| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 56620 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 11:02 - Jun 4 with 2791 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Share sale on 10:56 - Jun 4 by fitzochris |
I’m told all articles of association were adhered to in this sale. |
I am sure they would be, else the transfer of shares between parties would not be legally complete under the Companies Act.
Plus, if you are going to be buying something you will want your due diligence done properly particularly if you see that investment you are making as valuable. |  |
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| Share sale on 11:04 - Jun 4 with 2787 views | fermin |
The difference with Brentford is that Benham is a lifelong Brentford fan with a large fortune, so in that respect he is a younger version of Dunphy with a lot more money. This new guy has zero emotional attachment to us so it is more of a risk.
While I am sure Dunphy et al would not do anything deliberately to damage the club it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they could do it inadvertently. My small local non-league club was run by a committee of diehards who managed to put the club's future in jeopardy by selling a significant part of it to a smooth-talking fraudster, boiler room scam artist and fantasist (who is now in jail in the US). A simple internet search on him by me and others suspicious at his credentials and in particular the bombastic tone of the announcement revealed his dodgy background in minutes, but those in charge were clearly a bit naive. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/12/oxford-city-football-club-and-its-onanis |  | | |
| Share sale on 12:44 - Jun 4 with 2585 views | 442Dale |
Although not specific to this situation:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/11/meeting-with-the-directors-nov-2019/
<<“ What importance do the directors put on the necessity for investment? If it is required, why now when we have a recognised model of spending what we can afford and selling on players to increase income into the club?
The conversation regarding investment was a lengthy one, and had raised a number of concerns from Trust members at the recent AGM. The concerns from the Trust were that the events at Bury had highlighted what can happen when “investors” come into a club, and that world of football was seemingly filled with stories of investors coming in promising the earth but the ones that prove to be successful were very much in the minority. We have a long history where the Board at Dale have evolved rather than been subject to frequent change, and that has provided a stability and an acceptance of the “Rochdale way”. The Board accepted this but responded that the game has changed in recent years and there is an ever-growing need for financial support in the game. In recent years, we have been heavily reliant on player sales, and we cannot keep hoping that player sales will fill the financial gap. We sold three players in 2018-19, and we cannot as a club assume we will always be able to do that. The Directors said they were very much stewards of the club and they see the investment as being ensuring that there will still be a club to support in another hundred years. Any investor would have to be aligned to the vision of the Board, and it would go without saying that they would be very, very carefully considered.
Given the club have admitted to having “Non-Disclosure agreements” signed, how far along is the club in obtaining investment, and will the club agree to keep the Trust abreast of any club ownership developments as agreed in the MOU?
The Board admitted that they were in discussions but the nature of a non-disclosure agreement meant that they were limited to what they could say about it. They agreed that they would keep the Trust informed of any potential changes.”>> |  |
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| Share sale on 13:23 - Jun 4 with 2494 views | D_Alien |
Another factor is the mooted salary cap for L1 & L2
The seemingly imminent requirement for outside investment highlighted in 442's post would surely be contingent on the expected increasing wage demands from agents/players in a pre-covid environment. Much has changed, nothing as yet decided but imo it would be foolish to take even the remotest chance on introducing outside investment at this stage, even more so when potential investors should be far more wary of the changes which are taking place in lower league football
I don't have the figures regarding the percentage of expenditure on player wages from the latest published accounts, but i'd be surprised if it comprised less than 50% of overall expenditure
I suppose this would have to be balanced with potential shortfall in gate income in the short-to-medium term, but the same will surely apply to most clubs of similar stature to ourselves, so unless they have significant outside investment we'd not be disadvantaged |  |
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| Share sale on 13:34 - Jun 4 with 2456 views | James1980 |
If we reached it what sort of crowds would we get in the second tier? |  |
