| Cargiant site on 12:14 - Apr 20 with 3511 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 12:09 - Apr 20 by SydneyRs |
Bloody hell, isn't this exactly the type of stuff new stadiums are supposed to fix? |
Toilets at Leicester are an absolute joke in that corner, just so, so badly designed and huge queues as a result. Not to mention the stand moving around under your feet when you score.
Coventry downstairs in the away end a similar state.
A lot of these new grounds have been built to the minimum specifications by the lowest bidder to keep the cost down. In 50 years they'll be falling apart. |  | |  |
| Cargiant site on 12:30 - Apr 20 with 3398 views | nadera78 |
Just had a look at the PL table - I don't normally bother, because what's the point? - and saw Brentford are in 7th and Bournemouth in 8th, with both on the verge of playing in Europe. Don't they know they'll never be able to compete without a 30,000+ seat stadium full of conference rooms and a hotel?
Such silly clubs, focussing on being well run, recruiting good players and making the most of what they have. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 12:58 - Apr 20 with 3276 views | Juzzie |
| Cargiant site on 12:09 - Apr 20 by SydneyRs |
Bloody hell, isn't this exactly the type of stuff new stadiums are supposed to fix? |
Well, it'll piss off the hoardes of one-visit tourists, so doubt they'll care.
I have to say, going to the toilets at West Ham was a doddle, about the only good thing in that godforsaken $hithole. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 13:01 - Apr 20 with 3260 views | TheChef |
| Cargiant site on 10:04 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
I did always wonder about the wisdom of a ground surrounded by water on three sides (= one way out). |
And these places still get safety certificates??
Not what you know it's who you know, etc. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 13:02 - Apr 20 with 3265 views | CamberleyR |
| Cargiant site on 12:14 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
Toilets at Leicester are an absolute joke in that corner, just so, so badly designed and huge queues as a result. Not to mention the stand moving around under your feet when you score.
Coventry downstairs in the away end a similar state.
A lot of these new grounds have been built to the minimum specifications by the lowest bidder to keep the cost down. In 50 years they'll be falling apart. |
Never been to The Den so how does that one stand up Clive seeing as it's one of the oldest 'new' grounds, built 1993ish was it? |  |
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| Cargiant site on 13:29 - Apr 20 with 3166 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 13:02 - Apr 20 by CamberleyR |
Never been to The Den so how does that one stand up Clive seeing as it's one of the oldest 'new' grounds, built 1993ish was it? |
Pretty decent. Two tiers, close to the pitch, good atmosphere, great view. If you filled the corners in you'd have a hell of a place.
Downstairs, filthy, but the facilities have stood up reasonably well, and they've now got a load of decent beer and food things out the back of the away end too so their offering is streets ahead of ours. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 13:40 - Apr 20 with 3129 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 12:30 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
Just had a look at the PL table - I don't normally bother, because what's the point? - and saw Brentford are in 7th and Bournemouth in 8th, with both on the verge of playing in Europe. Don't they know they'll never be able to compete without a 30,000+ seat stadium full of conference rooms and a hotel?
Such silly clubs, focussing on being well run, recruiting good players and making the most of what they have. |
I mean one of them HAS built a new ground, so strange argument. Also Bournemouth have almost completely rebuilt Dean Court this century at the expense of £70m and are investing another £50m into development over the next 18 months.
Also - Why does it seem to be a binary thing with you? Why do we have to decide between building a new stadium and being well run and recruit good players? Couldn't we do both? That's what Brentford have done.
Right now we essentially do neither. At least a new stadium is electable. Being a forth club (with Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth) to punch miles above their weight when you have circa 100 clubs trying to do exactly the same thing is not a tap you can just turn on.
Where's the precedent for what you're advocating? Can you name me a team who have sustainably improved their standing within the football league pyramid without rebuilding, investing in or modernising their ground? |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:21 - Apr 20 with 3009 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 13:40 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
I mean one of them HAS built a new ground, so strange argument. Also Bournemouth have almost completely rebuilt Dean Court this century at the expense of £70m and are investing another £50m into development over the next 18 months.
