| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 232231 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:54 - Jan 16 with 2888 views | WatfordR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:35 - Jan 16 by robith |
I guess the issue is that the Remain vote isn't distributed equally across the electoral map, and is mostly stacked in large urban centres. Pretty much all of the bellweather swing seats voted Leave, by solid margins. Tbh if Corbyn had backed remain in the last election, Labour would've been trounced.
I wasn't talking about the political leaders, I was talking general public. Go on twitter and search for FBPE. Absolute ghouls |
Mate, never bothered with Twitter before, and I’m not about to start now. I deal with the general public every day, and personally those who I think could classify as deranged would be massively in favour of Leave. Not interested in facts, figures and forecasts, only opinions plucked from the clouds. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 9:55]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:08 - Jan 16 with 2840 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:35 - Jan 16 by robith |
I guess the issue is that the Remain vote isn't distributed equally across the electoral map, and is mostly stacked in large urban centres. Pretty much all of the bellweather swing seats voted Leave, by solid margins. Tbh if Corbyn had backed remain in the last election, Labour would've been trounced.
I wasn't talking about the political leaders, I was talking general public. Go on twitter and search for FBPE. Absolute ghouls |
This is absolutely right, for all the rhetoric about Corbyn being a bumbling idealist with no political savvy, all the data shows that he and the Labour leadership have been absolutely correct on how to play this. The current fury is over why he won't come out for a second referendum. I suspect in a GE he might do, but right now, despite all the noise, it simply isn't popular and would be a massive own goal.
Re the FBPE lot, they are absolutely mental. One odd thing about Brexit is that it's animated a noisy minority of, I think, mostly middle class men, who had no previous interest in politics. They stomp around the place demanding a return to the halcyon days of 2015--which were shit for most of the country--loudly demonstrating their absolute political naivete and demanding that Corbyn somehow magically make Brexit go away. Absolute weapons.
[Post edited 16 Jan 2019 10:19]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:10 - Jan 16 with 2833 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:44 - Jan 16 by Lblock |
You forgot to mention that planes will fall out of the sky, the supply of aspirin will evaporate over night and everyone who voted Leave will grow horns.
I do wonder what the suppliers of all these goods to the UK will make of this fact you purport that they simply won’t be able to sell us these things or they’ll be stopped from getting them here by EU red tape. Seems draconian to me and Norway etc must feel very isolated not being in the club, or maybe nobody has cancer there?
Project Fear ramping its notches up nicely |
It's not EU red tape which will stop them, it's that the UK will have left the agreement by which those things can still be imported freely and easily.
If you want them to continue then a deal has to be agreed, that's the requirement. It's not project fear but the application of the legal condition that was created by Article 50. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 10:12]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:12 - Jan 16 with 2830 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:47 - Jan 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Hmm
This morning Donald Tusk says the UK should cancel Brexit...
I'm not wrong. |
So you have evidence rather than conjecture. What is it? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:13 - Jan 16 with 2817 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:12 - Jan 16 by AnonymousR |
So you have evidence rather than conjecture. What is it? |
It's on the BBC website, unless they made it up |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:16 - Jan 16 with 2803 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:47 - Jan 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Hmm
This morning Donald Tusk says the UK should cancel Brexit...
I'm not wrong. |
Donald Tusk isn't wrong.
Hard Brexit just won't work - you only have to listen to the CBI and financial experts. The EU won't come crawling to us as some people suggest.
The softer Brexit gets then it really begs the question: why bother at all? - we had a perfectly good deal with a rebate and vetoes rolled in. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:22 - Jan 16 with 2775 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:16 - Jan 16 by Mytch_QPR |
Donald Tusk isn't wrong.
Hard Brexit just won't work - you only have to listen to the CBI and financial experts. The EU won't come crawling to us as some people suggest.
