| Energy bills 23:01 - Aug 24 with 47372 views | Hayesender |
Watching the news earlier, they were talking about the impact these energy bill rises will have on small businesses.
It got me thinking (dangerous I know) about the potential effect it could have on our club, and other clubs of similar and smaller size?
Not only the day to day running costs and matchday costs, but also the affect its gonna have on attendances.
Obviously when it comes down to heating, eating, mortgage, rent etc, days out with mates and family watching football, or any sporting event, are gonna have to take a back seat for many people.
Unless the government (lol) take action now, its gonna be a bleak winter for many people and businesses, and I fear for people's mental well being |  |
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| Energy bills on 10:24 - Aug 26 with 2453 views | PunteR |
| Energy bills on 09:45 - Aug 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t fully support this as a strategy, especially for the most skint of us and those on probation but at least some fckers are trying to do something:
https://dontpay.uk/ |
Not sure that's a great idea.
Hasn't Martin Lewis addressed this and is probably in the process of drafting another template for a letter to write to your provider to review the bill as it isn't accurate .. or something along those lines.
Best thing to do ,like with every debt is pay what you can afford. Nothing less nothing more. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Energy bills on 10:39 - Aug 26 with 2388 views | traininvain |
| Energy bills on 09:14 - Aug 26 by StreathamRanger |
Isn't it worse for businesses as there's no price cap for them? I'm sure I heard that somewhere. |
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/25/big-energy-firms-refuse-to-supp
‘Big energy firms are refusing to supply small businesses out of concern they could go bust, while some are demanding £10,000 upfront, business owners and industry experts have told the Guardian.’
This is the reality for many businesses. Without government support, it will be more damaging than Covid. |  | | |
| Energy bills on 10:40 - Aug 26 with 2383 views | Northernr |
Will there be any pubs left at the end of this? |  | | |
| Energy bills on 10:46 - Aug 26 with 2353 views | EastR |
| Energy bills on 10:40 - Aug 26 by Northernr |
Will there be any pubs left at the end of this? |
if there are, who'll be able to afford to go to them? |  |
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| Energy bills on 10:48 - Aug 26 with 2347 views | Northernr |
| Energy bills on 10:46 - Aug 26 by EastR |
if there are, who'll be able to afford to go to them? |
Yup. | | | |
| Energy bills on 10:52 - Aug 26 with 2306 views | robith |
| Energy bills on 10:40 - Aug 26 by Northernr |
Will there be any pubs left at the end of this? |
Guardian reported yesterday an estimate by a coalition of smaller brewers that 70% of the UK's pubs will close this winter |  | | |
| Energy bills on 10:53 - Aug 26 with 2302 views | RangersDave |
| Energy bills on 10:40 - Aug 26 by Northernr |
Will there be any pubs left at the end of this? |
sod the pubs, will there be anyone left alive and safe at the end of this? |  |
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| Energy bills on 11:10 - Aug 26 with 2265 views | Snipper |
They say average energy bills will rise in January to just over £5300 per year.
Then rise again in April to just over £6600 per year.
Many will die this winter. |  | | |
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| Energy bills on 11:45 - Aug 26 with 2138 views | traininvain |
| Energy bills on 10:52 - Aug 26 by robith |
Guardian reported yesterday an estimate by a coalition of smaller brewers that 70% of the UK's pubs will close this winter |
Sounds about right. The average tenanted pub rent is £30k/£40k pa. Average energy bills increasing from £10k pa to £50k/£60k pa. That’ll sink the majority of tenants.
And that’s before we consider labour shortages and other cost increases.
Pub co’s and brewers will struggle to relet the pubs that go bust so I suspect they’ll look to sell them. Many will be lost forever to developers. | | | |
| Energy bills on 11:45 - Aug 26 with 2137 views | Mick_S |
| Energy bills on 09:14 - Aug 26 by StreathamRanger |
Isn't it worse for businesses as there's no price cap for them? I'm sure I heard that somewhere. |
My local sells most things shop(Londis) are being asked for £27,000 for their gas/electric. Utterly unsustainable. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Energy bills on 11:50 - Aug 26 with 2108 views | Mick_S |
| Energy bills on 10:24 - Aug 26 by PunteR |
Not sure that's a great idea.
Hasn't Martin Lewis addressed this and is probably in the process of drafting another template for a letter to write to your provider to review the bill as it isn't accurate .. or something along those lines.
Best thing to do ,like with every debt is pay what you can afford. Nothing less nothing more. |
Spot on Punt. Our company wanted around £350 a month (£130 prior to that).