Also - Why does it seem to be a binary thing with you? Why do we have to decide between building a new stadium and being well run and recruit good players? Couldn't we do both? That's what Brentford have done.
Right now we essentially do neither. At least a new stadium is electable. Being a forth club (with Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth) to punch miles above their weight when you have circa 100 clubs trying to do exactly the same thing is not a tap you can just turn on.
Where's the precedent for what you're advocating? Can you name me a team who have sustainably improved their standing within the football league pyramid without rebuilding, investing in or modernising their ground? |
Both of those clubs built/rebuilt their stadiums AFTER they'd got everything else in place. They were already well run clubs, with excellent recruitment and with internal structures that were more important than any one individual coach, manager, wunderkind CEO, etc.
We, on the other hand, have owners who have spent 15 years veering wildly from one plan to another, always talking a big game but delivering nothing. Less than nothing in fact. I see no evidence whatsoever that they're even capable of running this club properly - they apparently want to take on an Australian team, presumably because that's the trendy thing to do right now. So go ahead, do that. And add an all-singing, all-dancing new stadium to the list of things they'd rather do than actually get on with the boring, day to day business of running this football club.
But it's those boring, day to day things that Brentford and Bournemouth have done, and in fact did before they built/rebuilt their grounds. The things, truth be told, that put them in a position to do that. | | | |
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| Cargiant site on 14:34 - Apr 20 with 2957 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 14:21 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
Both of those clubs built/rebuilt their stadiums AFTER they'd got everything else in place. They were already well run clubs, with excellent recruitment and with internal structures that were more important than any one individual coach, manager, wunderkind CEO, etc.
We, on the other hand, have owners who have spent 15 years veering wildly from one plan to another, always talking a big game but delivering nothing. Less than nothing in fact. I see no evidence whatsoever that they're even capable of running this club properly - they apparently want to take on an Australian team, presumably because that's the trendy thing to do right now. So go ahead, do that. And add an all-singing, all-dancing new stadium to the list of things they'd rather do than actually get on with the boring, day to day business of running this football club.
But it's those boring, day to day things that Brentford and Bournemouth have done, and in fact did before they built/rebuilt their grounds. The things, truth be told, that put them in a position to do that. |
Ok we get it; you don't like the owners. I don't disagree with the majority of those points myself.
But pieces of land in our borough don't become available often. Who knows where / when the next will? If we don't seize this opportunity and let Imperial College build their 12,000th campus there instead, where do we go from there? What if we end up with even worse owners that would willingly move us out of the borough entirely?
What measures do we use as indicators that we're now well run enough to warrant trusting them to build a new ground? Does promotion have to come first? Playoffs? Two playoffs? By any measure that form would be temporary anyway and given how long it'll take to move ground, it's a bit ridiculous to introduce form as a dependency to building a new stadium in my view. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:02 - Apr 20 with 2891 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 14:34 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Ok we get it; you don't like the owners. I don't disagree with the majority of those points myself.
But pieces of land in our borough don't become available often. Who knows where / when the next will? If we don't seize this opportunity and let Imperial College build their 12,000th campus there instead, where do we go from there? What if we end up with even worse owners that would willingly move us out of the borough entirely?
What measures do we use as indicators that we're now well run enough to warrant trusting them to build a new ground? Does promotion have to come first? Playoffs? Two playoffs? By any measure that form would be temporary anyway and given how long it'll take to move ground, it's a bit ridiculous to introduce form as a dependency to building a new stadium in my view. |
We don't need a 30,000 seat stadium. West London doesn't need any more conference facilities. You don't need either of this things to be a successful PL club - or even just to be more successful than QPR currently is!
Work with what we've got at Loftus Rd and make it the best it can be. There are things they could do to make it a better venue - from automated food and drink machines (Millwall have had auto beer machines for several years), to seats that take up less space, to increased standing options, to better protection from the rain. Hell, even a working PA system would be a start.
