| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? 21:37 - Jul 30 with 20166 views | DejR_vu |
There's been some debate on other threads about LF.
Les was appointed DoF in Feb 2015. We were relegated, bottom. Burnley and Hull were relegated with us.
We left behind the likes of Aston Villa and Newcastle, who have been relegated since but are back in the Premier League. There were Stoke and West Brom who, although now in the Championship, stayed in the Premier League for a few more seasons before getting relegated.
Sunderland survived that year.
Leicester had been promoted with us the previous season.
Crystal Palace had survived their first season.
In the Championship that season were Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich, Middlesbrough, Brentford, Wolves, Cardiff, Forest, Leeds, Fulham.
Sheff Utd were in league One.
Clubs have been relegated with big wage bills, but promoted since. Clubs have traded their way to the Premier League. Clubs have produced academy players they've sold for big money.
We've wasted parachute money, we've sold one player for big money, and had smaller wins with a couple more. We've let Manning, and BOS slip through our fingers for nothing. Our academy hasn't produced a player who's been sold for money under LF's watch.
The best striker we've had is a bloke we borrowed twice who had a two month purple patch.
Looking at that list, Sunderland and Hull have done worse than us.
Burnley, Newcastle, Leicester, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich, Brentford, Wolves, Fulham and Sheff Utd have all done significantly better. I think you can add Cardiff, West Brom and Stoke to that list. Villa, Leeds and Forest are all in the Premier League now.
Different clubs with different ways of doing things, but all more successful than us, even though we had the advantage of Premier League money / parachute money over many of them back then.
How can anyone claim LF is doing a good job? I'm genuinely interested. I can't fathom it.
[Post edited 30 Jul 2022 21:45]
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 09:24 - Jul 31 with 2892 views | PunteR |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 08:49 - Jul 31 by Hastings_Hoops |
…ask Lee Hoos… He’s the accountant 😉…(think he’s a lawyer by training?) |
He's too busy tightening our purse strings...  |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 09:42 - Jul 31 with 2842 views | enfieldargh |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 22:51 - Jul 30 by DejR_vu |
I’ve listed them all in the opening post. Read that. CWS picked out Brentford and Bournemouth so if you want to pick a couple go with those |
Bournemouth had millions of Russian money pumped into them so were able to shop at Waitrose instead of Tescos. They also fell foul of FFP but some skullduggery got them round it. |  |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 09:44 - Jul 31 with 2841 views | Rangersw12 |
We all know this thread wouldn't of existed if Armstrong had stuck that chance away | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:35 - Jul 31 with 2761 views | derbyhoop |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 22:51 - Jul 30 by DejR_vu |
I’ve listed them all in the opening post. Read that. CWS picked out Brentford and Bournemouth so if you want to pick a couple go with those |
How much questionable finance went into Bournemouth to get them into Pl?
Last season they still had parachute payments and we all know how much
that distorts the competition.
Brentford, I'll give you. They were one of the 1st below PL level to make use of analytics. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:57 - Jul 31 with 2725 views | PunteR |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 09:44 - Jul 31 by Rangersw12 |
We all know this thread wouldn't of existed if Armstrong had stuck that chance away |
It would have popped up after any first defeat . Les Ferdinand is getting more and more scrutiny every passing season. Its very much on peoples mind.
The knives are clearly out.
He's done lots of good but there are genuine questions to be asked if this season falls flat with no apparent improvement.
One game in is obviously too early to judge. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:10 - Jul 31 with 2685 views | Welsh_Ranger |
Just to wade in,
I understand what the OP is posting about and get some of the criticism leveled at LF but as fans we do not know what goes on behind closed doors and I think the club is in relatively a healthier place now than it was say 5 years ago. But we could be doing better i guess but I'd also suggest its not for a lack of effort.
Football economics has changed greatly over the years and that guy on Twitter explains most things very well and Clive has done many great articles painstakingly trawling through the complexities - shit stadium, no revenue generated, high costs, London blah blah blah
For every club you have mentioned their is an example of another basket case club that is languishing in Div1 like Ipswich, Weds, Pompey, Derby and many more clubs that are historically bigger than us. Nobody has a divine right to be successful but i believe the building blocks are being put in place that will hopefully lead to future success. | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:11 - Jul 31 with 2681 views | Northolt_Rs |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:57 - Jul 31 by PunteR |
It would have popped up after any first defeat . Les Ferdinand is getting more and more scrutiny every passing season. Its very much on peoples mind.
