| 4up 4 down 14:33 - Apr 21 with 5258 views | leicesterdale |
Don’t you think that it’s about time that the rules are changed governing Relegation/Promotion between League 2 and the National League.
Seriously, now that so many former league clubs are in the National League?
In fact, whilst we are about it, we can rename the National League as League Division Three?
I mean, it’s opens up league footbsll to a wider audience……. |  | | |  |
| 4up 4 down on 14:48 - Apr 21 with 4330 views | SuddenLad |
I read that they were proposing to introduce a top 3 promotion from National League - 4 th place promoted via play-offs and 4 relegated from League Two.
The suggestion was that it would be put forward at the annual meeting this summer. We'll have to see, but I agree that it is long overdue, especially now that all the teams are fully professional.
It's bound to happen sooner or later. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| 4up 4 down on 15:12 - Apr 21 with 4282 views | pioneer |
| 4up 4 down on 14:48 - Apr 21 by SuddenLad |
I read that they were proposing to introduce a top 3 promotion from National League - 4 th place promoted via play-offs and 4 relegated from League Two.
The suggestion was that it would be put forward at the annual meeting this summer. We'll have to see, but I agree that it is long overdue, especially now that all the teams are fully professional.
It's bound to happen sooner or later. |
Struggles to pass the sniff test, dale fans suddenly suggesting this as we are about to enter the conference. | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 15:21 - Apr 21 with 4249 views | SuddenLad |
| 4up 4 down on 15:12 - Apr 21 by pioneer |
Struggles to pass the sniff test, dale fans suddenly suggesting this as we are about to enter the conference. |
Sniff test? It's been discussed and suggested for years. it has nothing to do with whether or not Dale are there. Or haven't you been listening? | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| 4up 4 down on 15:23 - Apr 21 with 4248 views | sxdale |
| 4up 4 down on 15:12 - Apr 21 by pioneer |
Struggles to pass the sniff test, dale fans suddenly suggesting this as we are about to enter the conference. |
Have to agree with this, whether you agree with 4 up 4 down or not, I would have a lot more respect if this was being suggested and we were pushing for the playoffs. It's a bit like Burnley claiming they were too big a club to be relegated out of the league in the 80's and it should only be clubs like Rochdale.
Personally I would have top 2 promoted automatically and next 4 to play off across all divisions. | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 16:21 - Apr 21 with 4085 views | SuddenLad |
| 4up 4 down on 15:23 - Apr 21 by sxdale |
Have to agree with this, whether you agree with 4 up 4 down or not, I would have a lot more respect if this was being suggested and we were pushing for the playoffs. It's a bit like Burnley claiming they were too big a club to be relegated out of the league in the 80's and it should only be clubs like Rochdale.
Personally I would have top 2 promoted automatically and next 4 to play off across all divisions. |
That may be so, but the point being made was that 'Dale fans suggesting this', when in fact it isn't a suggestion from Dale fans.
It's a topic that has been discussed for many a year and it appears from what is being mentioned elsewhere that consideration is being given to increasing the number of places up/down.
It's not a 'Dale fans' suggestion by any means. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| 4up 4 down on 16:31 - Apr 21 with 4074 views | pioneer |
| 4up 4 down on 16:21 - Apr 21 by SuddenLad |
That may be so, but the point being made was that 'Dale fans suggesting this', when in fact it isn't a suggestion from Dale fans.
It's a topic that has been discussed for many a year and it appears from what is being mentioned elsewhere that consideration is being given to increasing the number of places up/down.
It's not a 'Dale fans' suggestion by any means. |
The original post on this thread was a dale fan suggesting it.That poster may not have been the first to suggest it but dint recall anyone on here suggesting it recently. | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 17:03 - Apr 21 with 4017 views | TVOS1907 |
| 4up 4 down on 16:31 - Apr 21 by pioneer |
The original post on this thread was a dale fan suggesting it.That poster may not have been the first to suggest it but dint recall anyone on here suggesting it recently. |
Correct, although I don't think LeicesterDale was being entirely serious.... |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| 4up 4 down on 17:21 - Apr 21 with 3962 views | davidab2202 |
Never been convinced of the fairness of the "Play-off " system when it is almost like a clean sheet for the teams involved, other than a type of seeding based on the final position after 46 games. Why a 3 match knock-out competition should "trump" a 46 game season defies logic other than for the money involved and the idea of interest being maintained for longer.