I politely said bollocks, this is what I’m prepared to pay, take it or leave it, which worked for us.
We are currently in plus credit with the greedy bstards. | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Energy bills on 11:53 - Aug 26 with 2098 views | Northernr |
Yeh I get that mate. Not looking good at all. | | | |
| Energy bills on 11:57 - Aug 26 with 2077 views | traininvain |
| Energy bills on 10:40 - Aug 26 by Northernr |
Will there be any pubs left at the end of this? |
The ones who will be hit hardest are the smaller tenants (already on the edge after Covid) and probably the pub companies with big tenanted estates as they rely on the rental income which could quickly dry up.
The likes of Young’s and Fullers should be ok as they’re majority freehold owned and managed (I.e. not tenanted) so less reliant on tenants paying rent.
Maybe people will go to the pub to avoid using energy and heating at home. Good place to stay warm etc. Apparently this happened in the 70’s (bit before my time!). I can actually see Wetherspoons doing well. | | | |
| Energy bills on 11:58 - Aug 26 with 2065 views | toboboly |
| Energy bills on 10:53 - Aug 26 by RangersDave |
sod the pubs, will there be anyone left alive and safe at the end of this? |
I prefer pubs to people |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Energy bills on 12:06 - Aug 26 with 2015 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Energy bills on 09:41 - Aug 26 by DWQPR |
The government will have no choice but to make a huge intervention. Businesses are not protected by price caps so unless there is intervention then we will see many businesses go to the wall, unemployment increasing thus a reduction in tax revenue and an increase in benefit spending. But equally we all have to be sensible. Turn off lights when not needed, make sure low energy bulbs where possible are used, turn off TV’s when not being watched. Does Alexa need to stay on standby? reduce thermostats by a couple of degrees and wear a jumper, our predecessors didn’t have the luxury of central heating or double glazing as we do, stories of scrapping the ice from the inside of windows is something I’m sure we have all heard. Showers are much cheaper than baths, turn the shower off whilst washing yourself, and as far as food is concerned, ready meals and microwaves aren’t the answer, any saving is more than offset by the cost of ready meals, which themselves are not very healthy and full of salt. Batch cook, then all you need to do is warm up the meal that you have made. Get fresh produce, much cheaper, especially from a market, and learn to cook. And even be more sociable with friends and neighbours, spend evenings, share cooking, turn down your heating whilst out when visiting and vice versa. Most of us adapted during the pandemic and we can do so again. And if you have 10 beers out each week, then have eight beers instead, that would save around £50 per month. And even going to bed half an early each night will have an effect. |
There isn't going to be a huge intervention. This is all playing out as planned. Do people really still not see that?
If the current situation is unacceptable then people should be out on the streets demanding a withdrawal of all financial and military support for Ukraine, withdrawal of all Russian sanctions, etc, etc as an immediate starter for ten (which won't make any difference anyway because it's all a smokescreen for the agenda which started in February 2020 and which is playing out very nicely indeed thank you).
On a related note, there are only 2 reasons for the 'intervention' in the 'war' in Ukraine: i) to give the appearance that it is Russia (not Davos) which is causing all this; and, ii) to give them an excuse to use billions of our tax money to buy weapons from their arms dealer paymasters so that they can donate them to Ukraine, at our cost, for zero benefit to us. Oh yes, not forgetting the US (that good ol' keeper of world peace) is getting the opportunity to again poke a stick at Russia and cause the misery, death and destruction it always causes [Post edited 26 Aug 2022 12:15]
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| Energy bills on 12:25 - Aug 26 with 1915 views | The_Beast1976 |
"Russia just invaded them for spurious reasons so they can fck off". The reasons are far from spurious on this Mr Anderson. Furthermore, why can the UK and US invade wherever they, like but Russia cannot? It seems like the 'rules based' order, which the UK and US are so found of spouting about (and which is the excuse they use for spending our taxes on buying weapons from their arms dealer paymasters), are only relevant if the rules are their own!!
However, I do agree with you that that Russia still should not have invaded Ukraine.
Anyway, good to see you do not instantly dismiss the possibility that all of this is largely planned. I do not see it as a conspiracy, I see it as reality. It's too obvious not to be. The picture is bleak, but what can we do? [Post edited 26 Aug 2022 12:26]
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| Energy bills on 12:41 - Aug 26 with 1858 views | Hayesender |
| Energy bills on 12:06 - Aug 26 by The_Beast1976 |
There isn't going to be a huge intervention. This is all playing out as planned. Do people really still not see that?