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| Share sale on 13:37 - Jun 4 with 2443 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 13:34 - Jun 4 by James1980 |
If we reached it what sort of crowds would we get in the second tier? |
It's a fair question
Our average over the past few seasons has been running at around the 3500 mark. I'd predict a rise of between 1000-1500, depending on the geography of visiting fans and whether we were at least being competitive or not | |
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| Share sale on 14:00 - Jun 4 with 2395 views | James1980 |
| Share sale on 13:37 - Jun 4 by D_Alien |
It's a fair question
Our average over the past few seasons has been running at around the 3500 mark. I'd predict a rise of between 1000-1500, depending on the geography of visiting fans and whether we were at least being competitive or not |
I would love it to be the case maybe it is but hopefully we haven't sold ourselves as being a potential sleeping giant. | |
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| Share sale on 14:03 - Jun 4 with 2383 views | TVOS1907 |
| Share sale on 14:00 - Jun 4 by James1980 |
I would love it to be the case maybe it is but hopefully we haven't sold ourselves as being a potential sleeping giant. |
I doubt that, James |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Share sale on 14:08 - Jun 4 with 2366 views | judd |
| Share sale on 13:23 - Jun 4 by D_Alien |
Another factor is the mooted salary cap for L1 & L2
The seemingly imminent requirement for outside investment highlighted in 442's post would surely be contingent on the expected increasing wage demands from agents/players in a pre-covid environment. Much has changed, nothing as yet decided but imo it would be foolish to take even the remotest chance on introducing outside investment at this stage, even more so when potential investors should be far more wary of the changes which are taking place in lower league football
I don't have the figures regarding the percentage of expenditure on player wages from the latest published accounts, but i'd be surprised if it comprised less than 50% of overall expenditure
I suppose this would have to be balanced with potential shortfall in gate income in the short-to-medium term, but the same will surely apply to most clubs of similar stature to ourselves, so unless they have significant outside investment we'd not be disadvantaged |
Think it was 95% |  |
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| Share sale on 14:10 - Jun 4 with 2358 views | fitzochris |
He issued me with a statement when I asked him some direct questions. | |
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| Share sale on 14:13 - Jun 4 with 2341 views | judd |
| Share sale on 14:10 - Jun 4 by fitzochris |
He issued me with a statement when I asked him some direct questions. |
Good work, Fitzo | |
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| Share sale on 14:39 - Jun 4 with 2239 views | isitme |
| Share sale on 14:10 - Jun 4 by fitzochris |
He issued me with a statement when I asked him some direct questions. |
That's for this. It sounds promising. |  | | |
| Share sale on 14:43 - Jun 4 with 2199 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Share sale on 14:10 - Jun 4 by fitzochris |
He issued me with a statement when I asked him some direct questions. |
Very well done on breaking this important story.
I do suspect our CEO will be seething this news was broken in this way.
I assume that these new investors are now the biggest shareholder of the club, do you know? | |
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| Share sale on 14:48 - Jun 4 with 2180 views | StudiousDale |
Cheers Fitzochris.
I've tried to dig into Emre Marcelli & KURZHAAR FUND/CAPITAL but i've not had much luck - has anyone found anything? This in itself is quite strange, because a Fund should have external information/a snazzy website (as they are looking to attract money that they the invest and take ~0.5% fees off).
Would agree it seems quite MoneyBall oriented, but are other teams really not doing this/does this data exist for players below the football league? |  | | |
| Share sale on 14:49 - Jun 4 with 2175 views | judd |
| Share sale on 14:43 - Jun 4 by RAFCBLUE |
Very well done on breaking this important story.
I do suspect our CEO will be seething this news was broken in this way.
I assume that these new investors are now the biggest shareholder of the club, do you know? |
No. As of last listing they will own c. 17% with about 71,000 shares. Chairman has 110,000. Think Andrew Kelly has about 40,000.
I don't know what has happened to Jim Marsh's c. 35,000, it if this share sale to the Americans has gone on who is to say others haven't happened?
Confirmation statement due this month. | |
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| Share sale on 15:06 - Jun 4 with 2097 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 14:48 - Jun 4 by StudiousDale |
Cheers Fitzochris.
I've tried to dig into Emre Marcelli & KURZHAAR FUND/CAPITAL but i've not had much luck - has anyone found anything? This in itself is quite strange, because a Fund should have external information/a snazzy website (as they are looking to attract money that they the invest and take ~0.5% fees off).
