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BBC Football website this evening reads "Hill concerned at fan discontent". Whatever your opinion, between the (minority) boos on Saturday, the interminable thread on the KH post match comments and those comments themselves, we've managed a cracking marketing own-goal. Bit pointless complaining about the club's weakness in the PR & Marketing areas as happens ad infinitum on this forum and then in a stroke creating an impression of a disunited, unwelcoming club which players & fans (existing and future) are far less likely to want to be part of. Time for all concerned to learn a bit of perspective - or time to bang a few heads together!!
One big marketing own-goal on 14:51 - Dec 22 by dingdangblue
Apparently there was some sort of incident either during the Oldham game or afterwards. Hill said he hasn't mentioned it until now but Vincenti should be the last person to get any sort of stick bearing in mind what he's done since joining us.
I completely agree that if Vincenti was abused physically or verbally during/after the Oldham game that is completely unacceptable - and not because it's PV. I would say the same about Joe Bunney, or any of the other perceived under performers.
SIX different articles mention the fans including the match report and an interview with Rhys Bennett (he mentions fans' expectations yet then goes on to say players have high ones themselves of what they can achieve!)
Some of the headlines have to be seen to be believed. Reading it you'd think Spotland was a cauldron of hate... and yet the word "minority" is used more than once.
Hill talks of having to manage young players "too harshly" on the training pitch in preparation for situations on a Saturday. Says it wasn't like this when we got beat by Sheff Wed and were only three points from the relegation zone (during his last spell). Funny because the criticism of the likes of Joe Thompson was VERY harsh in the away end that day.
Says he won't get angry about it "like I spat my dummy out regularly" during his the first stint at Dale, then goes on to mention that maybe he should do it a bit more to protect the players. Do it more? Ace.
And to cap it all, the person who wrote the match report said the atmosphere was reminiscent to games during the Coleman era.
One big marketing own-goal on 15:02 - Dec 22 by fitzochris
I completely agree that if Vincenti was abused physically or verbally during/after the Oldham game that is completely unacceptable - and not because it's PV. I would say the same about Joe Bunney, or any of the other perceived under performers.
Agreed. I wish Hill or someone had said something at the time.
"Peter Vincenti received abuse from a fan/fans that was completely unacceptable and I'm sure all other fans would agree that doesn't help anyone"
One big marketing own-goal on 15:11 - Dec 22 by aleanddale
Hilly and the players need to chill out a bit and focus on three immediate things IMHO.
Having a belting Christmas days with their families.
Saturday 3pm - 4.55 v Crewe.
Some positive fan engagement during Saturday.
We are all desperate for all the team to do well and push the top 6 all the way. The tiny minority should not cause this much debate.
Let's just do all we can on Saturday from the terrace. Loud and proud. Hopefully grab a win and we can all go back to being one big family again!!
Up the Dale.
KHBA.
Hilly can put this to bed.. One bloke is easier to control than 2000+ there will always be some moans and groans FFS!!
The articles in the Obby are so over the top I can only think its an attempt to get our backs up and come out fighting on Saturday, a sort of tactic to get us in the mood to say " We're not shit supporters! We can back the team vocally - we'll show you"!! Hope it works and we can get some positive atmosphere going. Everyone needs to make a bigger effort both on and off the pitch.
Its a BRILLIANT goal to cap a BRILLIANT start by Rochdale - Don Goodman 26/08/10
One big marketing own-goal on 15:22 - Dec 22 by dingdangblue
The articles in the Obby are so over the top I can only think its an attempt to get our backs up and come out fighting on Saturday, a sort of tactic to get us in the mood to say " We're not shit supporters! We can back the team vocally - we'll show you"!! Hope it works and we can get some positive atmosphere going. Everyone needs to make a bigger effort both on and off the pitch.
Or it could have exactly the opposite effect, we shall await which of the 2 scenarios pan out...
One big marketing own-goal on 15:02 - Dec 22 by 442Dale
As DDB mentioned there is plenty in the Ob.
SIX different articles mention the fans including the match report and an interview with Rhys Bennett (he mentions fans' expectations yet then goes on to say players have high ones themselves of what they can achieve!)
Some of the headlines have to be seen to be believed. Reading it you'd think Spotland was a cauldron of hate... and yet the word "minority" is used more than once.
Hill talks of having to manage young players "too harshly" on the training pitch in preparation for situations on a Saturday. Says it wasn't like this when we got beat by Sheff Wed and were only three points from the relegation zone (during his last spell). Funny because the criticism of the likes of Joe Thompson was VERY harsh in the away end that day.
Says he won't get angry about it "like I spat my dummy out regularly" during his the first stint at Dale, then goes on to mention that maybe he should do it a bit more to protect the players. Do it more? Ace.