When you have an old building that has had bits and pieces added to it in an ad hoc way over 40 years and by different owners you end up wasting space and putting things in bad locations. Pound to a penny there are things that could be moved to create more space, more options.
I'm not talking about digging down or cantilevering over SAR here. If we so desired, we could make Loftus Rd a much better place to visit - whilst keeping what we all love about the old girl. But that's part of the problem, our owners are always looking for a magic bullet when they'd be better off doing the smaller, simpler (but less flashy) things that would make a tangible difference. [Post edited 20 Apr 15:05]
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| Cargiant site on 15:09 - Apr 20 with 2839 views | LongsufferingR |
"seats that take up less space" oh, all manner of hellfire is about to rain down on you on here for that suggestion! |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:16 - Apr 20 with 2800 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 15:02 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
We don't need a 30,000 seat stadium. West London doesn't need any more conference facilities. You don't need either of this things to be a successful PL club - or even just to be more successful than QPR currently is!
Work with what we've got at Loftus Rd and make it the best it can be. There are things they could do to make it a better venue - from automated food and drink machines (Millwall have had auto beer machines for several years), to seats that take up less space, to increased standing options, to better protection from the rain. Hell, even a working PA system would be a start.
When you have an old building that has had bits and pieces added to it in an ad hoc way over 40 years and by different owners you end up wasting space and putting things in bad locations. Pound to a penny there are things that could be moved to create more space, more options.
I'm not talking about digging down or cantilevering over SAR here. If we so desired, we could make Loftus Rd a much better place to visit - whilst keeping what we all love about the old girl. But that's part of the problem, our owners are always looking for a magic bullet when they'd be better off doing the smaller, simpler (but less flashy) things that would make a tangible difference. [Post edited 20 Apr 15:05]
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Well that reads like pure conjecture. I've read bits and pieces down the years about how expensive it is to touch anything within LR as touching almost anything could risk structural integrity. I'm sure there was a pretty public piece about that weird glass box at the end of the SB stand that we had to build for the PL and now we're pretty much stuck with making the most of it as it'd be too expensive / risky to move. There are snippets in this very thread about a £1m quote to fix the PA system.
Again - Where's the precedent for what you're suggesting? Why did Everton leave Goodison, Sunderland leave Roker Park, Derby leave the Baseball Ground, Cardiff leave Ninian Park, Arsenal leave Highbury etc. etc. etc? Why has NOBODY else decided to stick with a housing-estate condensed footprint?
As stated previously, I don't want to leave LR either. But you have to consider that this place might be written off as unsafe in the next 10/20/30 years. Changing the seats or providing automated pints won't help with that. Then what happens? You may be forced to build a whole new stadium anyway... We're running out of places we can put it. And even the current footprint may not be viable. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:27 - Apr 20 with 2771 views | JezHoops |
| Cargiant site on 15:02 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
We don't need a 30,000 seat stadium. West London doesn't need any more conference facilities. You don't need either of this things to be a successful PL club - or even just to be more successful than QPR currently is!
Work with what we've got at Loftus Rd and make it the best it can be. There are things they could do to make it a better venue - from automated food and drink machines (Millwall have had auto beer machines for several years), to seats that take up less space, to increased standing options, to better protection from the rain. Hell, even a working PA system would be a start.
When you have an old building that has had bits and pieces added to it in an ad hoc way over 40 years and by different owners you end up wasting space and putting things in bad locations. Pound to a penny there are things that could be moved to create more space, more options.
I'm not talking about digging down or cantilevering over SAR here. If we so desired, we could make Loftus Rd a much better place to visit - whilst keeping what we all love about the old girl. But that's part of the problem, our owners are always looking for a magic bullet when they'd be better off doing the smaller, simpler (but less flashy) things that would make a tangible difference. [Post edited 20 Apr 15:05]
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Apologies if I have misunderstood , but are you actually suggesting “seats that take up less space”?