The knives are clearly out.
He's done lots of good but there are genuine questions to be asked if this season falls flat with no apparent improvement.
One game in is obviously too early to judge. |
Plus it was the nature of the loss not just the result. Nothings changed from the dross we were served up for the second half of last season…..THAT’S the worry. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:16 - Jul 31 with 2664 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:11 - Jul 31 by Northolt_Rs |
Plus it was the nature of the loss not just the result. Nothings changed from the dross we were served up for the second half of last season…..THAT’S the worry. |
I get it but i saw signs of change, MB is at pains to mention that he's had a limited amount of training sessions to bed in a new system etc. I think/hope it will improve as he gets those new players involved in the match day team and more sessions, I think it will take a little bit of time for it all to show fruit. | | | |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:16 - Jul 31 with 2662 views | enfieldargh |
Les is the guest on the W12 podcast and explains some of his day to day dutys | |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:33 - Jul 31 with 2635 views | NorthantsHoop |
Club is moving in the right direction in my opinion. Quite happy to have Les Ferdinand as our Director of Football. We cannot repeat the mistakes of the Hughes and Redknapp years in trying to throw money at it and hope it sticks to maintain a Premier league slot.
We just have to live within our means, the big plus for me is the new Heston Training Centre, better facilities and structure will help to attract younger talent with a great opportunity to hopefully break into the first team and then potential is realised. In my mind we are historically a solid 2nd tier football club and that is paramount to maintain within our means. If promotion comes along great, but it must be at a price we can afford. [Post edited 31 Jul 2022 11:35]
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 12:35 - Jul 31 with 2520 views | digswellhoop |
dont know but what a scammer😠| | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 13:39 - Jul 31 with 2465 views | JamesB1979 |
I know the post isn’t against the new manager but the timing of it, does give that impression. I not really in a position to comment as I’m biased. I don’t believe our club with our income and resources can afford the luxury of a DoF. No matter how good they are. We should be saving all costs we can to ensure we stay on right side of ffp and then if we have surplus use it for better players. The decisions made by DoF should be shifted to CEO, Manager, head scout, Ramsey and Chairman. Just because we messed up in the past, it just means we need to make better decisions in line with the new philosophy to be sustainable. | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 14:05 - Jul 31 with 2412 views | Toast_R |
Our wage bill when we came down in 2015 was catastrophic and so was the EFL legal case hanging over the club. That's where we were stumped. Yes there have been mistakes along the way, the Steve McLaren season was a huge one. But the club has a crap stadium which loses money and had crap training facilities. Its been a huge mess, I think Les and Lee Hoos have done well to keep the club away from league one and to keep the expectations high to be honest. We are still punching above our weight when you consider fan base and FFP. [Post edited 31 Jul 2022 14:07]
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 14:06 - Jul 31 with 2404 views | ParkRoyalR |
Is our DoF responsible for over-seeing the scheduling of our pre-season friendlies?
Questions need to be asked of whoever is, as our only decent friendly (against Palace) happened I believe as their supposed friendly that day (versus Charlton) was cancelled, so that slot came free and again, fortunately, with so many of their high profile players not vaxxed and unable to travel to Austrailia, we did'nt end up playing against their u23's.
I just hope Beale has'nt been appointed as he'll work for a season or two within our current structure without being overly questioning of our set-up and academy, in the way maybe Warburton was. | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 14:58 - Jul 31 with 2306 views | R_from_afar |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 23:13 - Jul 30 by paulparker |
Our prized asset is Willock and he is coming to the end of his contract pretty soon
Other than that I’m struggling to name a player who is going to attract a big transfer fee
Clive called it a couple of months ago that if we get off to a poor start then questions will be asked of Les and rightly so
Yes the recruitment was shocking before Les came in but the reason we bought in a DOF was to stop the madness and start selling players on for big money so we could survive and prosper
The problem is what funds we have had we have squandered on players who have not been good enough or have been allowed to run down contracts
Respected pros Ned & Clint hill have made no secret of the failings of our DOF are they wrong ?
I want it to succeed but it’s nearly 8 years and we are still no better off than we he took the role on |
"Other than that I’m struggling to name a player who is going to attract a big transfer fee"
Surely we'd get quite a lot for Chair and Dieng? I don't mean as a twin pack 
Can people please remember the house rules:
- Something goes right (if only): It's down to the manager and the players
- Something goes wrong: Blame Tony, Les, Hoos, Ruben.
