout for a free-kick to us too, especially given how many the referee gave in their favour as the game went on for seemingly light infringements, but I've not seen a replay.
Anyway — while I wasn't pleased with some aspects, there are plenty of positives. We created lots of chances without really playing the football we wanted and we scored two goals from corners, which is a plus. It's important we score more from set pieces this season as that will help us pick up points.
We've shown again that despite all of the above, we've plenty here to be competitive, and still have players yet to return to first-team action and likely more players to arrive. I think had Jamie Mackie been fit, we'd have won this, as he would have given us that work ethic we needed to close this one out. And we did lack a little bit of leadership and experience at the top end of the pitch once we'd made those changes. He'd have given us that.
They've just got to string this together consistently. Give them time, they can do it. You've got to hold your nerve and be patient.
Wolves is a hard game on Wednesday night, but after seeing Luongo on the break, I'd be looking to find him and his quality to see off counter attacks all night. Not the finished article by any means, but a real classy player with a bright future if he can develop right. [Post edited 16 Aug 2015 10:14]
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| Just back... on 11:16 - Aug 16 with 3148 views | kingo |
| Just back... on 09:57 - Aug 16 by Neil_SI |
Welcome to the board. :)
Even if we won the game by a couple of goals or more, which we easily could have, I'd have still come away a little disappointed with some aspects of our play — but hopeful about others.
It was very disappointing to throw away a two-goal lead, to say the least, but it happens and we showed many facets of what is still a new team getting to know one another.
We didn't try to build and play out from the back enough and lacked the confidence to do so, which resulted in too many direct balls forward than we needed to play. It was made worse that most of those balls were going to Tjaronn Chery and I wasn't too thrilled by Charlie Austin's lack of movement throughout.
But in the end, we mitigated that by eventually moving Massimo Luongo forward, who did a better job than Chery in the hole and was an inspired change that should have led to us wrapping up the points and sealing the win. Chery did well when we got him the ball to feet, but we just didn't get him the ball to feet enough so he drifted in and out of the game, and he isn't as strong as Luongo in the air.
I've read and heard from a lot of people complaining about the substitutions made, but funnily enough, I thought they were spot on and were pretty much the same ones I would have made too.
But that's football. Everybody is going to have a different view of what should and shouldn't be done and why. We needed a little more pace, energy and movement in the closing stages of the match, and we got it, but we also go naivety and stupidity too.
Luongo grew and grew into the game. We didn't get him on the ball enough in the first-half (same could be said of Chery) but Luongo still won numerous defensive and attacking headers throughout. There were times he was spraying the ball across the pitch with either his left or right foot — no problem.
I thought it was an inspired decision by Ramsey to move him into Chery's position. It was here that Luongo really shined. He was excellent on the ball and played a pivotal role in creating golden opportunities that we should have scored from. He was instrumental in Matt Phillips' one-on-one, which was saved, and which Phillips could have pulled back to Luongo for an easy tap in — but Luongo also kept the play alive and provided a quality ball in for Charlie Austin, of which Austin hit the post from and had a hand in the chance Sebastian Polter laid on for Jay Emmanuel-Thomas. I mean really guys, stick one of them in the net and it's done and dusted.
So there were plenty of opportunity to win the game, not counting all the balls we flashed across the face of the goal in the first-half either. Certainly two points dropped in that sense.
Some of Luongo's passing was really classy. The weight and timing of his deliveries are a real bonus, and if we can get him involved away from home on the counter attack, we can cause home teams all sorts of problems. That's something to think about when we play aggressive teams who will look to attack us, much like we expect against Wolves on Wednesday.
We had defended well up until the goals. The same thing we could have said against Charlton. Sure there will always be one or two hairy moments, but in the main, Nedum Onouha particularly, apart from letting one ball over the top at the end that could have lost the game, had a fine afternoon.
But we do lack speed in the backline again and it's causing problems. James Perch, Clint Hill and Paul Konchesky don't have the pace or legs for the way we actually want to play — so reinforcements or returning players may play a key role here for us going forward. I also felt Kenwyne Jones caused us a lot of problems physically when he came on — so that's something to be mindful about.
