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Which is worse? Come on, the answer is obvious, even to you two.
You are not fooling anybody.
OK you know it's worse, well done you.
I'm not trying to fool anyone really, my personal opinion is that we are playing better under Holloway and I'm enjoying it more than I did when Hasselbaink was manager. I've never said JFH was terrible or his record was awful i'm just giving my own opinion that from what I've seen we are playing better than before although results haven't always reflected the performances.
If you want to judge only on points then thats upto you for me Holloway has had far tougher away games such as Brighton, Newcastle and Reading to face and he did far better in those games than JFH did at home and I don't think it's so black and white that you can only form opinions based on numbers.
For instance my sons team won 8-2 last week and 1-0 today but todays performance was far better as they were playing a much better side and played really well but if you look at the results on their own you'd assume the 8-2 was better. Same as with QPR, we won 2-1 under JFH at Fulham but drew at home against them but anyone who was at both games will tell you we played far better in the draw than we did in the win which is why I believe it's better now. As I say though you are entitled to think otherwise and to use the numbers to suit your argument.
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Spot of bother now........ on 12:29 - Feb 5 with 2299 views
Nah, f*ck this thread. There's no bother. There has been some improvement. We've lost a couple recently but we're not playing like absolute palsybeasts anymore. We got a point away at Newcastle. We nearly held off Blackburn. We were the better side against Fulham. It's all good.
It'll be a little bit uncomfortable but there's no way we're going down. We're just unpredictable enough that we'll get points where we shouldn't and if our fixtures are tough, that plays right into our hands.
The good thing is we're not entirely embarrassing anymore. I'll totally take that.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
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Spot of bother now........ on 12:47 - Feb 5 with 3309 views
Spot of bother now........ on 12:30 - Feb 5 by Bluce_Ree
Nah, f*ck this thread. There's no bother. There has been some improvement. We've lost a couple recently but we're not playing like absolute palsybeasts anymore. We got a point away at Newcastle. We nearly held off Blackburn. We were the better side against Fulham. It's all good.
It'll be a little bit uncomfortable but there's no way we're going down. We're just unpredictable enough that we'll get points where we shouldn't and if our fixtures are tough, that plays right into our hands.
The good thing is we're not entirely embarrassing anymore. I'll totally take that.
Agree with a lot of this but "better side v Fulham" even with my biggest QPR hat on that's pushing it a bit!
Think we will have enough to stay up with 6/8pts to spare.
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Spot of bother now........ on 13:37 - Feb 5 with 3222 views
Spot of bother now........ on 12:27 - Feb 5 by daveB
OK you know it's worse, well done you.
I'm not trying to fool anyone really, my personal opinion is that we are playing better under Holloway and I'm enjoying it more than I did when Hasselbaink was manager. I've never said JFH was terrible or his record was awful i'm just giving my own opinion that from what I've seen we are playing better than before although results haven't always reflected the performances.
If you want to judge only on points then thats upto you for me Holloway has had far tougher away games such as Brighton, Newcastle and Reading to face and he did far better in those games than JFH did at home and I don't think it's so black and white that you can only form opinions based on numbers.
For instance my sons team won 8-2 last week and 1-0 today but todays performance was far better as they were playing a much better side and played really well but if you look at the results on their own you'd assume the 8-2 was better. Same as with QPR, we won 2-1 under JFH at Fulham but drew at home against them but anyone who was at both games will tell you we played far better in the draw than we did in the win which is why I believe it's better now. As I say though you are entitled to think otherwise and to use the numbers to suit your argument.
Yeah, but do you know it's worse?
You do understand how the league works, right? It doesn't go on whether you, me or anybody think we're playing better, it goes on the number of points you get.
That is why this isn't some aimless discussion over statistics. That is why it matters that Holloway's record is worse than Hasselbaink's. We are closer to relegation under Holloway than we were under Hasselbaink because we are winning points at a lower rate.
Keep making whatever value judgements you like, but points per game is the critical, objective measure. Don't pretend it isn't.
Spot of bother now........ on 13:45 - Feb 5 by isawqpratwcity
Yeah, but do you know it's worse?
You do understand how the league works, right? It doesn't go on whether you, me or anybody think we're playing better, it goes on the number of points you get.
That is why this isn't some aimless discussion over statistics. That is why it matters that Holloway's record is worse than Hasselbaink's. We are closer to relegation under Holloway than we were under Hasselbaink because we are winning points at a lower rate.
Keep making whatever value judgements you like, but points per game is the critical, objective measure. Don't pretend it isn't.
Which is worse? Come on, the answer is obvious, even to you two.
You are not fooling anybody.