The softer Brexit gets then it really begs the question: why bother at all? - we had a perfectly good deal with a rebate and vetoes rolled in. |
It looks to me like a Norway+ type deal, which is I think where a cross-party consensus that uses parliamentary procedure to go over May's head would end up, would be the worst of all worlds. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:23 - Jan 16 with 2770 views | BuckR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:54 - Jan 16 by WatfordR |
Mate, never bothered with Twitter before, and I’m not about to start now. I deal with the general public every day, and personally those who I think could classify as deranged would be massively in favour of Leave. Not interested in facts, figures and forecasts, only opinions plucked from the clouds. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 9:55]
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So the majority of the vote is deranged? Good logic |  | | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:26 - Jan 16 with 2756 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:13 - Jan 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
It's on the BBC website, unless they made it up |
Do you have evidence of a plan to 'foil' Brexit by May and the EU as you asserted yesterday? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:31 - Jan 16 with 2746 views | colinallcars |
An extension of Article 50 would have to be ratified by all 27 counties. Britain can however withdraw Article 50 at any time. Rather than no- deal, this will probably happen enraging half the country. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:46 - Jan 16 with 2713 views | ElHoop |
It seems a bit pointless arguing too noisily about this when there's no election, no second vote and we don't know what is actually going on in the background.
I was marginally in favour of leaving and voted accordingly. I wasn't happy about TTIP and certainly wouldn't be at all happy about a Trump version of TTIP so for me a Customs Union would be acceptable if it means that we don't run our own trade agreements right now. If Freedom of Movement doesn't apply to us then this would probably be acceptable to as many MPs and of the general population as it's possible to achieve right now. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:46 - Jan 16 with 2711 views | FDC |
This actually seems quite plausible to me fwiw.
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:54 - Jan 16 with 2690 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:46 - Jan 16 by FDC |
This actually seems quite plausible to me fwiw.
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Well, it avoids the issue of the leave vote being split.
However, we have been warned of hundreds and thousands rioting in the streets if there is another referendum...(tee hee) | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:55 - Jan 16 with 2683 views | WatfordR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:46 - Jan 16 by FDC |
This actually seems quite plausible to me fwiw.
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That was the format that was suggested on here in a thread a few weeks back. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:19 - Jan 16 with 2633 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:16 - Jan 16 by Mytch_QPR |
Donald Tusk isn't wrong.
Hard Brexit just won't work - you only have to listen to the CBI and financial experts. The EU won't come crawling to us as some people suggest.
The softer Brexit gets then it really begs the question: why bother at all? - we had a perfectly good deal with a rebate and vetoes rolled in. |
Snowflakes are all the rage in Europe ATM | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:23 - Jan 16 with 2618 views | BuckR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:54 - Jan 16 by Mytch_QPR |
Well, it avoids the issue of the leave vote being split.
However, we have been warned of hundreds and thousands rioting in the streets if there is another referendum...(tee hee) |
Just keep going shall we until we get to a remain vote instead? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:36 - Jan 16 with 2567 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:23 - Jan 16 by BuckR |
Just keep going shall we until we get to a remain vote instead? |
I suspect that's what the majority of MPs actually want, so yes - probably.
If the public get the option to vote for a no deal Brexit and that option wins then I suppose they will have to back down and let the sh*tstorm commence.
The whole thing has been a disgrace from the start. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:39 - Jan 16 with 2554 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:54 - Jan 16 by Mytch_QPR |
Well, it avoids the issue of the leave vote being split.
However, we have been warned of hundreds and thousands rioting in the streets if there is another referendum...(tee hee) |
I don't think the suggestion that a second referendum would cause further discord is particularly far-fetched tbh, especially if Remain were to win. Fwiw I think Leave would win with a greater majority, because the likes of Blair and Umunna would be right at the front of the Remain campaign, and they have learned precisely nothing from the past few years. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:41 - Jan 16 with 2541 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:26 - Jan 16 by AnonymousR |
Do you have evidence of a plan to 'foil' Brexit by May and the EU as you asserted yesterday? |
Yeah, Open your eyes and have a good look round, abject failer to bring about the result of the referendum, the EU do not respect the result and nor do many Mp's, from day one there has been a systematic plan by many to stop the result being implemented,
Maybe you have forgotten Cameron and May both say Leave means Leave, you don't hear her saying it anymore
There are none so blind as those who will not see, it's a complete sham. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 11:46]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:43 - Jan 16 with 2530 views | robith |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:08 - Jan 16 by FDC |
This is absolutely right, for all the rhetoric about Corbyn being a bumbling idealist with no political savvy, all the data shows that he and the Labour leadership have been absolutely correct on how to play this. The current fury is over why he won't come out for a second referendum. I suspect in a GE he might do, but right now, despite all the noise, it simply isn't popular and would be a massive own goal.
