| Crown Estate latest 22:32 - Mar 10 with 3075 views | Kilkennyjack |
Our welsh councils are revolting ……
Bit of a shame really as Charlie boy always does the right thing by Wales … 🇬🇧 …. Known for it ….
What was Scotland thinking because everything always runs better from Westminster and Buck House, dont you know …. And Wales is wealthy enough already so not big deal to us …. |  |
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| Crown Estate latest on 08:09 - Mar 11 with 1799 views | Boundy |
Demanding and getting, there's a huge difference. |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Crown Estate latest on 15:37 - Mar 11 with 1701 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 08:09 - Mar 11 by Boundy |
Demanding and getting, there's a huge difference. |
Very true but even so, this would be the right thing to do. What I don't know though, is why YesCymru are taking credit? Are they represented on the 15 councils? What influence did they have or was it just the councils making a logical choice that gives Wales nearly what Scotland has? | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 16:19 - Mar 11 with 1675 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 15:37 - Mar 11 by SullutaCreturned |
Very true but even so, this would be the right thing to do. What I don't know though, is why YesCymru are taking credit? Are they represented on the 15 councils? What influence did they have or was it just the councils making a logical choice that gives Wales nearly what Scotland has? |
Its defo more than YesCymru activists as you suggest.
So instead of giving Wales the tools to get on with the job, they try to avoid ceding power.
And then blame Wales for asking for hand-outs.
You cant have it both ways.
And the man Starmer is a unionist to his boots.
Without modernisation and parity (with Scotland) the union becomes increasingly unfit for our modern world.
Renewables makes this one a more important issue than it might otherwise be. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 16:24 - Mar 11 with 1670 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 08:09 - Mar 11 by Boundy |
Demanding and getting, there's a huge difference. |
I am not sure i support the master/slave type of unionism that your post suggests is where we are at. You might be right though ….
Democratic mandates need to mean something in a western democracy.
Decisions about wales need to be made in Wales for welsh people and by welsh people.
Nothing else will do. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 18:57 - Mar 11 with 1626 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 16:24 - Mar 11 by Kilkennyjack |
I am not sure i support the master/slave type of unionism that your post suggests is where we are at. You might be right though ….
Democratic mandates need to mean something in a western democracy.
Decisions about wales need to be made in Wales for welsh people and by welsh people.
Nothing else will do. |
The part I disagree with is for Welsh people BY WELSH people, these decisions need to be made for Wales by Welsh residents.
In 2021 215000 Welsh residents were born outside Wales and I'm sure that figure has risen. All Weslh residents get democratic representation and I'm sure you'd agree.
I do agree that if the Union is to survive and prosper then things have to change, Wales has to be given the tools to do the job. If the Senedd has all the tools and still cannot do a decent job then things need to change again. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 22:18 - Mar 11 with 1571 views | union_jack |
| Crown Estate latest on 18:57 - Mar 11 by SullutaCreturned |
The part I disagree with is for Welsh people BY WELSH people, these decisions need to be made for Wales by Welsh residents.
In 2021 215000 Welsh residents were born outside Wales and I'm sure that figure has risen. All Weslh residents get democratic representation and I'm sure you'd agree.
I do agree that if the Union is to survive and prosper then things have to change, Wales has to be given the tools to do the job. If the Senedd has all the tools and still cannot do a decent job then things need to change again. |
Well the senedd certainly has a lot of tools Cat, that’s for sure!😉 |  |
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| Crown Estate latest on 00:41 - Mar 12 with 1550 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 18:57 - Mar 11 by SullutaCreturned |
The part I disagree with is for Welsh people BY WELSH people, these decisions need to be made for Wales by Welsh residents.
In 2021 215000 Welsh residents were born outside Wales and I'm sure that figure has risen. All Weslh residents get democratic representation and I'm sure you'd agree.
I do agree that if the Union is to survive and prosper then things have to change, Wales has to be given the tools to do the job. If the Senedd has all the tools and still cannot do a decent job then things need to change again. |
Agreed.
Yes - its not a DNA thing, its a civic thing.
If you live, work and love in Wales then you are welsh.
Except Boris Johnson, of course, we dont want that bag of shite … 💩 | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 08:17 - Mar 12 with 1513 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 22:18 - Mar 11 by union_jack |
Well the senedd certainly has a lot of tools Cat, that’s for sure!😉 |
I am not sure the Senedd can ever match Gove, Johnson, Truss, Hancock, and Mogg.
What a list of rogues.
Although a few in the Senedd do make you wonder …. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 10:21 - Mar 12 with 1465 views | union_jack |
| Crown Estate latest on 08:17 - Mar 12 by Kilkennyjack |
I am not sure the Senedd can ever match Gove, Johnson, Truss, Hancock, and Mogg.