NB: I am being ironic.
One game in and the knives are out already.... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 17:50 - Jul 31 with 2201 views | slmrstid |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 08:17 - Jul 31 by PunteR |
How does £600 million debt just get written off?
And where is that £600 million now.?
Is most of that tax paid, VAT on player ? How does it work? |
What it means is over his time owning the club, Khan has lent Fulham £600m which they've then spunked up the wall on various footballing misdemeanours (ie players and wages largely!)
So Fulhams accounts showed Mr Khan was owed £600m by them.
By writing the £600m off, in the accounts it ends up one of two ways depending how they did it (Konk might know, I dont look at Fulham's accounts to find out!)
1. They do what our owners have been doing - convert the debt to capital. What this means is that Fulham no longer owes Khan £600m, but Khan has £600m extra share capital in the club - he may still be able to recoup this at a future point when selling the club.
2. They do what our owners tried to do to get around their FFP failings back in 2014/15 or whenever it happened - where the £600m is treated as no longer a debt, but effectively a "gift" to the club and added to income. However, as we showed this does not work to try and get around FFP.
Thats it as simply as I can explain it - there's almost certainly other tax advantages around doing it as well but that starts to get a bit too complex for the purposes of the question! |  | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 19:25 - Jul 31 with 2098 views | digswellhoop |
ethics hes a great player not a director of football | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 07:59 - Aug 1 with 1898 views | PunteR |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 17:50 - Jul 31 by slmrstid |
What it means is over his time owning the club, Khan has lent Fulham £600m which they've then spunked up the wall on various footballing misdemeanours (ie players and wages largely!)
So Fulhams accounts showed Mr Khan was owed £600m by them.
By writing the £600m off, in the accounts it ends up one of two ways depending how they did it (Konk might know, I dont look at Fulham's accounts to find out!)
1. They do what our owners have been doing - convert the debt to capital. What this means is that Fulham no longer owes Khan £600m, but Khan has £600m extra share capital in the club - he may still be able to recoup this at a future point when selling the club.
2. They do what our owners tried to do to get around their FFP failings back in 2014/15 or whenever it happened - where the £600m is treated as no longer a debt, but effectively a "gift" to the club and added to income. However, as we showed this does not work to try and get around FFP.
Thats it as simply as I can explain it - there's almost certainly other tax advantages around doing it as well but that starts to get a bit too complex for the purposes of the question! |
Thanks mate.
Yeh there's still a few areas I can't quite get my head around. But accounts has never been my strong point. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:32 - Aug 1 with 1772 views | stanistheman |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:35 - Jul 31 by derbyhoop |
How much questionable finance went into Bournemouth to get them into Pl?
Last season they still had parachute payments and we all know how much
that distorts the competition.
Brentford, I'll give you. They were one of the 1st below PL level to make use of analytics. |
We had parachute money as well when we got relegated in 2015. That wasn't used to get us back up, instead, Ferdinand gambled and appointed Ramsey as manager and then on JFH instead of Warnock or Jokanovic (who took the job at Fulham instead and won promotion).
I would also add that Ferdinand was originally brought in as an advisor (a DOF in al but name) in October 2014 and was instrumental in advising not to spend any money in the January window that eventually saw Redknapp leave and Ramsey appointed as caretaker. And we all know how brilliantly those decisions went.
Yes, this post should have topic could have been created in pre season or later on in say September when the current transfer window ends and we have played games or so. However, the question about Ferdinand has been raised a number of times over the years since he got the job without it ever being advertised or other options interviewed.
It really was an appointment of appeasement given his status amongst QPR fans.
Is he the best person for the role now is more like the question to be asked.
Yes, we have a new training ground and a few players that can be sold for a reasonable amount (as long as their contracts are not allowed to run down and some of them are getting a bit close to that now so their value will be dropping).