And to cap it all, the person who wrote the match report said the atmosphere was reminiscent to games during the Coleman era.
[Post edited 22 Dec 2015 15:32]
Reminiscent of the Coleman era? What? I wasn't there on Saturday but those I know who were, are as baffled by Hilly's comments about the crowd as everyone else.
The games I attended towards the end of the Coleman era did have an edge to them. There was a palpable unrest in the crowd.
I have yet to experience anything like that kind of atmosphere watching a match where Hill has been in charge.
One big marketing own-goal on 15:48 - Dec 22 by fitzochris
Reminiscent of the Coleman era? What? I wasn't there on Saturday but those I know who were, are as baffled by Hilly's comments about the crowd as everyone else.
The games I attended towards the end of the Coleman era did have an edge to them. There was a palpable unrest in the crowd.
I have yet to experience anything like that kind of atmosphere watching a match where Hill has been in charge.
[Post edited 22 Dec 2015 15:48]
I wasn't there either as I had to be elsewhere at short notice. 'Reminiscent of the Coleman' era is ridiculous. I admit to finding our play a bit lacking in entertainment value recently, but the league position is fair enough.
For a while now I have taken Hill's comments about fans as typical of the football professionals' widespread patronising view that all fans are idiots and know nothing. it is just that sometimes he comes out and says it whereas most others just think it.
The Rochdale Observer is basically recycled Andrex. They don't even have a reporter in Rochdale . I stopped buying it years ago and the savings have probably paid for my season ticket and more besides. The Wednesday circulation is down to 7000 and Saturday is 11,600, they are desperate to sell newspapers .They will inflate any story that will sell a couple of extra copies.
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One big marketing own-goal on 16:43 - Dec 22 with 2665 views
One big marketing own-goal on 16:23 - Dec 22 by 49thseason
The Rochdale Observer is basically recycled Andrex. They don't even have a reporter in Rochdale . I stopped buying it years ago and the savings have probably paid for my season ticket and more besides. The Wednesday circulation is down to 7000 and Saturday is 11,600, they are desperate to sell newspapers .They will inflate any story that will sell a couple of extra copies.
They haven't really inflated the story though; it's virtually what Hill said on Saturday.
One problem is that apart from discussions on here, the story was 3-4 days old and was starting to fade away, but because The Ob publishes on a Tuesday, it's the first chance they have had to report it.
I would wager that the majority of people who are interested in Dale and what Hill says will know within 24 hours of the game. That story will be 'new' to non-Dale supporters and although the Ob's circulation might be down to 7,000, a proportion of those will be lapsed fans and potentially new fans, so it really doesn't help.
It's also awful journalism. The story has already been reported by other media, so what does the Observer do? Report it again.
Would they have gone with that angle had Hill not made those comments? I very much doubt it and I've noticed increasingly over the last few years that whatever Hill says forms the basis of the Ob's back pages. Their journalists simply appear to lack the backbone to put forward their own views and interpretation of events or challenge anything he says.
Richard Partington was sat in the Main Stand and he will have heard negative comments that were no different to many other games.
His actual words in the report are 'one or two boos'; that's right 'ONE or TWO', so how does that translate into 'being reminiscent of the Coleman era' and six stories all referencing the same point that make out we are the most unhappy fans in the world.
Regarding Peter Vincenti's abuse at the Oldham game - it's simply unacceptable, but again, how many people was it? One? Two? Two thousand?
He himself in his TVOS column mentioned 'a very small minority', but the spin put on this by the Observer's headlines - which are what a lot of people will only read - suggests something a lot more sinister.
When Paul Simpson was about to be sacked as manager back in 2003, the Ob used the headline 'Macc Then The Knife?' before his final game at Macclesfield. At other times during that season and in previous managerial reigns, they haven't been afraid to rock the boat somewhat, but now they just take what Hill says as gospel and make a story out of it.
As a local community newspaper, I would expect them to support the club more than they do and not keep stirring up trouble with tabloid standard sensationalism. Sadly, they don't have the backbone nor the wherewithal to do that.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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One big marketing own-goal on 18:58 - Dec 22 with 2519 views
One big marketing own-goal on 13:35 - Dec 22 by dingdangblue
According to the Observer today/tomorrow edition its 100% upto the supporters to back the team. Other snippets (not sure if its all been said by Hill on Daleplayer) - very unhappy with Vincenti being abused v Oldham but Hill bit his tongue (learning from his 1st spell). Hendo could say he's fed up and wants to leave as loads of clubs would take him - if he's having a bad spell we need to support him - Dale should be like a family who help each other. Hill also said he chose to stay here (not sure if he meant his contract extension or that he's been offered jobs elsewhere). Not a pleasant read after a 3-1 win and 12th place in league 1.
We know that any of our players could chose to leave - we have been through that enough times already. Shame he couldn't bite his tongue a bit more!