The current space is already terribly cramped. I love the atmosphere at LR, but the experience otherwise is appalling. Especially in the SB/Ellerslie Stand. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:33 - Apr 20 with 2746 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 15:16 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Well that reads like pure conjecture. I've read bits and pieces down the years about how expensive it is to touch anything within LR as touching almost anything could risk structural integrity. I'm sure there was a pretty public piece about that weird glass box at the end of the SB stand that we had to build for the PL and now we're pretty much stuck with making the most of it as it'd be too expensive / risky to move. There are snippets in this very thread about a £1m quote to fix the PA system.
Again - Where's the precedent for what you're suggesting? Why did Everton leave Goodison, Sunderland leave Roker Park, Derby leave the Baseball Ground, Cardiff leave Ninian Park, Arsenal leave Highbury etc. etc. etc? Why has NOBODY else decided to stick with a housing-estate condensed footprint?
As stated previously, I don't want to leave LR either. But you have to consider that this place might be written off as unsafe in the next 10/20/30 years. Changing the seats or providing automated pints won't help with that. Then what happens? You may be forced to build a whole new stadium anyway... We're running out of places we can put it. And even the current footprint may not be viable. |
Arsenal and Everton moved because they're huge clubs who had a ready made fanbase desperately waiting for the chance to buy season tickets. Sunderland, Derby, Cardiff moved because their old grounds were absolute sh**holes and - in the case of at least one of them - they were gifted derelict land to build on.
If Loftus Rd is ever condemned as unsafe than the blame would sit entirely with the owners who have allowed it to become run down and decrepit whilst they dreamed of fantasy land schemes. Again, always the magic bullet with these owners and never the basics. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:38 - Apr 20 with 2720 views | Hayesender |
| Cargiant site on 10:04 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
I did always wonder about the wisdom of a ground surrounded by water on three sides (= one way out). |
Free armbands with every ticket in case of emergencies |  |
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| Cargiant site on 15:48 - Apr 20 with 2682 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 15:33 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
Arsenal and Everton moved because they're huge clubs who had a ready made fanbase desperately waiting for the chance to buy season tickets. Sunderland, Derby, Cardiff moved because their old grounds were absolute sh**holes and - in the case of at least one of them - they were gifted derelict land to build on.
If Loftus Rd is ever condemned as unsafe than the blame would sit entirely with the owners who have allowed it to become run down and decrepit whilst they dreamed of fantasy land schemes. Again, always the magic bullet with these owners and never the basics. |
"Arsenal and Everton moved because they're huge clubs who had a ready made fanbase desperately waiting for the chance to buy season tickets. Sunderland, Derby, Cardiff moved because their old grounds were absolute sh**holes and - in the case of at least one of them - they were gifted derelict land to build on."
Ok what about Southampton, Hull, Leicester, Coventry, Swansea, Doncaster, Shrewsbury, Colchester, Chesterfield, Brighton, Rotherham, Morecambe, Brentford, Wimbledon, York, Boston and Scunthorpe?
Almost every single one faced a choice of sticking narrower seats and automated hot dogs in a stadium sandwiched by terraced houses or building new stadiums. They ALL made the least cost effective and sustainable choice did they?
"If Loftus Rd is ever condemned as unsafe than the blame would sit entirely with the owners who have allowed it to become run down and decrepit whilst they dreamed of fantasy land schemes. Again, always the magic bullet with these owners and never the basics."
The question wasn't who's to blame, it was what action do we take if that eventuality materialises?
For the third time - Can you name ONE precedent that matches your advocation? If not I'll assume you're merely using this subject to lash out at the owners and have no intention of actually debating the subject matter pragmatically and leave you be. [Post edited 20 Apr 15:50]
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| Cargiant site on 15:59 - Apr 20 with 2636 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 15:48 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
"Arsenal and Everton moved because they're huge clubs who had a ready made fanbase desperately waiting for the chance to buy season tickets. Sunderland, Derby, Cardiff moved because their old grounds were absolute sh**holes and - in the case of at least one of them - they were gifted derelict land to build on."
