| Lewis Alessandra 13:06 - Mar 8 with 7917 views | hull_dale19 |
Joined York City on a month's loan |  | | |  |
| Lewis Alessandra on 19:31 - Mar 8 with 2596 views | nordenblue |
| Lewis Alessandra on 19:26 - Mar 8 by D_Dale |
I hope you are wrong about York being doomed. It was often a good place to visit when Dale played there.
As for Alessandra, I'm not sure those posters who think some conspiracy or disagreement must exist are right.
Last summer Hill was hoping to find a new Matt Done. Soon after Done went, he was suggesting loanee Fabien Brandy would make a replacement, and when that didn't work Alessandra might have seemed a good option. In the 2014-15 season he'd scored a respectable 11 league goals for Plymouth, as well as wanting to move into the area for family reasons.
But those 11 goals represented a third of the league goals he'd scored in 8 seasons (33 goals in 171 starts and 64 appearances as a sub). Hill probably hoped that Alessandra would maintain, and perhaps improve on, his recent goalscoring. Seeing more of him in training and early matches maybe suggested otherwise. With his last start, against Oldham on 24 October, he had scored one goal in 7 appearances, his career average.
So what could either of them do? Hill couldn't select him when the player wasn't providing what he'd hoped for, and Alessandra couldn't suddenly come up with the goods. No point in Hill apologising for making the signing, which would also amount to rubbishing the player. Having him on the subs' bench, plus the 20 minute appearance against Millwall, perhaps indicated that there was no Eagles-type squeezing out.
Of course, there might be a juicier explanation. |
He's certainly not going to improve his scoring record whilst never playing though.
Done,Andrew,Hendo to name a couple of forwards also had a crap ratio till they came to us.
I personally think somethings obviously gone on between the 2 and nothing even football related,he's never been given even a glimmer of a chance to show how good/bad he is during a match for anyone to make a judgement sadly. | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 19:44 - Mar 8 with 2557 views | midlandsdale |
| Lewis Alessandra on 18:42 - Mar 8 by ColDale |
I'd like to think it was something as simple that he hasn't impressed enough in training to warrant a run in the team. Hilly has fallen out with players many times before but they are never usually cut adrift completely, and often find themselves back in the starting eleven just when you think they'd never play for the club again. That's never happened to LA who right from the offset seems to have been unable to get past the bench.
Hilly clearly liked him enough last Summer to stick him on the decent wage that he's on. But in the long term, he's one of a number that we may need to reduce. My gut feeling is that we will reduce the number of first team players in the Summer to try and improve the quality. We know we won't be putting the finances of the club at risk, but taking Saturday as an example, we had Lancashire, Kennedy, Andrew, RNL, Tanser, Allessandra Cannon and Syers - all potential first team players but not involved in the matchday squad.
I know Calvin's injured, but that's a lot of money being spent that isn't impacting on the Saturday afternoon. If we want to improve as a team, we need the key funds being spent on those on the pitch.Its possible that it might be a few years before we will have a strike force as good as Holt and Hendo (assuming Holty can be persuaded to stay on), so it might be next season or a few more years consolidation. |
It may well be that he just isn't good enough but I doubt it.
He has never been given a decent run of match days even though we have suffered great inconsistency. In fact LA not getting a chance is the only consistent thing this season. Why Hill persists with NML and RNL ahead of our biggest summer addition doesn't make sense.
I hope he does really well for himself as the way he has been treated can hardly of helped his confidence or made him feel like he was part of the team. I think when Hill gets it wrong it tends to be his own stubbornness and I think this his achilles heel as a manager. |  | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 20:52 - Mar 8 with 2427 views | 442Dale |
| Lewis Alessandra on 19:26 - Mar 8 by D_Dale |
I hope you are wrong about York being doomed. It was often a good place to visit when Dale played there.
As for Alessandra, I'm not sure those posters who think some conspiracy or disagreement must exist are right.
Last summer Hill was hoping to find a new Matt Done. Soon after Done went, he was suggesting loanee Fabien Brandy would make a replacement, and when that didn't work Alessandra might have seemed a good option. In the 2014-15 season he'd scored a respectable 11 league goals for Plymouth, as well as wanting to move into the area for family reasons.