If it is used for promotion issues, then again why is the same principle not applied to relegation. Bottom 2 clubs relegated automatically with the next 4 clubs being involved in a dogfight for survival seems to me to follow as an idea.
Whilst not being the biggest fan of Notts County ,should they fail to get promoted through the play-offs how fair does that seem when they have had such a successful season | | | |
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| 4up 4 down on 18:22 - Apr 21 with 3880 views | blackdogblue |
| 4up 4 down on 17:21 - Apr 21 by davidab2202 |
Never been convinced of the fairness of the "Play-off " system when it is almost like a clean sheet for the teams involved, other than a type of seeding based on the final position after 46 games. Why a 3 match knock-out competition should "trump" a 46 game season defies logic other than for the money involved and the idea of interest being maintained for longer.
If it is used for promotion issues, then again why is the same principle not applied to relegation. Bottom 2 clubs relegated automatically with the next 4 clubs being involved in a dogfight for survival seems to me to follow as an idea.
Whilst not being the biggest fan of Notts County ,should they fail to get promoted through the play-offs how fair does that seem when they have had such a successful season |
Don’t let a certain person see negative comments about NCFC 😀
On a serious note, CBA researching this but posh names aside we have 4 divisions of league football.. should we have 5? What do other countries do, is there a Seria E for example?
Would the EFL be able to cope & what are the pros & cons…
It’s an interesting debate from my side and nothing is going to change things for us… but should it be in the future? |  |
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| 4up 4 down on 18:39 - Apr 21 with 3839 views | 49thseason |
In many respects I would prefer to be as far away from the EFL as possible. The lower two leagues are simply the scruffy neighbours as far as the EFL is concerned. 80% of their time , money and energy is focused on the Championship with the lower 48 feeding off the scraps.
I would rather the Championship became Premiership 2 and leave the rest of us, and by " rest of us" , I literally mean everything below, with the FA cup, League cup and a simple promotion / relegation system. |  | | |
| 4up 4 down on 22:23 - Apr 21 with 3632 views | leicesterdale |
| 4up 4 down on 17:03 - Apr 21 by TVOS1907 |
Correct, although I don't think LeicesterDale was being entirely serious.... |
Well, I wasn't indeed being entirely serious. Initially.
However, reading the various replies above, I do think there could be a benefit to the football community if the rules allowed for greater movement between League Two and the National League. A 'levelling up' of football, if you like.
Also, it does seem unfair if the team currently placed second in the National League are beaten to a Football League place by a team 36 points beneath them, in an end of season 'cup competition'. That would effectively mean that 12 wins of their season would be literally 'pointless'.
Whilst my suggestion of 4 up 4 down does seem somewhat disingenuous as we head for a Football League exit, I do feel there may be some merit in it's adoption.
We shall see...... | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 23:06 - Apr 21 with 3545 views | TVOS1907 |
| 4up 4 down on 17:21 - Apr 21 by davidab2202 |
Never been convinced of the fairness of the "Play-off " system when it is almost like a clean sheet for the teams involved, other than a type of seeding based on the final position after 46 games. Why a 3 match knock-out competition should "trump" a 46 game season defies logic other than for the money involved and the idea of interest being maintained for longer.
If it is used for promotion issues, then again why is the same principle not applied to relegation. Bottom 2 clubs relegated automatically with the next 4 clubs being involved in a dogfight for survival seems to me to follow as an idea.
Whilst not being the biggest fan of Notts County ,should they fail to get promoted through the play-offs how fair does that seem when they have had such a successful season |
I would say they should be grateful they've got a second chance of promotion having failed to secure the one promotion slot they knew was available when the season started in August... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| 4up 4 down on 23:24 - Apr 21 with 3498 views | NorthernDale |
Once the EFL finally get to vote on the matter, the process to address the inequalities will commence. So hopefully the 2023-24 season will see 3 up and 3 down, within the EFL 4 up and 4 down only impacts on the top of league 2 and bottom of league 1, which may seem unfair.