Similarly, especially in the first-half, that lack of movement and collective closing down at the top end of the pitch, combined with the lack of speed and legs in the backline, meant that occasionally we were too far apart, and the distance between the defensive and attacking units were too great, leaving the midfield with a lot of ground to cover. That's why in the first-half especially, we seemed to struggle to get to second balls. It's why Cardiff could pop it around at the base of the midfield, because our midfield were correctly reluctant to expose themselves and come out of position. We dealt with this a little better in the second half with the changes we made, as we had more speed to close the opposition down. At the same time though, we didn't quite close those distances, we just had more legs to engage. I'd have liked us to close the distance and engage, as we'd have changed the game in our favour had we done so.
What you see is a team still learning about one another. On one hand near the end, some seven minutes before the end, Emmanuel-Thomas was trying to time-waste, which wasn't sensible and showed a lack of nous that you might expect from a League One player. On the other, you had Polter taking a quick throw trying to find a way to seal the game and almost giving the ball away (not to mention his comical and ridiculous dribbling around his own box, which was typically Rangers madness but he got away with). But this shows the team is still a work in progress and getting to know one another — they need time — time to know when to kill a game off and when to see it out.
There are other small details. I liked Michael Doughty's energy and speed, which was needed to help press play — but he also gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas once or twice that left us wide open on the counter attack. That's simply inexperience, and if you want to know why say a Karl Henry gets the nod over players like this, it's because while he offers little frills, Henry doesn't make those kind of mistakes.
I'm a little annoyed we're not pressing the opposition as much as we have done in pre-season. Whether it's players still finding their sharpness, or getting to know one another, or whatever, they need to find this part of their game quickly. There's enough speed and legs in the top end of the pitch to make it work. We did this more in the second half with the changes we made and won the ball plenty of times, so we know we can do it.
Then we have Robert Green, who had one of those days where he has a bit of a mare, but largely got away with it. His general decision making when to come off his line or stick wasn't good enough (was probably hand ball too?), and the same old problems with his kicking and distribution were apparent here. He threw the ball straight to a Cardiff player at one point and almost cost us the game, then there was one occasion when Polter and Emmanuel-Thomas went to the left side of the pitch and called for the ball, only for Green to randomly wave them to the other side, and when they didn't go (he didn't even give them enough time) he played it there anyway and straight to an unmarked Cardiff player — and complained that the two strikers didn't go over to it. That for me, was pretty unfathomable and even had Chris Ramsey yelling at him in disgust. Bizarre.
We'll come away very disappointed with how we conceded the first, but the second, despite not closing down the shot quickly enough, was a hell of a strike. It happens, if you don't put those chances away that we had you leave yourself vulnerable if you give up opportunity for someone to take a strike. It's possible it was a fair shout for a free-kick to us too, especially given how many the referee gave in their favour as the game went on for seemingly light infringements, but I've not seen a replay.
Anyway — while I wasn't pleased with some aspects, there are plenty of positives. We created lots of chances without really playing the football we wanted and we scored two goals from corners, which is a plus. It's important we score more from set pieces this season as that will help us pick up points.
We've shown again that despite all of the above, we've plenty here to be competitive, and still have players yet to return to first-team action and likely more players to arrive. I think had Jamie Mackie been fit, we'd have won this, as he would have given us that work ethic we needed to close this one out. And we did lack a little bit of leadership and experience at the top end of the pitch once we'd made those changes. He'd have given us that.
They've just got to string this together consistently. Give them time, they can do it. You've got to hold your nerve and be patient.