Our memories are long enough to remember KH scooting offer to massive Barnsley (shortly after saying he was staying).
Why has he suddenly decided to bring this up now I wonder. About time reporters who take everything he says learnt how to ask a few probing questions.
I am afraid there are knuckleheads in every walk of life so one person possibly saying something stupid to one of our players hardly deserves to turning this into a battle with the 2000 fans who keep this club going before during and after Hills reigns.
Where are the board in all of this? as someone said previously the chairman is essentially a long standing fan - does he really believe KH, his employee, is helping the future of the club by these rants?
There were 2000 here before either of KHs reigns and they will be here long after he has gone and is no longer doing anything to keep this club alive.
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One big marketing own-goal on 19:04 - Dec 22 with 2502 views
Ten days after the event, it's amazing that nobody has asked the manager for a comment on O'Sullivan's suspension or whether we're appealing the red card after so much was made of it in last week's interview after the game. Surely following up on such stories is a basic?
It's moving from one interview to the next without reviewing what's gone before.
One big marketing own-goal on 18:49 - Dec 22 by TVOS1907
They haven't really inflated the story though; it's virtually what Hill said on Saturday.
One problem is that apart from discussions on here, the story was 3-4 days old and was starting to fade away, but because The Ob publishes on a Tuesday, it's the first chance they have had to report it.
I would wager that the majority of people who are interested in Dale and what Hill says will know within 24 hours of the game. That story will be 'new' to non-Dale supporters and although the Ob's circulation might be down to 7,000, a proportion of those will be lapsed fans and potentially new fans, so it really doesn't help.
It's also awful journalism. The story has already been reported by other media, so what does the Observer do? Report it again.
Would they have gone with that angle had Hill not made those comments? I very much doubt it and I've noticed increasingly over the last few years that whatever Hill says forms the basis of the Ob's back pages. Their journalists simply appear to lack the backbone to put forward their own views and interpretation of events or challenge anything he says.
Richard Partington was sat in the Main Stand and he will have heard negative comments that were no different to many other games.
His actual words in the report are 'one or two boos'; that's right 'ONE or TWO', so how does that translate into 'being reminiscent of the Coleman era' and six stories all referencing the same point that make out we are the most unhappy fans in the world.
Regarding Peter Vincenti's abuse at the Oldham game - it's simply unacceptable, but again, how many people was it? One? Two? Two thousand?
He himself in his TVOS column mentioned 'a very small minority', but the spin put on this by the Observer's headlines - which are what a lot of people will only read - suggests something a lot more sinister.
When Paul Simpson was about to be sacked as manager back in 2003, the Ob used the headline 'Macc Then The Knife?' before his final game at Macclesfield. At other times during that season and in previous managerial reigns, they haven't been afraid to rock the boat somewhat, but now they just take what Hill says as gospel and make a story out of it.
As a local community newspaper, I would expect them to support the club more than they do and not keep stirring up trouble with tabloid standard sensationalism. Sadly, they don't have the backbone nor the wherewithal to do that.
The most disappointing aspect to me is the Bury angle.
Is there a single Dale fan out there who'd want us to be following their example?
How can Hill get it so wrong? Get US so wrong?
The only explanation I could offer is that he wants us to be like Bury!!
One big marketing own-goal on 19:12 - Dec 22 by D_Alien
The most disappointing aspect to me is the Bury angle.
Is there a single Dale fan out there who'd want us to be following their example?
How can Hill get it so wrong? Get US so wrong?
The only explanation I could offer is that he wants us to be like Bury!!
[Post edited 22 Dec 2015 19:13]
Not their example but I took it as he's responding to posts on here criticising the club for not spending transfer funds on replacements. Personally I don't want us to waste money on transfers or big wages as it will only lead to problems.
Its a BRILLIANT goal to cap a BRILLIANT start by Rochdale - Don Goodman 26/08/10
One big marketing own-goal on 19:26 - Dec 22 by dingdangblue
Not their example but I took it as he's responding to posts on here criticising the club for not spending transfer funds on replacements. Personally I don't want us to waste money on transfers or big wages as it will only lead to problems.
Spot on, none of us do, which backs up what D_Alien says about him not understanding the fans at all.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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One big marketing own-goal on 19:29 - Dec 22 with 2428 views
Some of the performances of late have been crap, most of them local derbies. Vincenti had a hot streak of scoring a few goals but to be fair his performances this season have been pretty poor and so have Hendersons. Let's hear Hilly and the players involved argue that one. In fact Vincentis been a shadow of the player he was last season and so has Henderson. Would they not accept that themselves? Obviously they wouldn't.
Having said that they don't deserve personal abuse in any way, a few cat calls would be expected though,that's what happens when you don't perform. Only idiots applaud poor performances.