Would agree it seems quite MoneyBall oriented, but are other teams really not doing this/does this data exist for players below the football league? |
Some level of relatively detailed data certainly does exist for players down to at least the third tier of non-league football. For Brentford, it appears to have worked well scouting abroad, particularly in France and Denmark. I think quite a few other teams are doing something similar, but with a little less structure and a little more instinct involved. |  |
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| Share sale on 15:12 - Jun 4 with 2057 views | 1997Dale |
| Share sale on 14:48 - Jun 4 by StudiousDale |
Cheers Fitzochris.
I've tried to dig into Emre Marcelli & KURZHAAR FUND/CAPITAL but i've not had much luck - has anyone found anything? This in itself is quite strange, because a Fund should have external information/a snazzy website (as they are looking to attract money that they the invest and take ~0.5% fees off).
Would agree it seems quite MoneyBall oriented, but are other teams really not doing this/does this data exist for players below the football league? |
I know that I have heard many times that Football Manager have the second biggest scouting network in world football behind Real Madrid and as well as all the other countries they go a few leagues into none league here | | | |
| Share sale on 15:14 - Jun 4 with 2052 views | Reedy |
| Share sale on 15:06 - Jun 4 by AtThePeake |
Some level of relatively detailed data certainly does exist for players down to at least the third tier of non-league football. For Brentford, it appears to have worked well scouting abroad, particularly in France and Denmark. I think quite a few other teams are doing something similar, but with a little less structure and a little more instinct involved. |
Cautiously optimistic, I think if it wasn’t for the pandemic this would’ve been announced a good while ago. It would’ve been easy for them to walk away due to the pandemic, so I think it’s a good sign they’ve continued during these incredibly uncertain times.
The item at the top of his to do list, getting a training ground with facilities to incorporate the academy would be a huge step forward. I would be interested to see if the sporting director works, and if it will be someone with connections to the club already.
I’m glad that the statement doesn’t promise the earth and a champions league place in ten years. It appears measured and in keeping with how the football club has been run for years.
I’m also firmly of the belief that any of the former shareholders would not sell their shares to someone who would harm the club, while people may not step back in the ground for a good while, those people are still lifelong supporters and have the clubs best interests at heart. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 15:24]
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| Share sale on 15:17 - Jun 4 with 2030 views | SaxonDale |
Not very clued-up on the financial side of things so will leave that to the many who know more than me on here. Footballing-wise a few questions about his proposals (taken from Fitzo's article):
Altman said that after visits to the club's facilities and meetings with the board, his group has proposed an initial investment, principally for these purposes:
- replacement of the pitch at the Crown Oil Arena. Didn't the club already state we had the money for this? Wasn't this what we took the loan for?
- a full-time sporting director. Who will this be and how much power will they have? Presuming Altman is still based in New York with a young family (as per an article from last year) then will this sporting director be 'his man'? If that is the case I wonder what the hierarchy will be in terms of approving/recommending signings. Is this term what prevented Hilly/ Dunphy sanctioning the investment before?
- funds to bolster the squad. Sounds great on paper but will this be strictly to attract players that have been identified by Altman's system? |  | | |
| Share sale on 15:17 - Jun 4 with 2028 views | oddjob007 |
| Share sale on 15:06 - Jun 4 by AtThePeake |
Some level of relatively detailed data certainly does exist for players down to at least the third tier of non-league football. For Brentford, it appears to have worked well scouting abroad, particularly in France and Denmark. I think quite a few other teams are doing something similar, but with a little less structure and a little more instinct involved. |
Feels to me like we are being used as a marketing tool for this guy's software, a case study if you will to flog it all over the world. Therefore he will want it to be successful.
As long as we invest his money wisely and in a sustainable way and there are enough safeguards in place to stop any hostile take overs or power shifts away from the true Dale fans in the board room - I can't see a problem with it. | | | |
| Share sale on 15:24 - Jun 4 with 1960 views | Reedy |
| Share sale on 15:20 - Jun 4 by Sandyman |
Please insert "not" between would and sell Mr R  |
Is that better sir? | |
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| Share sale on 15:26 - Jun 4 with 1954 views | 442Dale |
Thoughts:
Where has this statement been released officially by those involved?
Appreciate the efforts of those involved in getting it out to supporters, but if those efforts hadn’t been made would we be any wiser now to what their plans are? | |
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