Wolves is a hard game on Wednesday night, but after seeing Luongo on the break, I'd be looking to find him and his quality to see off counter attacks all night. Not the finished article by any means, but a real classy player with a bright future if he can develop right. [Post edited 16 Aug 2015 10:14]
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Pretty much how I saw it Neil. I was impressed with Luongo and Chery, and also Gladwin in the first half and disappointed with both Austin and Phillips, who both appeared reluctant to give 100%. But what disappointed me most was that in the second half we seemed to lose all confidence in what we were doing and played like a nervous bunch of strangers. It is early days but I think we look ineffective up front as two of the starters have their minds elsewhere, and this put more pressure on the players behind them. Plus our three starting forwards didn't look match fit, whereas Luongo and Chery were up to speed. As someone said behind me yesterday, if they don't want to be here then don't play them. People were moaning at JETs miss, but Phillips had two excellent chances that he should have taken. We made chances but there didn't appear to be enough thought put in to turning them into goals. |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| Just back... on 11:49 - Aug 16 with 3055 views | francisbowles |
Thank you Neil, a superb post. | | | |
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| Just back... on 11:59 - Aug 16 with 3004 views | KernowRanger |
| Just back... on 11:16 - Aug 16 by kingo |
Pretty much how I saw it Neil. I was impressed with Luongo and Chery, and also Gladwin in the first half and disappointed with both Austin and Phillips, who both appeared reluctant to give 100%. But what disappointed me most was that in the second half we seemed to lose all confidence in what we were doing and played like a nervous bunch of strangers. It is early days but I think we look ineffective up front as two of the starters have their minds elsewhere, and this put more pressure on the players behind them. Plus our three starting forwards didn't look match fit, whereas Luongo and Chery were up to speed. As someone said behind me yesterday, if they don't want to be here then don't play them. People were moaning at JETs miss, but Phillips had two excellent chances that he should have taken. We made chances but there didn't appear to be enough thought put in to turning them into goals. |
Think I'm right in saying that 3 of the 4 goals we've conceded so far have come from Phillips coming too far inside and leaving space for their left-hand side players to take advantage. Not sure if its a tactical decision or Phillips' lack of concentration or genuine mistakes but its really costing us at the moment. |  | | |
| Just back... on 12:07 - Aug 16 with 2973 views | stevec |
| Just back... on 09:57 - Aug 16 by Neil_SI |
Welcome to the board. :)
Even if we won the game by a couple of goals or more, which we easily could have, I'd have still come away a little disappointed with some aspects of our play — but hopeful about others.
It was very disappointing to throw away a two-goal lead, to say the least, but it happens and we showed many facets of what is still a new team getting to know one another.
We didn't try to build and play out from the back enough and lacked the confidence to do so, which resulted in too many direct balls forward than we needed to play. It was made worse that most of those balls were going to Tjaronn Chery and I wasn't too thrilled by Charlie Austin's lack of movement throughout.
But in the end, we mitigated that by eventually moving Massimo Luongo forward, who did a better job than Chery in the hole and was an inspired change that should have led to us wrapping up the points and sealing the win. Chery did well when we got him the ball to feet, but we just didn't get him the ball to feet enough so he drifted in and out of the game, and he isn't as strong as Luongo in the air.
I've read and heard from a lot of people complaining about the substitutions made, but funnily enough, I thought they were spot on and were pretty much the same ones I would have made too.
But that's football. Everybody is going to have a different view of what should and shouldn't be done and why. We needed a little more pace, energy and movement in the closing stages of the match, and we got it, but we also go naivety and stupidity too.
Luongo grew and grew into the game. We didn't get him on the ball enough in the first-half (same could be said of Chery) but Luongo still won numerous defensive and attacking headers throughout. There were times he was spraying the ball across the pitch with either his left or right foot — no problem.
I thought it was an inspired decision by Ramsey to move him into Chery's position. It was here that Luongo really shined. He was excellent on the ball and played a pivotal role in creating golden opportunities that we should have scored from. He was instrumental in Matt Phillips' one-on-one, which was saved, and which Phillips could have pulled back to Luongo for an easy tap in — but Luongo also kept the play alive and provided a quality ball in for Charlie Austin, of which Austin hit the post from and had a hand in the chance Sebastian Polter laid on for Jay Emmanuel-Thomas. I mean really guys, stick one of them in the net and it's done and dusted.
So there were plenty of opportunity to win the game, not counting all the balls we flashed across the face of the goal in the first-half either. Certainly two points dropped in that sense.
Some of Luongo's passing was really classy. The weight and timing of his deliveries are a real bonus, and if we can get him involved away from home on the counter attack, we can cause home teams all sorts of problems. That's something to think about when we play aggressive teams who will look to attack us, much like we expect against Wolves on Wednesday.
We had defended well up until the goals. The same thing we could have said against Charlton. Sure there will always be one or two hairy moments, but in the main, Nedum Onouha particularly, apart from letting one ball over the top at the end that could have lost the game, had a fine afternoon.