What a list of rogues.
Although a few in the Senedd do make you wonder …. |
Rogues indeed Kilks, no argument there from me but as you say, they’re not alone in the fabric of UK politics😂 | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 19:47 - Mar 12 with 1376 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 00:41 - Mar 12 by Kilkennyjack |
Agreed.
Yes - its not a DNA thing, its a civic thing.
If you live, work and love in Wales then you are welsh.
Except Boris Johnson, of course, we dont want that bag of shite … 💩 |
I have to disagree again, many of our non Welsh residents will never call themselves Welsh, they will be proud Polish/African/English or whatever nationality they call themselves. They will be Welsh residents, or will Welsh people who live in Englaind be happy to be consdiered English?
This "civic" stuff is nonsense the way you have presentrd it. All residents have civic responsibility wherever they are from, wherever they live. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 14:53 - Mar 13 with 1178 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Crown Estate latest on 19:47 - Mar 12 by SullutaCreturned |
I have to disagree again, many of our non Welsh residents will never call themselves Welsh, they will be proud Polish/African/English or whatever nationality they call themselves. They will be Welsh residents, or will Welsh people who live in Englaind be happy to be consdiered English?
This "civic" stuff is nonsense the way you have presentrd it. All residents have civic responsibility wherever they are from, wherever they live. |
You need to think in generational terms. I know many Welsh of Italian heritage. Swansea have a young Polish born fullback who plays for Wales u19.
It is a combination of things with exceptions not ruling you out
DNA is only one feature. Geography, culture, religion, values cuisine etc. With mass immigration these boundaries are getting a bit blurred. This is why someone like Jason Mohammed is loved in Cardiff. He identifies as Welsh despite being a dark skinned Muslim of eastern heritage. He fits only 2-3 or the requirements for being called Welsh.
The exile from Wirral will focus again on ethnic purity as a slur. Welshness is a concept and everyone is welcome.
Cardiff has a statue problem which only thinkers like me consider. In one part of the city is an enormous Statue of Wales s first West Indian headmistress. In another place is Gareth Edwards who willingly played White skinned only rugby. Perhaps the headmistress was and acknowledgement of the sins of Welsh rugby who sold their souls.
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| Crown Estate latest on 15:52 - Mar 13 with 1160 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 14:53 - Mar 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You need to think in generational terms. I know many Welsh of Italian heritage. Swansea have a young Polish born fullback who plays for Wales u19.
It is a combination of things with exceptions not ruling you out
DNA is only one feature. Geography, culture, religion, values cuisine etc. With mass immigration these boundaries are getting a bit blurred. This is why someone like Jason Mohammed is loved in Cardiff. He identifies as Welsh despite being a dark skinned Muslim of eastern heritage. He fits only 2-3 or the requirements for being called Welsh.
The exile from Wirral will focus again on ethnic purity as a slur. Welshness is a concept and everyone is welcome.
Cardiff has a statue problem which only thinkers like me consider. In one part of the city is an enormous Statue of Wales s first West Indian headmistress. In another place is Gareth Edwards who willingly played White skinned only rugby. Perhaps the headmistress was and acknowledgement of the sins of Welsh rugby who sold their souls.
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Thinkers like you? If you'd really thought about it maybe you'd have understood that I was talking about people born outside Wales who have moved here, not people like Jason Mohammad who was born in Wales, born in Cardiff in fact.
Also Welshness is not a concept, you are Welsh or you are not. If you were born in Poland and move to Wales, settle here and live your time out here, that doesn't make you Welsh. That's why so many immigrants maintain their customs and practices for generations after they move to another country. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:20 - Mar 13 with 1143 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 15:52 - Mar 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Thinkers like you? If you'd really thought about it maybe you'd have understood that I was talking about people born outside Wales who have moved here, not people like Jason Mohammad who was born in Wales, born in Cardiff in fact.
Also Welshness is not a concept, you are Welsh or you are not. If you were born in Poland and move to Wales, settle here and live your time out here, that doesn't make you Welsh. That's why so many immigrants maintain their customs and practices for generations after they move to another country. |
We agree to disagree then.
If you contribute to wales and live, work and/or love in wales then you are welsh if you want to be.
I think starting on any other path is divisive and of no value.
Joe Calzaghe and many others have represented Wales with great honour and as welsh people we celebrate that.
When the son of an Iranian scores for Wales against England we wont care, and when the daughter of a Pole cares for your elderly relative in Morriston Hospital we wont care.