Re the FBPE lot, they are absolutely mental. One odd thing about Brexit is that it's animated a noisy minority of, I think, mostly middle class men, who had no previous interest in politics. They stomp around the place demanding a return to the halcyon days of 2015--which were shit for most of the country--loudly demonstrating their absolute political naivete and demanding that Corbyn somehow magically make Brexit go away. Absolute weapons.
[Post edited 16 Jan 2019 10:19]
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100%
They're always saying this ridiculous line of "We've lost our right to live, love and laugh in 27 countries" (they repeat it so often, it makes me physically ill) and I'm like, I'm not sure someone earning not enough money to live on working in Greggs in Bolton really gives two flying fecks about that.
I voted remain, but the way some of the remain crew have acted is like spoilt children who've been told for the first times in their lives they can't have what they want, and would nailed on lose another referendum with their "Everyone who voted Leave is stupid" schtick |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:47 - Jan 16 with 2514 views | robith |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:39 - Jan 16 by FDC |
I don't think the suggestion that a second referendum would cause further discord is particularly far-fetched tbh, especially if Remain were to win. Fwiw I think Leave would win with a greater majority, because the likes of Blair and Umunna would be right at the front of the Remain campaign, and they have learned precisely nothing from the past few years. |
In my opinion, a second referendum would solve nothing because all creditable polls (ie ones not commissioned by Remain with leading questions) have the two options with statistical variance of each other.
If remain wins 52-48, everything they've said in the last two years - it's a democracy we can change our minds, give the people a say on the final deal, questioning the result, it was advisory! etc are then equally applicable and we find ourselves in another quagmire.
I'd only call another referendum if I'd thought remain would get 68+%.
And then there's the fact that I suspect as you mention a lot of the Remain vanguard just wants things to go back to how they were. They can't. Regardless of the outcome of Brexit the country requires dramatic political, social and economic change and reform | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:53 - Jan 16 with 2488 views | WatfordR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:33 - Jan 16 by robith |
Well, based on that comment, I reckon you should check out FBPE twitter - you'd fit right in
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If having an opinion based on the info that is actually out there makes you deranged then hey ho. I originally voted Remain on the basis that we had a fragile economy and that to Leave was taking an unnecessary leap into the unknown with the potential for plenty of downside.
Since then I’m not aware of any forecasts, or anything based in fact, that suggests we’ll be better off leaving, short, medium or long term. Any time I ask those in favour of leaving to point me in the direction of facts or forecasts to back their stance, there’s generally nothing forthcoming.
I appreciate there are hardcore supporters on both sides of the argument and I’m not particularly othered about wasting my time trying to change or support their views. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:58 - Jan 16 with 2474 views | FDC |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:47 - Jan 16 by robith |
In my opinion, a second referendum would solve nothing because all creditable polls (ie ones not commissioned by Remain with leading questions) have the two options with statistical variance of each other.
If remain wins 52-48, everything they've said in the last two years - it's a democracy we can change our minds, give the people a say on the final deal, questioning the result, it was advisory! etc are then equally applicable and we find ourselves in another quagmire.
I'd only call another referendum if I'd thought remain would get 68+%.
And then there's the fact that I suspect as you mention a lot of the Remain vanguard just wants things to go back to how they were. They can't. Regardless of the outcome of Brexit the country requires dramatic political, social and economic change and reform |
The only vaguely compelling arguments I've heard for a second ref have come from Aditya Chakrabortty and Paul Mason, who both basically say Labour come out for a second referendum and should campaign on a Remain and Reform (or "Remain and Rebel" in Mason's case), allied in a GE with a clear economic program addressing the factors that they believe led to the Leave vote.
The latter point is definitely important for anyone building the case for a second referendum. And I do sympathise with these arguments, and it might well be where this ends up, but I think realistically it would be really difficult to delink Remain from that kind of FBPE messaging. There's a lot of money behind these People's Vote / Shiny New Centrist parties.
Right old mess. | | | |
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