But we do lack speed in the backline again and it's causing problems. James Perch, Clint Hill and Paul Konchesky don't have the pace or legs for the way we actually want to play — so reinforcements or returning players may play a key role here for us going forward. I also felt Kenwyne Jones caused us a lot of problems physically when he came on — so that's something to be mindful about.
Similarly, especially in the first-half, that lack of movement and collective closing down at the top end of the pitch, combined with the lack of speed and legs in the backline, meant that occasionally we were too far apart, and the distance between the defensive and attacking units were too great, leaving the midfield with a lot of ground to cover. That's why in the first-half especially, we seemed to struggle to get to second balls. It's why Cardiff could pop it around at the base of the midfield, because our midfield were correctly reluctant to expose themselves and come out of position. We dealt with this a little better in the second half with the changes we made, as we had more speed to close the opposition down. At the same time though, we didn't quite close those distances, we just had more legs to engage. I'd have liked us to close the distance and engage, as we'd have changed the game in our favour had we done so.
What you see is a team still learning about one another. On one hand near the end, some seven minutes before the end, Emmanuel-Thomas was trying to time-waste, which wasn't sensible and showed a lack of nous that you might expect from a League One player. On the other, you had Polter taking a quick throw trying to find a way to seal the game and almost giving the ball away (not to mention his comical and ridiculous dribbling around his own box, which was typically Rangers madness but he got away with). But this shows the team is still a work in progress and getting to know one another — they need time — time to know when to kill a game off and when to see it out.
There are other small details. I liked Michael Doughty's energy and speed, which was needed to help press play — but he also gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas once or twice that left us wide open on the counter attack. That's simply inexperience, and if you want to know why say a Karl Henry gets the nod over players like this, it's because while he offers little frills, Henry doesn't make those kind of mistakes.
I'm a little annoyed we're not pressing the opposition as much as we have done in pre-season. Whether it's players still finding their sharpness, or getting to know one another, or whatever, they need to find this part of their game quickly. There's enough speed and legs in the top end of the pitch to make it work. We did this more in the second half with the changes we made and won the ball plenty of times, so we know we can do it.
Then we have Robert Green, who had one of those days where he has a bit of a mare, but largely got away with it. His general decision making when to come off his line or stick wasn't good enough (was probably hand ball too?), and the same old problems with his kicking and distribution were apparent here. He threw the ball straight to a Cardiff player at one point and almost cost us the game, then there was one occasion when Polter and Emmanuel-Thomas went to the left side of the pitch and called for the ball, only for Green to randomly wave them to the other side, and when they didn't go (he didn't even give them enough time) he played it there anyway and straight to an unmarked Cardiff player — and complained that the two strikers didn't go over to it. That for me, was pretty unfathomable and even had Chris Ramsey yelling at him in disgust. Bizarre.
We'll come away very disappointed with how we conceded the first, but the second, despite not closing down the shot quickly enough, was a hell of a strike. It happens, if you don't put those chances away that we had you leave yourself vulnerable if you give up opportunity for someone to take a strike. It's possible it was a fair shout for a free-kick to us too, especially given how many the referee gave in their favour as the game went on for seemingly light infringements, but I've not seen a replay.
Anyway — while I wasn't pleased with some aspects, there are plenty of positives. We created lots of chances without really playing the football we wanted and we scored two goals from corners, which is a plus. It's important we score more from set pieces this season as that will help us pick up points.
We've shown again that despite all of the above, we've plenty here to be competitive, and still have players yet to return to first-team action and likely more players to arrive. I think had Jamie Mackie been fit, we'd have won this, as he would have given us that work ethic we needed to close this one out. And we did lack a little bit of leadership and experience at the top end of the pitch once we'd made those changes. He'd have given us that.
They've just got to string this together consistently. Give them time, they can do it. You've got to hold your nerve and be patient.
Wolves is a hard game on Wednesday night, but after seeing Luongo on the break, I'd be looking to find him and his quality to see off counter attacks all night. Not the finished article by any means, but a real classy player with a bright future if he can develop right. [Post edited 16 Aug 2015 10:14]
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Much of what you say is well observed and I appreciate my dissatisfaction with Ramsey will inevitably manifest itself in a glass half empty view on things. But, take away the goods and bads of individual performance, as a team there seems very little advancement from last January.