The playoffs have always appeared to be unfair and a lottery, in that within the national league, Notts County could finish second with 100 + points, but lose out. Just look at the 2021-22 season, Wrexham (2nd) finished 11 points in front of Grimsby (6th), but lost to Grimsby in the playoffs semi-finals. However it continues the excitement for many teams and that ensures the end of season games cease to be dead rubbers, but 3 up and 3 down is essential, because the national league is effectively league 3 and should potentially even come under the EFL control. | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 00:01 - Apr 22 with 3480 views | fermin |
I have heard arguments that it should be 3 up 3 down between L2 and L1 to make it the same as between L1 and the Championship. It seems more likely they would go for 3 between L2 and National League then there would be consistency if that also happens. I can't see L2 clubs voting for 4 up and down given the loss of funding outside the EFL but I am not sure how the voting system works. |  | | |
| 4up 4 down on 07:08 - Apr 22 with 3400 views | TalkingSutty |
| 4up 4 down on 23:06 - Apr 21 by TVOS1907 |
I would say they should be grateful they've got a second chance of promotion having failed to secure the one promotion slot they knew was available when the season started in August... |
Agree entirely, every club knows the rules before a ball is kicked. It's been only the league winner promoted for years so i don't understand the sympathy for the second placed team missing out, the amount of points they have accumulated is irrelevant. If you can't finish top you earn a play off place. Notts County will have achieved the same as those other clubs who will compete in that and nothing else, unless they win it.
In relation to our own situation, we also knew the rules. It will probably be a sad day today but there's been no bad luck involved, i haven't seen a poorer team than us this season and the league table doesn't lie. The fact we haven't been unlucky over the season makes a relegation much more easy to accept. It's a different feeling than it would have been had we slipped up in the last couple of games of the Great Escape season and probably lost our league status then. That team had character, bottle, fight and a never say die spirit, all the attributes that we've needed all season but have sadly been missing.
So as a Dale fan i expect no sympathy and i won't be accepting any neither from anybody. There will be words to appease but they wont be genuine from some, that's anoying in itself. We're not having a car full of doom and gloom on the way home after todays game neither, that's already been stated. Dwell on relegation for a few minutes then put it to bed and move on quickly. In a perfect world we will sort things out behind the scenes, bring in a new manager and players and start a fresh adventure in August. I'm not sure if it will pan out that way or not because like everybody else i haven't a clue what's going on behind the scenes, but we live in hope. [Post edited 22 Apr 2023 7:26]
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| 4up 4 down on 08:25 - Apr 22 with 3313 views | davidab2202 |
| 4up 4 down on 23:06 - Apr 21 by TVOS1907 |
I would say they should be grateful they've got a second chance of promotion having failed to secure the one promotion slot they knew was available when the season started in August... |
Appreciate the point that you are making and of course they will be well aware of the consequences of finishing second.
It is more the fairness when a season is 46 games long and it then comes down to a 3 match shootout .Might a team who go on a late season run of form and scrape into a playoff position feel they are in a better place to tackle the playoffs than a team who may be a bit more mentally drained from giving their all in a vain chase to catch the Champions--who knows but I feel it might come into play. | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 09:02 - Apr 22 with 3260 views | TVOS1907 |
| 4up 4 down on 08:25 - Apr 22 by davidab2202 |
Appreciate the point that you are making and of course they will be well aware of the consequences of finishing second.
It is more the fairness when a season is 46 games long and it then comes down to a 3 match shootout .Might a team who go on a late season run of form and scrape into a playoff position feel they are in a better place to tackle the playoffs than a team who may be a bit more mentally drained from giving their all in a vain chase to catch the Champions--who knows but I feel it might come into play. |
Yes, of course all that could happen, but the rules are known at the start of the competition.