Whereas the Prince of Wales on the other hand …. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 17:25 - Mar 13 with 1137 views | Kilkennyjack |
Latest …. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 20:03 - Mar 13 with 1090 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Crown Estate latest on 15:52 - Mar 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Thinkers like you? If you'd really thought about it maybe you'd have understood that I was talking about people born outside Wales who have moved here, not people like Jason Mohammad who was born in Wales, born in Cardiff in fact.
Also Welshness is not a concept, you are Welsh or you are not. If you were born in Poland and move to Wales, settle here and live your time out here, that doesn't make you Welsh. That's why so many immigrants maintain their customs and practices for generations after they move to another country. |
You are wrong. I know someone (me) who speaks Turkish. At work i spoke to Mehmet Ak in another engineering consultancy. I spoke to hi in Turkish and he told me he knew not a word and considered himself English. His parents were Turkish. He was English in two generations.
Where you are born means not a lot psychologically. Many countries do not accept being born in a country gives you citizenship. Turkey took in 4 m Syrians 10 years ago and their children are not given TC citizenship.
I read this on Reuters
""Certain countries, including Switzerland, Japan and much of the European Union, do not confer citizenship automatically to babies born on their soil"". [Post edited 13 Mar 20:08]
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| Crown Estate latest on 17:42 - Mar 14 with 979 views | trampie |
| Crown Estate latest on 15:52 - Mar 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Thinkers like you? If you'd really thought about it maybe you'd have understood that I was talking about people born outside Wales who have moved here, not people like Jason Mohammad who was born in Wales, born in Cardiff in fact.
Also Welshness is not a concept, you are Welsh or you are not. If you were born in Poland and move to Wales, settle here and live your time out here, that doesn't make you Welsh. That's why so many immigrants maintain their customs and practices for generations after they move to another country. |
You obviously haven't heard Leanne Wood speak on what being Welsh is, the last i seen she is of the same opinion as Kilkenny on the matter. |  |
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| Crown Estate latest on 17:54 - Mar 14 with 974 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:42 - Mar 14 by trampie |
You obviously haven't heard Leanne Wood speak on what being Welsh is, the last i seen she is of the same opinion as Kilkenny on the matter. |
That would be why she's a very badly failed politician, most people knew she was talking nonsense. Another reason why Plaid failed.
I like the Greek islands, I'd love to be able to move there permanently but if I stayed there for the rest of my life, it wouldn't make me Greek. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:59 - Mar 14 with 962 views | trampie |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:54 - Mar 14 by SullutaCreturned |
That would be why she's a very badly failed politician, most people knew she was talking nonsense. Another reason why Plaid failed.
I like the Greek islands, I'd love to be able to move there permanently but if I stayed there for the rest of my life, it wouldn't make me Greek. |
It's all relative but I thought she was successful, she stopped the Plaid slide and won the Rhondda beating Labour in an election up there, which was quite a story at the time. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 21:00 - Mar 14 with 927 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:59 - Mar 14 by trampie |
It's all relative but I thought she was successful, she stopped the Plaid slide and won the Rhondda beating Labour in an election up there, which was quite a story at the time. |
Did she get Plaid a seat at the top table? Were they ever in charge of Wales? Then, she ran for Westminster twice and failed. She was the first person kicked out of the Assembly chamber, hardly a high spot. She got arrested in 2007. Then she lost her Rhondda seat to....BUFFY Williams! There were controversies too not least appearing to believe the Russians over the Skripal poisoning affair, seriously WTF? There's THAT memo too suggesting PC councillors only attend certain meetings, if they were in PC's interest. BTW, she appears to have talked about "Britishness" but I can't see any Welshness comments. She also appeared in a televised election debate and was judged to have finished last, not really a success.
She did well in a few areas, the Colman thing, the univeristy pay scandal (well it's a scandal to me anyway)
Lastly though, when we voted to leave the EU she said Wales needs to be independent and rejoin the EU, a blatant snub to a democratic choice made by the people. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 09:34 - Mar 15 with 840 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 21:00 - Mar 14 by SullutaCreturned |
Did she get Plaid a seat at the top table? Were they ever in charge of Wales? Then, she ran for Westminster twice and failed. She was the first person kicked out of the Assembly chamber, hardly a high spot. She got arrested in 2007. Then she lost her Rhondda seat to....BUFFY Williams! There were controversies too not least appearing to believe the Russians over the Skripal poisoning affair, seriously WTF? There's THAT memo too suggesting PC councillors only attend certain meetings, if they were in PC's interest. BTW, she appears to have talked about "Britishness" but I can't see any Welshness comments. She also appeared in a televised election debate and was judged to have finished last, not really a success.