We've just played 2 very average sides in charlton and Cardiff and in each case, apart from the opening 20 minutes, have looked second best. In fact, since Ramsey took over I can think only of a very poor Newcastle side that we've actually beaten during the second half of a game.
His negative demeanour is not going to go away, this is evident in the team performance. These players as a collective look scared to fail and play accordingly. Cardiff played bold, we didn't. Expect a serious beating at Wolves. |  | | |
| Just back... on 12:12 - Aug 16 with 2944 views | ozexile |
| Just back... on 09:57 - Aug 16 by Neil_SI |
Welcome to the board. :)
Even if we won the game by a couple of goals or more, which we easily could have, I'd have still come away a little disappointed with some aspects of our play — but hopeful about others.
It was very disappointing to throw away a two-goal lead, to say the least, but it happens and we showed many facets of what is still a new team getting to know one another.
We didn't try to build and play out from the back enough and lacked the confidence to do so, which resulted in too many direct balls forward than we needed to play. It was made worse that most of those balls were going to Tjaronn Chery and I wasn't too thrilled by Charlie Austin's lack of movement throughout.
But in the end, we mitigated that by eventually moving Massimo Luongo forward, who did a better job than Chery in the hole and was an inspired change that should have led to us wrapping up the points and sealing the win. Chery did well when we got him the ball to feet, but we just didn't get him the ball to feet enough so he drifted in and out of the game, and he isn't as strong as Luongo in the air.
I've read and heard from a lot of people complaining about the substitutions made, but funnily enough, I thought they were spot on and were pretty much the same ones I would have made too.
But that's football. Everybody is going to have a different view of what should and shouldn't be done and why. We needed a little more pace, energy and movement in the closing stages of the match, and we got it, but we also go naivety and stupidity too.
Luongo grew and grew into the game. We didn't get him on the ball enough in the first-half (same could be said of Chery) but Luongo still won numerous defensive and attacking headers throughout. There were times he was spraying the ball across the pitch with either his left or right foot — no problem.
I thought it was an inspired decision by Ramsey to move him into Chery's position. It was here that Luongo really shined. He was excellent on the ball and played a pivotal role in creating golden opportunities that we should have scored from. He was instrumental in Matt Phillips' one-on-one, which was saved, and which Phillips could have pulled back to Luongo for an easy tap in — but Luongo also kept the play alive and provided a quality ball in for Charlie Austin, of which Austin hit the post from and had a hand in the chance Sebastian Polter laid on for Jay Emmanuel-Thomas. I mean really guys, stick one of them in the net and it's done and dusted.
So there were plenty of opportunity to win the game, not counting all the balls we flashed across the face of the goal in the first-half either. Certainly two points dropped in that sense.
Some of Luongo's passing was really classy. The weight and timing of his deliveries are a real bonus, and if we can get him involved away from home on the counter attack, we can cause home teams all sorts of problems. That's something to think about when we play aggressive teams who will look to attack us, much like we expect against Wolves on Wednesday.
We had defended well up until the goals. The same thing we could have said against Charlton. Sure there will always be one or two hairy moments, but in the main, Nedum Onouha particularly, apart from letting one ball over the top at the end that could have lost the game, had a fine afternoon.
But we do lack speed in the backline again and it's causing problems. James Perch, Clint Hill and Paul Konchesky don't have the pace or legs for the way we actually want to play — so reinforcements or returning players may play a key role here for us going forward. I also felt Kenwyne Jones caused us a lot of problems physically when he came on — so that's something to be mindful about.
Similarly, especially in the first-half, that lack of movement and collective closing down at the top end of the pitch, combined with the lack of speed and legs in the backline, meant that occasionally we were too far apart, and the distance between the defensive and attacking units were too great, leaving the midfield with a lot of ground to cover. That's why in the first-half especially, we seemed to struggle to get to second balls. It's why Cardiff could pop it around at the base of the midfield, because our midfield were correctly reluctant to expose themselves and come out of position. We dealt with this a little better in the second half with the changes we made, as we had more speed to close the opposition down. At the same time though, we didn't quite close those distances, we just had more legs to engage. I'd have liked us to close the distance and engage, as we'd have changed the game in our favour had we done so.