Just to clarify , if we win the next two do they then not have the same record , maths was never my strong point. Suerely you cant compare until they've played the same number ?
It's being so happy that keeps me going.
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Spot of bother now........ on 14:10 - Feb 5 with 3132 views
Spot of bother now........ on 14:07 - Feb 5 by Stanisgod
Just to clarify , if we win the next two do they then not have the same record , maths was never my strong point. Suerely you cant compare until they've played the same number ?
Which is worse? Come on, the answer is obvious, even to you two.
You are not fooling anybody.
You're actually loving all this aren't ya. I think the recent improvement (performance, atmosphere, style of football, our own kids playing, club unity etc) is something to get behind, support and push forward. Its what we generally yearned after. How anyone would use a stat, a stat that bears no real relation to the true progress of this club atm, to get their rocks off on a keyboard is beyond me.
Technology advances, unfortunately humans do not.
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Spot of bother now........ on 14:38 - Feb 5 with 3042 views
Spot of bother now........ on 14:07 - Feb 5 by Stanisgod
Just to clarify , if we win the next two do they then not have the same record , maths was never my strong point. Suerely you cant compare until they've played the same number ?
That's why it's points per game. Coincidentally, Holloway's record after 14 games is exactly where it was when I first made this comparison after 9 games; still exactly 1.00 points per game.
Fwiw, I suggested that 2T2B concede that Holloway's record is worse so far (nobody knows what is in the future, right?), but no, these boys cannot concede anything that criticises Holloway. It's like North bloody Korea.
If Holloway does get his points per game up to match (or even exceed) Hasselbaink's, then we will be in no danger of relegation and we will all be happy. Just don't pretend we're there yet.
I didn't want us to change the manager mid season this year or last.
When JFH came in we had a really poor run, dropping many points in the last few minutes of matches. I think it was ten matches, approx., before he got a win.
Ollie came in and lost his first six. Then he got fortunate that Mackie was fit, which had been denied both his predecessors and he found, with an enforced change at Wolves, that Manning could step up.
From that point on our performance has been much improved in the majority of our matches and our form has been better overall.
JFH's side hit a decent patch of form at home towards the end of last season. Something similar this season should see us finish higher up the table.
We need to put the meaningless stats to bed and concentrate on making Loftus Road a fortress again!
Come on u Rrrrrrrs
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Spot of bother now........ on 15:12 - Feb 5 with 2975 views
Spot of bother now........ on 14:34 - Feb 5 by cheeseydane
You're actually loving all this aren't ya. I think the recent improvement (performance, atmosphere, style of football, our own kids playing, club unity etc) is something to get behind, support and push forward. Its what we generally yearned after. How anyone would use a stat, a stat that bears no real relation to the true progress of this club atm, to get their rocks off on a keyboard is beyond me.
Have you read through all of this thread? Have you seen any post of mine, anywhere, where I have criticised any of the criteria you list?
No, you haven't.
Btw, that stat that you say "bears no real relation to the true progress of this club" is the one that decides if we go into League One next season.
I put this on the Reading report:
"Never mind that I thought JFH shouldn't have been sacked, it didn't matter, he was gone and not coming back. But worse was, despite Holloway's pedigree, he just wasn't performing. Even the Wolves and Ipswich games weren't convincing.
"But this was the business. 100%, no question. A plan, performances from every player and confidence."
"But not for me. I hear his pronouncements only as the the usual 'manager's noises'. I go by what I see on the pitch. I thought the Reading and Fulham games were the best we've played since Warnock's promotion season (although tbf, I don't see that many games) and because it was such a complete turnaround (players performances, plan, spirit, confidence, everything), I give him unreserved, full credit for that improvement. Here's hoping that he can tap into that vein again. It's so close."
So don't tell me I'm doing this to get my rocks off. Do some research before you make accusations like that. I want Holloway to succeed as much as anybody, because if he succeeds, we succeed. I just don't subscribe to this ridiculous 'there's-nothing-wrong-with-Holloway' crap.
Spot of bother now........ on 14:39 - Feb 5 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Well as Stanisgod has pointed out (not played the same number of games re points)
It's you that's not fooling anybody just yourself
So now you can have my answer
Nope not worse yet...
But I'm sure you will be back next week should we not beat Huddersfield who are flying otm and claim your righteous badge.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2017 14:53]
Christ on a bike! That's what you're relying on, that they haven't played the same number of games? That is why it is points per game.
Choose better counsel: Stanisgod said maths was never his strong point.
If you are serious, then you don't have as much of a grasp of this as I thought and I may have to cut you more slack.
But I don't think so. I'd say the bloke who crafts the phrase "it's true that results in terms of points have not been better" knows what he is saying and is trying to hide an unwelcome reality.
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