But those 11 goals represented a third of the league goals he'd scored in 8 seasons (33 goals in 171 starts and 64 appearances as a sub). Hill probably hoped that Alessandra would maintain, and perhaps improve on, his recent goalscoring. Seeing more of him in training and early matches maybe suggested otherwise. With his last start, against Oldham on 24 October, he had scored one goal in 7 appearances, his career average.
So what could either of them do? Hill couldn't select him when the player wasn't providing what he'd hoped for, and Alessandra couldn't suddenly come up with the goods. No point in Hill apologising for making the signing, which would also amount to rubbishing the player. Having him on the subs' bench, plus the 20 minute appearance against Millwall, perhaps indicated that there was no Eagles-type squeezing out.
Of course, there might be a juicier explanation. |
He'd got two in four starts before being dropped after the Oldham game. It was a bad miss that day, but if it'd had gone in would we still be having this discussion? Fine margins and all that. He certainly wasn't playing badly.
He'd also created a glorious opportunity for Vincenti at Bury that was squandered. |  |
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| Lewis Alessandra on 21:15 - Mar 8 with 2375 views | TalkingSutty |
| Lewis Alessandra on 20:52 - Mar 8 by 442Dale |
He'd got two in four starts before being dropped after the Oldham game. It was a bad miss that day, but if it'd had gone in would we still be having this discussion? Fine margins and all that. He certainly wasn't playing badly.
He'd also created a glorious opportunity for Vincenti at Bury that was squandered. |
There's been an on going kerfuffle with Alessander since the start of the season, at least it's sorted out now for the time being. |  | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 22:48 - Mar 8 with 2240 views | TVOS1907 |
| Lewis Alessandra on 18:13 - Mar 8 by ColDale |
The problem with questions like that is either the answers are bland media responses or they have the potential to stir things up. Flicker has been asked about Chris Eagles recently, and what appears to be an honest answer from him has only led to further issues. Quite understandably, Eagles hasn't been too chuffed about having his professionalism called into question, and has let it be known to the press that he's been frozen out after questioning the training which has led to injuries he's suffered. It's a no win situation, where the lesser of two evils is probably keeping fans somewhat in the dark. |
It shouldn't matter what response those questions get.
It's the job of the media to ask them, regardless of what response they produce.
I can understand people connected to the club not asking the manager things about Lillis and Alessandra, but there's no reason why the likes of the Observer and Radio Manchester shouldn't.
Eagles is a completely different matter. He's a former Manchester United player who has just lost a child and was therefore newsworthy on a broader level.
What has happened to Lillis and Alessandra is mainly of interest to Dale fans, but for some reason people are too scared to ask about them. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Lewis Alessandra on 23:29 - Mar 8 with 2185 views | Scunnydale |
Only seen Lewis once, when he came on as a sub against Hull. He looked sharp and full of tricks. At that point I thought he'd have a bright future, but for whatever reason it's not worked so far. I don't profess to know anything of the off-pitch shenanigans, but I do trust Hilly to do the best game by game for Dale. That said, I'm surprised Lewis hasn't figured. Who knows, eh?
I am glad he's gone to York though. My nephew's in the academy and I really want them to stay up - I would do without the family ties as it's always been my 'local' club. Score plenty to help York stay up and come back next month for Dale's run-in. Best of both worlds.
Good luck Lewis. |  | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 05:39 - Mar 9 with 2107 views | TalkingSutty |
| Lewis Alessandra on 22:48 - Mar 8 by TVOS1907 |
It shouldn't matter what response those questions get.
It's the job of the media to ask them, regardless of what response they produce.
I can understand people connected to the club not asking the manager things about Lillis and Alessandra, but there's no reason why the likes of the Observer and Radio Manchester shouldn't.
Eagles is a completely different matter. He's a former Manchester United player who has just lost a child and was therefore newsworthy on a broader level.
What has happened to Lillis and Alessandra is mainly of interest to Dale fans, but for some reason people are too scared to ask about them. |
I think it's because a lot of people feel as though they are answerable to Keith Hill For some reason, like they are scared to upset him, that's the bottom line. If he controls people to such an extent that they can only ask him certain questions or face his wrath there's a word for that ...bullying. I don't have a clue if that's the case and I would hope not.Its his job to respond to questions from the media regarding football matters, sometimes they might be uncomfortable questions but that goes with the job.Surely he doesn't dictate to the media what questions they can ask him does he?? If that is the case, what a sad situation.