What you see is a team still learning about one another. On one hand near the end, some seven minutes before the end, Emmanuel-Thomas was trying to time-waste, which wasn't sensible and showed a lack of nous that you might expect from a League One player. On the other, you had Polter taking a quick throw trying to find a way to seal the game and almost giving the ball away (not to mention his comical and ridiculous dribbling around his own box, which was typically Rangers madness but he got away with). But this shows the team is still a work in progress and getting to know one another — they need time — time to know when to kill a game off and when to see it out.
There are other small details. I liked Michael Doughty's energy and speed, which was needed to help press play — but he also gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous areas once or twice that left us wide open on the counter attack. That's simply inexperience, and if you want to know why say a Karl Henry gets the nod over players like this, it's because while he offers little frills, Henry doesn't make those kind of mistakes.
I'm a little annoyed we're not pressing the opposition as much as we have done in pre-season. Whether it's players still finding their sharpness, or getting to know one another, or whatever, they need to find this part of their game quickly. There's enough speed and legs in the top end of the pitch to make it work. We did this more in the second half with the changes we made and won the ball plenty of times, so we know we can do it.
Then we have Robert Green, who had one of those days where he has a bit of a mare, but largely got away with it. His general decision making when to come off his line or stick wasn't good enough (was probably hand ball too?), and the same old problems with his kicking and distribution were apparent here. He threw the ball straight to a Cardiff player at one point and almost cost us the game, then there was one occasion when Polter and Emmanuel-Thomas went to the left side of the pitch and called for the ball, only for Green to randomly wave them to the other side, and when they didn't go (he didn't even give them enough time) he played it there anyway and straight to an unmarked Cardiff player — and complained that the two strikers didn't go over to it. That for me, was pretty unfathomable and even had Chris Ramsey yelling at him in disgust. Bizarre.
We'll come away very disappointed with how we conceded the first, but the second, despite not closing down the shot quickly enough, was a hell of a strike. It happens, if you don't put those chances away that we had you leave yourself vulnerable if you give up opportunity for someone to take a strike. It's possible it was a fair shout for a free-kick to us too, especially given how many the referee gave in their favour as the game went on for seemingly light infringements, but I've not seen a replay.
Anyway — while I wasn't pleased with some aspects, there are plenty of positives. We created lots of chances without really playing the football we wanted and we scored two goals from corners, which is a plus. It's important we score more from set pieces this season as that will help us pick up points.
We've shown again that despite all of the above, we've plenty here to be competitive, and still have players yet to return to first-team action and likely more players to arrive. I think had Jamie Mackie been fit, we'd have won this, as he would have given us that work ethic we needed to close this one out. And we did lack a little bit of leadership and experience at the top end of the pitch once we'd made those changes. He'd have given us that.
They've just got to string this together consistently. Give them time, they can do it. You've got to hold your nerve and be patient.
Wolves is a hard game on Wednesday night, but after seeing Luongo on the break, I'd be looking to find him and his quality to see off counter attacks all night. Not the finished article by any means, but a real classy player with a bright future if he can develop right. [Post edited 16 Aug 2015 10:14]
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After watching Luongo in the Asian cup in January posted here that he's no defensive midfielder and that his best position is higher up. Ramsey just listen to me. | | | |
| Just back... on 12:14 - Aug 16 with 2937 views | THEBUSH |
Good to hear from some fans who actually went to the game, I unfortunately was only able to watch game on the internet, which doesn't give a true reading of the game.
I'm glad that this thread finds some positive things to say about yesterdays performance. |  | | |
| Just back... on 12:18 - Aug 16 with 2919 views | Suffolk |
Neil SI "I thought it was an inspired decision by Ramsey to move him into Chery's position. It was here that Luongo really shined. He was excellent on the ball and played a pivotal role in creating golden opportunities that we should have scored from."
I agree that Luongo played better when further forward. I am also of the opinion that Chery was at his best when he drifted out wide.
From little acorns mighty oaks grow. | | | |
| Just back... on 12:41 - Aug 16 with 2836 views | NorthLondonR |
Is it Ferdinand actually making the key decisions rather than Ramsey? Just prior to Emmanuel-Thomas came on, the assistant (?) type chap on the bench (is that Suckling?) came out the dug-out looked up to the directors box, then tapped Ramsey on the shoulder and the next thing, JET is called for...