She did well in a few areas, the Colman thing, the univeristy pay scandal (well it's a scandal to me anyway)
Lastly though, when we voted to leave the EU she said Wales needs to be independent and rejoin the EU, a blatant snub to a democratic choice made by the people. |
Mostly bollox, but just to pick up on your last paragraph.
If you lose a vote that does not mean you are wrong, and it does not mean you have to change your views. Democracy did not end in 2016.
Leanne Wood is 100 per cent correct that an Indy Wales should rejoin the EU.
Why ? Because its is the interest of the welsh people.
Brexit was a pack of lies and the uk economy will not recover until we align with the EU. To say nothing of the need for closer European security. Starmer is currently finding this out.
Leanne 1 Johnson 0. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 10:39 - Mar 15 with 812 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Crown Estate latest on 09:34 - Mar 15 by Kilkennyjack |
Mostly bollox, but just to pick up on your last paragraph.
If you lose a vote that does not mean you are wrong, and it does not mean you have to change your views. Democracy did not end in 2016.
Leanne Wood is 100 per cent correct that an Indy Wales should rejoin the EU.
Why ? Because its is the interest of the welsh people.
Brexit was a pack of lies and the uk economy will not recover until we align with the EU. To say nothing of the need for closer European security. Starmer is currently finding this out.
Leanne 1 Johnson 0. |
If you lose a vote it means that either most of those who voted think you are wrong or at the very least have failed.
Who mentioned 2016?
You agree with Wood which means you are very much in the minority, most Welsh people want to remain in the Union and that majority has only grown this last few years.
Leanne didn't score anything either, we voted leave, if we accept that she was right, Bojo still won because he carried the vote. You clearly cannot see the difference. As I have said before, democracy isn't predicated on being right, it stands on what the people vote for. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 11:11 - Mar 16 with 657 views | johnlangy |
| Crown Estate latest on 10:39 - Mar 15 by SullutaCreturned |
If you lose a vote it means that either most of those who voted think you are wrong or at the very least have failed.
Who mentioned 2016?
You agree with Wood which means you are very much in the minority, most Welsh people want to remain in the Union and that majority has only grown this last few years.
Leanne didn't score anything either, we voted leave, if we accept that she was right, Bojo still won because he carried the vote. You clearly cannot see the difference. As I have said before, democracy isn't predicated on being right, it stands on what the people vote for. |
'most Welsh people want to remain in the Union and that majority has only grown this last few years'.
Not wishing to intrude on the discussion between you and Trampie Cat but this is factually incorrect. Opinion polls over the last five years show the pro indy vote hovering in the low to mid twenties and the pro union vote in the low to mid fifties.
There have been some blips where NO went into up to 61% and where yes went up to 33%. But for the most part they went as above, mid twenties and mid fifties. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 13:52 - Mar 16 with 615 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Crown Estate latest on 11:11 - Mar 16 by johnlangy |
'most Welsh people want to remain in the Union and that majority has only grown this last few years'.
Not wishing to intrude on the discussion between you and Trampie Cat but this is factually incorrect. Opinion polls over the last five years show the pro indy vote hovering in the low to mid twenties and the pro union vote in the low to mid fifties.
There have been some blips where NO went into up to 61% and where yes went up to 33%. But for the most part they went as above, mid twenties and mid fifties. |
The age groups are not the same John, and thats important.
The younger people don’t use the war as a reference point for the union.
Indy support will grow and grow over time.
HS2, Crown Estate, safety for coal tips, Royals, etc all act as recruitment sergeants for Indy. | |
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| Crown Estate latest on 17:58 - Mar 16 with 569 views | johnlangy |
| Crown Estate latest on 13:52 - Mar 16 by Kilkennyjack |
The age groups are not the same John, and thats important.
The younger people don’t use the war as a reference point for the union.
Indy support will grow and grow over time.
HS2, Crown Estate, safety for coal tips, Royals, etc all act as recruitment sergeants for Indy. |
You're right KK. I was just correcting Cat's numbers across the whole demographic.
When they produce the numbers by age group the percentage is substantially higher in the younger groups. Which means that the YES percentage will grow naturally over time. | | | |
| Crown Estate latest on 18:07 - Mar 16 with 554 views | johnlangy |
| Crown Estate latest on 17:58 - Mar 16 by johnlangy |
You're right KK. I was just correcting Cat's numbers across the whole demographic.
When they produce the numbers by age group the percentage is substantially higher in the younger groups. Which means that the YES percentage will grow naturally over time. |
Just checked.
The latest one I could find showed that 55% of 18 - 24 year olds would vote yes. | | | |
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