Ok what about Southampton, Hull, Leicester, Coventry, Swansea, Doncaster, Shrewsbury, Colchester, Chesterfield, Brighton, Rotherham, Morecambe, Brentford, Wimbledon, York, Boston and Scunthorpe?
Almost every single one faced a choice of sticking narrower seats and automated hot dogs in a stadium sandwiched by terraced houses or building new stadiums. They ALL made the least cost effective and sustainable choice did they?
"If Loftus Rd is ever condemned as unsafe than the blame would sit entirely with the owners who have allowed it to become run down and decrepit whilst they dreamed of fantasy land schemes. Again, always the magic bullet with these owners and never the basics."
The question wasn't who's to blame, it was what action do we take if that eventuality materialises?
For the third time - Can you name ONE precedent that matches your advocation? If not I'll assume you're merely using this subject to lash out at the owners and have no intention of actually debating the subject matter pragmatically and leave you be. [Post edited 20 Apr 15:50]
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That long list of clubs - Southampton, Hull, Leicester, Swansea, Brentford all left their old, run down stadiums that were falling apart. Brighton, Wimbledon, York didn't have a stadium between them. Loftus Rd is not like that, it's perfectly suitable for QPR, it just needs to be looked after better.
And, yes, it is a matter of who is to blame. We have a choice whether or not we maintain Loftus Rd as a suitable venue for QPR. That the owners aren't doing so is a choice, their choice.
And it doesn't matter who else has or hasn't done what. Every situation is different. It's possible for QPR, because Loftus Rd is suitable for us. [Post edited 20 Apr 16:03]
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| Cargiant site on 16:04 - Apr 20 with 2618 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 15:59 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
That long list of clubs - Southampton, Hull, Leicester, Swansea, Brentford all left their old, run down stadiums that were falling apart. Brighton, Wimbledon, York didn't have a stadium between them. Loftus Rd is not like that, it's perfectly suitable for QPR, it just needs to be looked after better.
And, yes, it is a matter of who is to blame. We have a choice whether or not we maintain Loftus Rd as a suitable venue for QPR. That the owners aren't doing so is a choice, their choice.
And it doesn't matter who else has or hasn't done what. Every situation is different. It's possible for QPR, because Loftus Rd is suitable for us. [Post edited 20 Apr 16:03]
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Well that's just more opinion / conjecture. I'm not sure of the measure that renders The Dell, Griffin Park or Filbert Street 'falling apart' but Loftus Road a bastion of long term structural integrity.
Still not a single precedent or comparison offered so I'll opt out of this one now. Cheers. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:43 - Apr 20 with 2506 views | SpongeParr |
| Cargiant site on 15:59 - Apr 20 by nadera78 |
That long list of clubs - Southampton, Hull, Leicester, Swansea, Brentford all left their old, run down stadiums that were falling apart. Brighton, Wimbledon, York didn't have a stadium between them. Loftus Rd is not like that, it's perfectly suitable for QPR, it just needs to be looked after better.
And, yes, it is a matter of who is to blame. We have a choice whether or not we maintain Loftus Rd as a suitable venue for QPR. That the owners aren't doing so is a choice, their choice.
And it doesn't matter who else has or hasn't done what. Every situation is different. It's possible for QPR, because Loftus Rd is suitable for us. [Post edited 20 Apr 16:03]
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I still don't really understand your points.
You mention other grounds that were falling down, yet you say LR is fine. Last season, part of the roof blew off in a storm when a game was playing!
It's very expensive to keep running and those costs go up as everything gets older. Evening Birmingham had to shut 2 stands as their ground was unsafe. They are now building a new ground.
At some stage, we will need a new ground whether you like it or not. And no one likes it as we all love LR but you have to be realistic. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:57 - Apr 20 with 2449 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 16:43 - Apr 20 by SpongeParr |
I still don't really understand your points.
You mention other grounds that were falling down, yet you say LR is fine. Last season, part of the roof blew off in a storm when a game was playing!
It's very expensive to keep running and those costs go up as everything gets older. Evening Birmingham had to shut 2 stands as their ground was unsafe. They are now building a new ground.