Not sure what it all means and not too bothered but certainly someone from the SAR stand gave the command. |  | | |
| Just back... on 12:57 - Aug 16 with 2770 views | TheBlob |
Welcome to the board.
I'm too dispirited and disenchanted to ask for the loan of a tenner.
Lend us eight quid. |  |
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| Just back... on 13:03 - Aug 16 with 2733 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Just back... on 12:41 - Aug 16 by NorthLondonR |
Is it Ferdinand actually making the key decisions rather than Ramsey? Just prior to Emmanuel-Thomas came on, the assistant (?) type chap on the bench (is that Suckling?) came out the dug-out looked up to the directors box, then tapped Ramsey on the shoulder and the next thing, JET is called for...
Not sure what it all means and not too bothered but certainly someone from the SAR stand gave the command. |
Wasn't an Italian bloke with flowing grey locks and a fit lass half his age sat beside him was it? [Post edited 16 Aug 2015 13:03]
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| Just back... on 15:15 - Aug 16 with 2540 views | thehat |
Thanks for the report Neil - Pretty much as I saw it very disappointed with some of the abusive comments to TF and CR - People need to be patient it might take two years before we are challenging for promotion again but at least we are doing things the right way no more SWP's and Junior Hoiletts on mega bucks that can't be shifted of the wage bill I want more rough diamonds that we polish up think Darren Peacock, Andy Sinton, Les Ferdinand, David Bardsley etc etc | | | |
| Just back... on 15:51 - Aug 16 with 2496 views | DANRANGER |
Enough promise to build on. I know only 2nd game but Henry is a concern. Perch may actually be a better option as a holding midfielder and bring in an attacking full back (Byrne maybe?). Otherwise plenty to build on and players need time to settle. Austin situation cannot help matters so need to get all sorted and move on. Chery would be decent from wide in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 if luongo better as a 10. |  | | |
| Just back... on 21:46 - Aug 16 with 2286 views | Neil_SI |
| Just back... on 11:16 - Aug 16 by kingo |
Pretty much how I saw it Neil. I was impressed with Luongo and Chery, and also Gladwin in the first half and disappointed with both Austin and Phillips, who both appeared reluctant to give 100%. But what disappointed me most was that in the second half we seemed to lose all confidence in what we were doing and played like a nervous bunch of strangers. It is early days but I think we look ineffective up front as two of the starters have their minds elsewhere, and this put more pressure on the players behind them. Plus our three starting forwards didn't look match fit, whereas Luongo and Chery were up to speed. As someone said behind me yesterday, if they don't want to be here then don't play them. People were moaning at JETs miss, but Phillips had two excellent chances that he should have taken. We made chances but there didn't appear to be enough thought put in to turning them into goals. |
Actually I was really pleased that Austin scored. It's an important goal for lots of reasons and I felt Phillips was much improved in terms of his involvement in comparison to Charlton last week. After all, Phillips provided the two crosses for our goals and probably should have scored or created another himself, so not too shabby really.
The disappointment I had for the pair of them were just some small football details. Austin's movement was a bit too static at times, and I felt he could have made some more intelligent runs down the corridor that would have improved his chances of picking up the ball in dangerous areas. He could have closed down a bit more intelligently at times too, but that's being picky.
For Phillips, we've seen three goals down James Perch's side where he's been a wee bit out of position and not providing enough cover. But that can happen with some wide players, it's not just him who does that, but it's a bit frustrating because he can be helpful in defence. It's not, in my view, out of laziness or lack of commitment. He just got caught out of position and was a fraction too late in closing down Malone for the equaliser here.
These are two players who at some point, are bound to have thoughts about whether they will return to the Premier League or not. That's a normal scenario really but I don't think it means they're not giving 100% for the cause.
They do deserve to play their football in the Premier League. I think they've done their time and helped us when we needed them to and really the club and the players have conducted themselves well about the pair.
We need to make sure, that if the window passes and their opportunity to leave doesn't materialise, that their heads and hearts are screwed on and they're ready for the slog. It's at that point where players can really lose a bit of heart. But I think these guys are not the sort to do that really. They might get down about it for a short period, but they'd find their groove again. Overall though, I expect them to go, and they will only improve their chances of going by playing well, so it's in their own interests to try. | | | |
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