Do I want a change now? No, I will want to wait and see how this season goes, but at some point I think it will be time to end his contract and if we need a DoF advertise the role and try and get a better qualified person. | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:40 - Aug 1 with 1751 views | LazyFan |
If Evil Les stops people like candle face Rednapp from raping our club, then that means he's done his job as know that's a massive risk in this Business. |  |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:53 - Aug 1 with 1727 views | NW5Hoop |
I'd say that while he has had the job title for seven and a half years, he hasn't been able to actually do the job for anything like that long. For the first half of that it was clearly a constant battle with Fernandes about the direction of the club, with Fernandes wanting people like McClaren to manage the club, and agreeing to their demands to bring in any old junk to bulk up the squad. When he did get his way, with Ramsey, for example, it was in the direst circumstances and there's not a lot anyone could have done in that situation. Only in the last three years or so has Ferdinand clearly had his hand on the wheel, and things have got better since then. I'm not suggesting he's done everything right or made no mistakes. But we were a basket case club when he came in; we're not now.
Also, comparisons with other clubs are pointless. Every club has its own unique circumstances. You can borrow ideas and behaviours from them, but you can't just look at another club and say: Why can't we be like that? Because we're not like that. Simple as that. | | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:03 - Aug 1 with 1696 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
The anti Les thing perplexes me.
It’s as if the preceding 5 years never happened. An overestimation of our historic and immediate potential I think.
A raft of QPR built or honed youngsters, new training ground, and net transfer income. Mistakes made obviously, but not many compared to similar clubs around us. |  | | |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:47 - Aug 1 with 1606 views | kensalriser |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 10:32 - Aug 1 by stanistheman |
We had parachute money as well when we got relegated in 2015. That wasn't used to get us back up, instead, Ferdinand gambled and appointed Ramsey as manager and then on JFH instead of Warnock or Jokanovic (who took the job at Fulham instead and won promotion).
I would also add that Ferdinand was originally brought in as an advisor (a DOF in al but name) in October 2014 and was instrumental in advising not to spend any money in the January window that eventually saw Redknapp leave and Ramsey appointed as caretaker. And we all know how brilliantly those decisions went.
Yes, this post should have topic could have been created in pre season or later on in say September when the current transfer window ends and we have played games or so. However, the question about Ferdinand has been raised a number of times over the years since he got the job without it ever being advertised or other options interviewed.
It really was an appointment of appeasement given his status amongst QPR fans.
Is he the best person for the role now is more like the question to be asked.
Yes, we have a new training ground and a few players that can be sold for a reasonable amount (as long as their contracts are not allowed to run down and some of them are getting a bit close to that now so their value will be dropping).
Do I want a change now? No, I will want to wait and see how this season goes, but at some point I think it will be time to end his contract and if we need a DoF advertise the role and try and get a better qualified person. |
We were totally reamed by FFP yet even after all that you think we should have spent MORE money? [Post edited 1 Aug 2022 15:58]
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:55 - Aug 1 with 1585 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:03 - Aug 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The anti Les thing perplexes me.
It’s as if the preceding 5 years never happened. An overestimation of our historic and immediate potential I think.
A raft of QPR built or honed youngsters, new training ground, and net transfer income. Mistakes made obviously, but not many compared to similar clubs around us. |
His other legacy is the culture of diversity he’s helped to install at the club. Should be celebrated I think. |  |
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| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 12:03 - Aug 1 with 1560 views | ParkRoyalR |
| How does Les Ferdinand get away with it? on 11:03 - Aug 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The anti Les thing perplexes me.
It’s as if the preceding 5 years never happened. An overestimation of our historic and immediate potential I think.
A raft of QPR built or honed youngsters, new training ground, and net transfer income. Mistakes made obviously, but not many compared to similar clubs around us. |
I like Les as a bloke but see him more as a PR type figure for the club rather than a hands-on Director of Football.
Could be wrong, but Michael Beale's availability and appointment seemed to fortunately cover up a lack of succession planning and our pre-season preparation again showed a lack of forward planning.
Net transfer income may again be a fortunate one-off (Eze) rather than any evidence of a production line (yet to see a raft of QPR honed youngsters), the new training ground has been a bit of fiasco (not helped by being naively abrasive towards H&F - we're not in Malaysia or the US and someone should have told our owners and Lee Hoos to communicate differently with H&F) and bringing in Austin and Gray was a huge risk financially when Les must have known one was of dubious character (altho full credit to someone, maybe Les, for recognising this, hence the appearance related get-out clause).
I am not anti-Les, but other than cutting costs (which is a shared responsibility and something anyone can do) I am yet to see a cohesive plan moving our club forward. Les is putting alot of faith in Chris Ramsey and his team and they need to start delivering. | | | |
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