If the current situation is unacceptable then people should be out on the streets demanding a withdrawal of all financial and military support for Ukraine, withdrawal of all Russian sanctions, etc, etc as an immediate starter for ten (which won't make any difference anyway because it's all a smokescreen for the agenda which started in February 2020 and which is playing out very nicely indeed thank you).
On a related note, there are only 2 reasons for the 'intervention' in the 'war' in Ukraine: i) to give the appearance that it is Russia (not Davos) which is causing all this; and, ii) to give them an excuse to use billions of our tax money to buy weapons from their arms dealer paymasters so that they can donate them to Ukraine, at our cost, for zero benefit to us. Oh yes, not forgetting the US (that good ol' keeper of world peace) is getting the opportunity to again poke a stick at Russia and cause the misery, death and destruction it always causes [Post edited 26 Aug 2022 12:15]
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All working out as planned for Mr Klaus Schwab.
"You'll own nothing and be happy" | |
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| Energy bills on 12:57 - Aug 26 with 1802 views | The_Beast1976 |
Indeed. They've not even trying to hide it
yet people still think it's a 'conspiracy'  [Post edited 26 Aug 2022 13:05]
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| Energy bills on 14:29 - Aug 26 with 1649 views | R_from_afar |
| Energy bills on 17:20 - Aug 25 by Sakura |
It does make we chuckle when you suggest we can't do fracking as we don't have enough water which is pretty funny when you consider that Texas, California, New Mexico and Alabama manage it
I agree like most if not everyone that renewables are a part of the answer for now and will eventually become much bigger part of the answer in future
There is a lot of people on here who make points that go over really well at a dinner party but actually we will find out this winter and then especially next winter that those nice fluffy Green Party intentions are going to collide smack bang with the reality of physics
We will see how many Megawatt hours we used to produce. How many we need to produce and how many we are consistently able to produce.
A point that will become clearer in its relevance after next years harvest is that the number one input into fertiliser production. To emphasise this remember this in winter 2023!!!!!!!!! Our harvests have not yet felt the force of this impact
Putin did weaponise energy. That's the risk we faced and failed to prepare for by not developing our own fossil fuels in the West sufficiently
Put simply if you stop production of new sources of fossil fuels and don't have a large place for nuclear alongside renewables that is going to result in the starvation of hundreds of millions of people around the world. Winter 23-24 we will begin to see that
We will not starve here. It will be very expensive. But in the UK we will be ok in that sense. In other continents that won't be the case and people will die as a direct consequence of people who hold 'luxury beliefs' such as your own.
Nuclear is needed alongside renewables because you need a reliable base load because renewables are sporadic and unpredictable. Also isn't enough battery storage currently. So I share you hopes and wishes for the importance of renewables in future but we aren't there next so if you remove those inputs from the system as we have then the consequences are coming for us all and beginning to be felt now
As my previous post shows. Trump warned us this was coming due the path we put ourselves on
Another interesting and sad point to add ; nearly 40% of Europe’s so-called renewable energy is obtained by combusting wood & a sizable portion of what’s being burned is derived from clearcutting forests in US.
https://doomberg.substack.com/p/back-to-the-future
Another nutty fact. The US haven't built a new refinery since 1977.
A last point on solar where we face the same risks on energy there. China has total dominance on the polysillicone which is vital part of solar energy production.
The recent years decrease in solar powers production costs wasn't because of technological advancements but because China used cheap dirty coal and effective slave labour to dump polysillicone on the market. Force competition out of business.
It takes a good 5 years and billions of dollars to bring on a plant. So we must know how dangerous it is for the West to get reliant on China and it's polysillicone production as we did with Putin and the Gas.
All these honorable dinner party talking points are colliding with the realities of physics. Suggestions around descending water from a lake and stuff is just sad really. Good luck getting your aluminium smelters going off that stuff :( [Post edited 25 Aug 2022 17:23]
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It is possible to disagree without being unpleasant but then I suspect that at least some of your issues are to do with the type of person you perceive me to be.
That said, I do like dinner parties so let me know whether I should bring red or white.
On fracking and water:
The process needs 4m litres of water per well. Much of the UK is in a drought as we speak plus the NFU has said that the water shortfall in a dry year in the 2020s will be close to the total current agricultural abstraction.
To cover 10% of UK gas we need 2,500-3,000 wells spread over 140-400 sq km using 27-113m tonnes of water, according to the Tyndall Centre.