We seem to save our worst performances for local derbies, which makes me think the manager and the players are lacking a bit of metal, Hills pre and post match interviews reiterated my opinion on that one. We went down with a whimper, sit down and watch the games again and see how we pile on the pressure in the last twenty minutes, NOT. The game at Boundary Park was a bloody joke, a bit like the one at Oakwell last game of the season, school kids could have defended better. Are we wrong with that opinion Mr Hill, or is it the fans fault?
Keep voicing your opinions, and the manager and players who enjoy a bloody good living from the game making a big issue about a bit of booing or criticism over their performance is typical. They kick a ball around the field and look on themselves as ' Special Human Beings', they make me sick the lot of them.
I will be at all of the games over the Xmas period but to be honest I don't give a sh*t what Vincenti or Hill think. I won't be booing anybody because it does no good , I won't be sugar coating crap performances neither to massage the managers and players ego, say it how you see it.
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One big marketing own-goal on 19:54 - Dec 22 with 2387 views
One big marketing own-goal on 19:28 - Dec 22 by TVOS1907
Spot on, none of us do, which backs up what D_Alien says about him not understanding the fans at all.
Some have been critical of not spending to replace Hogan and Done - but you are right - I'm pretty sure none of us want a Stewart Day character coming from nowhere and putting the club in financial peril to achieve success.
Its a BRILLIANT goal to cap a BRILLIANT start by Rochdale - Don Goodman 26/08/10
One big marketing own-goal on 19:54 - Dec 22 by dingdangblue
Some have been critical of not spending to replace Hogan and Done - but you are right - I'm pretty sure none of us want a Stewart Day character coming from nowhere and putting the club in financial peril to achieve success.
I think i'ts more the ready made replacements comment made after the Done sale that pissed people off, that was a ridiculous comment to make as it was as has been proven not to be the case..
One big marketing own-goal on 19:50 - Dec 22 by TalkingSutty
Some of the performances of late have been crap, most of them local derbies. Vincenti had a hot streak of scoring a few goals but to be fair his performances this season have been pretty poor and so have Hendersons. Let's hear Hilly and the players involved argue that one. In fact Vincentis been a shadow of the player he was last season and so has Henderson. Would they not accept that themselves? Obviously they wouldn't.
Having said that they don't deserve personal abuse in any way, a few cat calls would be expected though,that's what happens when you don't perform. Only idiots applaud poor performances.
We seem to save our worst performances for local derbies, which makes me think the manager and the players are lacking a bit of metal, Hills pre and post match interviews reiterated my opinion on that one. We went down with a whimper, sit down and watch the games again and see how we pile on the pressure in the last twenty minutes, NOT. The game at Boundary Park was a bloody joke, a bit like the one at Oakwell last game of the season, school kids could have defended better. Are we wrong with that opinion Mr Hill, or is it the fans fault?
Keep voicing your opinions, and the manager and players who enjoy a bloody good living from the game making a big issue about a bit of booing or criticism over their performance is typical. They kick a ball around the field and look on themselves as ' Special Human Beings', they make me sick the lot of them.
I will be at all of the games over the Xmas period but to be honest I don't give a sh*t what Vincenti or Hill think. I won't be booing anybody because it does no good , I won't be sugar coating crap performances neither to massage the managers and players ego, say it how you see it.
We're criticised for only making noise when we're on top in a game, yet Hill only wants praise, not criticism. KH "I'm not here for that"
No, you're here to manage the team and represent the club in a professional manner.
Anything said to the media which can cause harm or loss to the club is thoroughly unprofessional. Fans are now openly admitting to staying away because of his comments. And no-one seems to be listening to us.
Time for a statement by CD? I'd expect him to come out supporting the manager but having regard for the points we're putting across. What happens behind closed doors can stay there, but this situation really needs something from the club to clear the air.
One big marketing own-goal on 20:04 - Dec 22 by D_Alien
We're criticised for only making noise when we're on top in a game, yet Hill only wants praise, not criticism. KH "I'm not here for that"
No, you're here to manage the team and represent the club in a professional manner.
Anything said to the media which can cause harm or loss to the club is thoroughly unprofessional. Fans are now openly admitting to staying away because of his comments. And no-one seems to be listening to us.
Time for a statement by CD? I'd expect him to come out supporting the manager but having regard for the points we're putting across. What happens behind closed doors can stay there, but this situation really needs something from the club to clear the air.
It will all blow over and the crowds will continue to creep in a downwards directions. We all know supporters who have stopped attending games. I know two who stopped completely after Hills post match interview at Fleetwood.
They stayed overnight in Blackpool for the weekend, paid a fortune and Hilly stated he had forgotten the score during the game and just dismissed the game as an irrelevance. Never been to a game since and probably never will. The man can't help himself.
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