If this scenario would have been played out when we had other managers at the Club I think the relevant questions would have been asked many months ago and the manager would have to explain why the biggest signing of the summer was seemingly frozen out at the expense of those with no real footballing pedigree. The fans would have been all over it.
Just ignoring the situation and not asking the question because it might upset the manager isn't normal. Asking the question is the normal thing to do when it involves the waste of a good wage that the Club can't afford.
All he needed to say was..'It's an internal issue that I don't want to/can't elaborate on'. Or ...'It's a long term issue, Lewis is struggling to settle at the Club and we are working together to sort things out'. Just ignoring the problem or not trying to explain them results in conspiracy theories, which is what we have now, it's inevitable.
In this case if I was a betting man I would imagine the person at fault is probably the player, a manager doesn't just sign somebody to not play him, it's obviously a issue that couldn't be resolved. Hill was scathing in the media regarding other players earlier in the seasons,so if he wasn't pulling his weight ( during the season) I would imagine Hill would have mentioned it during his interviews.
It's well known that Hilly isn't very good when it comes to dealing with the media , maybe we should just put this one down as another example and move on. [Post edited 9 Mar 2016 6:26]
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| Lewis Alessandra on 06:58 - Mar 9 with 2073 views | fitzochris |
| Lewis Alessandra on 22:48 - Mar 8 by TVOS1907 |
It shouldn't matter what response those questions get.
It's the job of the media to ask them, regardless of what response they produce.
I can understand people connected to the club not asking the manager things about Lillis and Alessandra, but there's no reason why the likes of the Observer and Radio Manchester shouldn't.
Eagles is a completely different matter. He's a former Manchester United player who has just lost a child and was therefore newsworthy on a broader level.
What has happened to Lillis and Alessandra is mainly of interest to Dale fans, but for some reason people are too scared to ask about them. |
Absolutely spot on.
The problem is that we don't have a strong or interested local paper whose primary interest is Dale.
BBC Radio Manc covers many teams and probably isn't as familiar with the minutiae at the club as we are. That's where a strong local paper comes in and the Observer just isn't it.
Unfortunately, that leaves the club itself as the only real news source we have. As good as the club is at delivering this, it will, understandably, always be partisan. |  |
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| Lewis Alessandra on 08:00 - Mar 9 with 2011 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
| Lewis Alessandra on 18:58 - Mar 8 by SteTsGoldenBoot |
This seems a similar situation to Jon Shaw. Probably no major falling out, just Hilly had a change of heart.
One of the first pre-season interviews Hilly said that Lewis had found it tough.
This may have given Donal his chance, which he has taken pretty much.
If there has been a falling out, both parties have handled it very professionally.
Good luck Lewis. |
He's a striker averaging 1 goal per 6.5 games. I'm amazed so many are lamenting him leaving on loan! |  | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 08:08 - Mar 9 with 2003 views | TalkingSutty |
| Lewis Alessandra on 08:00 - Mar 9 by Albert_Whitehurst |
He's a striker averaging 1 goal per 6.5 games. I'm amazed so many are lamenting him leaving on loan! |
The Plymouth fans where gutted when he left them,there was nobody on their forum who didnt rate him. It wasnt just about his goal tally it was about his overall play. Hilly obviously rated him also, he signed him. | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:23 - Mar 9 with 1941 views | Rosun |
Can he play at left back? |  | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:45 - Mar 9 with 1915 views | nordenblue |
| Lewis Alessandra on 08:00 - Mar 9 by Albert_Whitehurst |
He's a striker averaging 1 goal per 6.5 games. I'm amazed so many are lamenting him leaving on loan! |
It's the fact he's never had a chance not that hes gone out on loan,made even more bizarre when we were struggling for goals and he still wasn't tried. | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:50 - Mar 9 with 1907 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:45 - Mar 9 by nordenblue |
It's the fact he's never had a chance not that hes gone out on loan,made even more bizarre when we were struggling for goals and he still wasn't tried. |
His career tally suggests he wouldn't have been the answer when we were struggling for goals. | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:56 - Mar 9 with 1905 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
| Lewis Alessandra on 08:08 - Mar 9 by TalkingSutty |
The Plymouth fans where gutted when he left them,there was nobody on their forum who didnt rate him. It wasnt just about his goal tally it was about his overall play. Hilly obviously rated him also, he signed him. |
Being successful in League 2 over two seasons is clearly a world away from cutting it with a better manager at a better club.