We wouldn't want to go back to pre-play-off days where there are so many dead rubbers in the second half of the season. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| 4up 4 down on 09:13 - Apr 22 with 3238 views | JimmySquirrel61 |
If Notts fail to get promoted this season then there will no complaints from me as others have said we knew the rules last August,the team that we have this season is probably the best that I've seen play for 20 years but that doesn't mean that we've a right to win the playoffs,it's a lottery on the day,nobody would have bet on Grimsby beating Notts and Wrexham away to get to the final but they did,any other season we would have walked the league until Hollywood and Disney took an interest in Wrexham but fair play to them,having said that Mullin still is a nob though
It doesn't matter if it's two or three going up,it's going to be tough for Notts and Dale to go up,there's a lot of strong teams down in the NL and not just part timers and pub clubs now,Notts will struggle as much as Dale because our team will be broken up in May with key players being lured elsewhere,if we don't go up at least I will get a trip away to the COA which I always enjoy |  |
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| 4up 4 down on 10:08 - Apr 22 with 3152 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
They should adapt the same format they do in IPL in the cricket for the play offs, although they use it to decide the final. Assume that 2 go up outright it’s then.
3 plays 4 1 match winner gets to final
5 plays 6 winner gets to take on the loser of 3 vs 4 the other is out
Match one plays match 2 winner gets to play off final
Winner of final promoted.
It’s a much fairer way than current system as the better sides can in effect lose win win and get promotion whereas weaker sides need to win all 3. |  |
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| 4up 4 down on 10:33 - Apr 22 with 3123 views | 442Dale |
| 4up 4 down on 10:08 - Apr 22 by Thacks_Rabbits |
They should adapt the same format they do in IPL in the cricket for the play offs, although they use it to decide the final. Assume that 2 go up outright it’s then.
3 plays 4 1 match winner gets to final
5 plays 6 winner gets to take on the loser of 3 vs 4 the other is out
Match one plays match 2 winner gets to play off final
Winner of final promoted.
It’s a much fairer way than current system as the better sides can in effect lose win win and get promotion whereas weaker sides need to win all 3. |
That’s pretty much what they do in the National League so there’s no need for any sympathy for Chalky’s lot as they’ll get a home semi final against whoever finishes a million points behind them.
Vanarama National League
Eliminator A — Tuesday 2 May - 5th place vs 6th place
Eliminator B — Wednesday 3 May - 4th place vs 7th place
Semi-Final 1 — Sunday 7 May - 2nd place vs Eliminator A Winner
Semi-Final 2 — Sunday 7 May - 3rd place vs Eliminator B Winner
Promotion Final — Saturday 13 May |  |
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| 4up 4 down on 13:05 - Apr 22 with 3005 views | mikehunt |
The cynic in me thinks 4 up/down could have been done long ago but the b@stard EFL don’t want to pay four lots of parachute money. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| 4up 4 down on 13:20 - Apr 22 with 2982 views | James1980 |
How about 3 up 3 down? 1st and 2nd automatic and a playoff winner | |
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| 4up 4 down on 13:21 - Apr 22 with 2981 views | EllDale |
The cynic in me confirms that until recently I was dead against four up and four down in case Dale got sucked into a relegation battle.
Now, all of a sudden, I’m all for it! | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 13:27 - Apr 22 with 2971 views | EllDale |
Just had a peek at National League North to see who might be gaining promotion.
Top of the table are……Kings Lynn!!
Not quite sure how they can be deemed to be northern but Gloucester City are in a playoff place as well.
Hardly derby matches are they? | | | |
| 4up 4 down on 13:35 - Apr 22 with 2953 views | TVOS1907 |
| 4up 4 down on 13:27 - Apr 22 by EllDale |
Just had a peek at National League North to see who might be gaining promotion.
Top of the table are……Kings Lynn!!
Not quite sure how they can be deemed to be northern but Gloucester City are in a playoff place as well.
Hardly derby matches are they? |
Because there are 24 teams more southern than them at that level of the pyramid. There'll be three more next season - Maidstone, Yeovil and probably Torquay. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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