According to Duke University in the US, "shale gas/oil is exchanging absurd volumes of water for absurd volumes of fossil fuels at a time where using the latter is jeopardizing the availability of the former.” At the same time, fracking “is exchanging precious volumes of water usable for drinking and farming for toxic volumes of wastewater most of which has to be transported and injected underground,” at grave risk to underground sources of drinking water. Finally, “most of what is not transported and injected stays underground, an exchange of H2O for CO2.” Therefore, almost all of what arrives at a well is forever lost to the water cycle.”
I said that I think nuclear will have to play a role but as I also said, you can't backup nuclear with nuclear, it's not responsive enough. According to a paper by Rocky Mountain Institute - the lead author is a physicist so that's good - in the August 2003 Northeast blackout, nine perfectly operating US nuclear units had to shut down. For the first three days after they restarted, their output was below 3% of normal. The paper also states that even reliably operating nuclear plants must shut down for 39 days every 17 months and that 27% of the US' 132 nuclear plants have shut down for a year or more at least once.
Obviously we need a steady supply of electricity, I totally acknowledge that.
Anyone want to guess how many aluminium smelters there are in the UK? Answer below.
Renewables are no more fluffy than fossil fuels and nuclear power sources with their vast subsidies. The government has recently injected £100m into Sizewell C to "maximise investor confidence," for example.
The book "Sustainable Energy - Without the hot air" (the book is free to download) offers five quantified, fossil free energy plans for Britain. In all of them, renewables make a sizable contribution and in two of them, a *single* renewable source makes the greatest contribution. For a third plan, a single renewable source makes the equal highest contribution. The plans give the energy contribution in kWh/d so - disappointingly - it's not very fluffy.
Oh, who's the author, I hear you cry? Well, it's a Cambridge University professor of physics, David Mackay.
* 1, in Lochaber. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Energy bills on 14:48 - Aug 26 with 2838 views | StreathamRanger |
Quite the coincidence that he managed to organise his many holidays so that he could be in Ukraine for their independence day to try and cement his place in history as some kind of modern day Churchill. What a chancer and what a disgrace of a government we've ended up with. | | | |
| Energy bills on 15:06 - Aug 26 with 2773 views | NorthantsHoop |
The financial crash in 2008 was the catalyst for a lot of what is coming to pass, attitude to debt, artificially low interest rates, quantative easing and failure to invest in new energy supplies quickly and strategically enough to negate the need for fossil fuels. Big energy companies and foreign state controlled suppliers are holding the World to ransom coming out of the pandemic, Ukrainian conflict etc. and keeping cost high of fossil fuels while they can until they then control renewable energy market and we all show relief that prices will eventually fall, but never to the time when it was what we regarded as cheap. Asleep at the wheel our governments have been for years, trouble is in 2008 drastic action was taken by the Labour government to put some banks in public ownership to stave off a total collapse, this goes against the grain for the Tories and they are struggling to rally against their free market principles. We are in a right old mess and we don't own anything in this country anymore reliant on others including our energy. |  | | |
| Energy bills on 15:29 - Aug 26 with 2722 views | R_from_afar |
"I don't believe that green energy could have solved all this"
It would've been very difficult for green energy to avert all the problems* but if we had committed to it more, for example, making solar panels and even a battery, mandatory on all new buildings then it would certainly have helped.
Having a big push to improve insulation could have made a huge difference but that sort of thing is not fashionable, perhaps because it's not as glamorous and media friendly as a big, new shiny power station or windfarm.
I wish I had solar panels which produced electricity, mine only provide hot water, but I was able to switch the gas entirely last month and let the sun heat the entire hot water tank. I hope this doesn't sound smug, by the way, I am just trying to illustrate the practical benefits of this kit.
I'll hold my hands up and admit that the system can't heat the whole tank all year round but it can for the summer and will even make a contribution in the winter.
* If you can be bothered, see my earlier post on this thread, it mentions the fact that credible and detailed plans do exist for getting all of Britain's energy from sources other than fossil fuels.
Stafford University and Delaware University have both produced plans for doing this for the entire world. | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Energy bills on 16:08 - Aug 26 with 2647 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Energy bills on 10:24 - Aug 26 by PunteR |
Not sure that's a great idea.
Hasn't Martin Lewis addressed this and is probably in the process of drafting another template for a letter to write to your provider to review the bill as it isn't accurate .. or something along those lines.
Best thing to do ,like with every debt is pay what you can afford. Nothing less nothing more. |
Yeah, like I say I don’t fully agree with it but until some better idea comes along let’s not shit on the messengers. |  | | |
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