At some stage, we will need a new ground whether you like it or not. And no one likes it as we all love LR but you have to be realistic. |
Agree.
Whilst we're talking about Birmingham... Here's a to-scale view of LR's footprint vs St Andrews'.
Birmingham are electing to leave that site and build a brand new stadium a mile away. But we want to confine our selves to this space indefinitely?
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| Cargiant site on 17:14 - Apr 20 with 2381 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 16:57 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Agree.
Whilst we're talking about Birmingham... Here's a to-scale view of LR's footprint vs St Andrews'.
Birmingham are electing to leave that site and build a brand new stadium a mile away. But we want to confine our selves to this space indefinitely?
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And Birmingham's new stadium will be a mile or two from the Birmingham HS2 terminus at Curzon Street.
Blues have been working with the Government and the local authority to get a tunnel built to allow a new tramway to be built linking the city centre, Curzon Street and the new stadium.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/m |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 22:26 - Apr 20 with 2020 views | PunteR |
| Cargiant site on 15:16 - Apr 20 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Well that reads like pure conjecture. I've read bits and pieces down the years about how expensive it is to touch anything within LR as touching almost anything could risk structural integrity. I'm sure there was a pretty public piece about that weird glass box at the end of the SB stand that we had to build for the PL and now we're pretty much stuck with making the most of it as it'd be too expensive / risky to move. There are snippets in this very thread about a £1m quote to fix the PA system.
Again - Where's the precedent for what you're suggesting? Why did Everton leave Goodison, Sunderland leave Roker Park, Derby leave the Baseball Ground, Cardiff leave Ninian Park, Arsenal leave Highbury etc. etc. etc? Why has NOBODY else decided to stick with a housing-estate condensed footprint?
As stated previously, I don't want to leave LR either. But you have to consider that this place might be written off as unsafe in the next 10/20/30 years. Changing the seats or providing automated pints won't help with that. Then what happens? You may be forced to build a whole new stadium anyway... We're running out of places we can put it. And even the current footprint may not be viable. |
"But you have to consider that this place might be written off as unsafe in the next 10/20/30 years."
This argument that Loftus road is crumbling or unsafe has been popping up a fair bit this week. Where's the evidence that its not structurally sound. Bits of roof flying off doesn't count btw. That is apparently getting repaired , maybe all that corrugated sheeting will get replaced. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 with 1961 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 22:26 - Apr 20 by PunteR |
"But you have to consider that this place might be written off as unsafe in the next 10/20/30 years."
This argument that Loftus road is crumbling or unsafe has been popping up a fair bit this week. Where's the evidence that its not structurally sound. Bits of roof flying off doesn't count btw. That is apparently getting repaired , maybe all that corrugated sheeting will get replaced. |
Anecdotally, increasing amounts of stories emanating from the School End. I shudder every time I see that upper tier packed out and people standing in the aisles like they do, if anybody has a heart attack up there nobody is getting to them. We've quietly had to house 50 away fans down in the corner of the lower end with a portable toilet and a coffee cart to bring the upper tier capacity down. There was an incident the season before last where people in the lower tier had to be moved for falling concrete. It feels like an accident waiting to happen that end of the ground. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 with 1959 views | daveB |
It's all great to talk about this as a realistic idea but I just look at the money and it's non starter. £100million for the land before you even put a spade in the ground. The owners have not wanted to pay for any land for a new stadium so far, it's a pipe dream I'm afraid. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 23:40 - Apr 20 with 1864 views | PunteR |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
Anecdotally, increasing amounts of stories emanating from the School End. I shudder every time I see that upper tier packed out and people standing in the aisles like they do, if anybody has a heart attack up there nobody is getting to them. We've quietly had to house 50 away fans down in the corner of the lower end with a portable toilet and a coffee cart to bring the upper tier capacity down. There was an incident the season before last where people in the lower tier had to be moved for falling concrete. It feels like an accident waiting to happen that end of the ground. |
Well then, that is a serious problem and something that definitely needs sorting regardless of new stadium at Cargiant. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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