Rare that Hill gets it wrong, perhaps he has...perhaps the player has. | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 10:34 - Mar 9 with 1854 views | davidab2202 |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:56 - Mar 9 by Albert_Whitehurst |
Being successful in League 2 over two seasons is clearly a world away from cutting it with a better manager at a better club.
Rare that Hill gets it wrong, perhaps he has...perhaps the player has. |
Probably the best answer yet to what the problem is if such problem actually exists.
Played much of his football at League 2 level,won't be the first or last player to struggle in an higher division.
When the question was raised on a Radio Manc phone in earlier in the season Chris Beech suggested that he was struggling in training to adapt to how he was being asked to play,particularly with defensive duties if my recall is right | | | |
| Lewis Alessandra on 13:02 - Mar 9 with 1626 views | D_Alien |
| Lewis Alessandra on 05:39 - Mar 9 by TalkingSutty |
I think it's because a lot of people feel as though they are answerable to Keith Hill For some reason, like they are scared to upset him, that's the bottom line. If he controls people to such an extent that they can only ask him certain questions or face his wrath there's a word for that ...bullying. I don't have a clue if that's the case and I would hope not.Its his job to respond to questions from the media regarding football matters, sometimes they might be uncomfortable questions but that goes with the job.Surely he doesn't dictate to the media what questions they can ask him does he?? If that is the case, what a sad situation.
If this scenario would have been played out when we had other managers at the Club I think the relevant questions would have been asked many months ago and the manager would have to explain why the biggest signing of the summer was seemingly frozen out at the expense of those with no real footballing pedigree. The fans would have been all over it.
Just ignoring the situation and not asking the question because it might upset the manager isn't normal. Asking the question is the normal thing to do when it involves the waste of a good wage that the Club can't afford.
All he needed to say was..'It's an internal issue that I don't want to/can't elaborate on'. Or ...'It's a long term issue, Lewis is struggling to settle at the Club and we are working together to sort things out'. Just ignoring the problem or not trying to explain them results in conspiracy theories, which is what we have now, it's inevitable.
In this case if I was a betting man I would imagine the person at fault is probably the player, a manager doesn't just sign somebody to not play him, it's obviously a issue that couldn't be resolved. Hill was scathing in the media regarding other players earlier in the seasons,so if he wasn't pulling his weight ( during the season) I would imagine Hill would have mentioned it during his interviews.
It's well known that Hilly isn't very good when it comes to dealing with the media , maybe we should just put this one down as another example and move on. [Post edited 9 Mar 2016 6:26]
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Another good post TS
Whether what happens, either between Hilly and the media or internally within the club can be called bullying, I don't know (although I've seen enough bullying in the workplace to last a lifetime and would recognise it in all it's many forms.)
What I do know is this - attempts to curtail questioning leads in one direction only, and that is: people stop communicating openly and honestly with the person in control of that process. In turn, that person's ability to do his or her job becomes diminished (that word again) and that only increases in effect over time. Everyone suffers as a result, not least the organisations ability to carry out it's function.
I'm encouraged that this isn't the case within the club by statements such as Holty coming into the dressing room and finding it a happy and comfortable milieu. On the other hand, we have Hilly himself saying earlier in the season that sometimes players might want to approach Beechy with issues they didn't want to take up directly with himself. He probably needs to ask himself why that's the case.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2016 13:05]
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| Lewis Alessandra on 13:32 - Mar 9 with 1567 views | nordenblue |
| Lewis Alessandra on 09:50 - Mar 9 by Albert_Whitehurst |
His career tally suggests he wouldn't have been the answer when we were struggling for goals. |
So did Hendo and Dones before they played here,there's many more to add to that list too.
Obviously Hilly thought there was something there too when he pulled out the stops to originally sign him | | | |
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