| Senedd Costs 07:38 - Sep 27 with 9719 views | YrAlarch |
Apparently it's going to cost us an extra £1.2 million to prepare the Senedd for the increased number of members.
Value for money? |  | | |  |
| Senedd Costs on 11:39 - Sep 29 with 1832 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd Costs on 07:06 - Sep 29 by Scotia |
It's the biggest and most open consultation you can get.
It was also in Plaid's manifesto.
If we had further consultations and referenda on every thing a government put in it's manifesto nothing would get done.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-56676066
The points weren't even hidden, they were on the BBC key points article. [Post edited 29 Sep 7:13]
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And again, how many people read that manifesto? Most labour voters would already know which way they were going to vote regardless of manifesto.
I'm not talking about consuktation and referenda on everything in a manifesto but some things are so big they need to be put to the people.
If a ruling government in many other countries had done this, which blatantly favours the ruling government, we'd be calling it authoritarian, fascistic even.
That I will no longer be able to vote for the person to represent me, just the party, it is very wrong.
Besides, they did consult on the 20mph but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that?
Just like other consultations, they keep the results hidden, come out with some blather and then as they please. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 11:49 - Sep 29 with 1791 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd Costs on 10:02 - Sep 29 by Kilkennyjack |
UK Tory government recently reduced the MPs from Wales from 40 to 32.
Reducing our welsh voice in Westminster, although it was already small.
Not sure that i remember voting for that one…. |
There's a massive difference though, that was done to make constituencies roughly the same size.
It didn't reduce our voice in any way, it made the disparity more even because going by the numbers, Wales had more MP's per head than England. I know you'll struggle to understand that though.
It also had the effect of reducing the costs of Westminster politics. Don't you find it absurd, in a country where the elected government constantly moans they don't have enough money that they should be spending millions more on something such as increasing their number?
It used to be a bit of a mantra of mine, the more politicians we allow to exist, the worse things get. Having more numbers in the Senedd isn't going to improve anything and in 10 years you will be welcome to argue the point. But in the meantime millions will be taken away from essential services who are already short of money. Pure genius that is. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 12:07 - Sep 29 with 1785 views | Dr_Winston |
The State of California, with nearly 40m people and a GDP of $3.9tn manages to get by with 120 elected representatives between its upper and lower house State legislature.
The idea that Wales, with a population less than a tenth of the size and a GDP that isn't even that close a comparison needs 96 of them is a political grift so obvious and disgusting that it's no real shock to see people like Kilks thinking that it's a great idea.
It'll cost taxpayers more, and be considerably less democratic. In reality with as many local authorities as we have in Wales we could halve the numbers of trough gobblers in Cardiff Bay and most people wouldn't even notice. [Post edited 29 Sep 12:08]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Senedd Costs on 13:45 - Sep 29 with 1744 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Senedd Costs on 11:49 - Sep 29 by SullutaCreturned |
There's a massive difference though, that was done to make constituencies roughly the same size.
It didn't reduce our voice in any way, it made the disparity more even because going by the numbers, Wales had more MP's per head than England. I know you'll struggle to understand that though.
It also had the effect of reducing the costs of Westminster politics. Don't you find it absurd, in a country where the elected government constantly moans they don't have enough money that they should be spending millions more on something such as increasing their number?
It used to be a bit of a mantra of mine, the more politicians we allow to exist, the worse things get. Having more numbers in the Senedd isn't going to improve anything and in 10 years you will be welcome to argue the point. But in the meantime millions will be taken away from essential services who are already short of money. Pure genius that is. |
Ok so you think that a uk Tory govt reducing the number of welsh mp’s from the long standing 40 to just 32 does ‘not reduce our voice in any way’.
I rest my case.
I think you might find it reduced our voice by about, say, 8 MP’s …
The Tory party is always rejected in Wales … so reducing our welsh voice was quite deliberate. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Senedd Costs on 17:46 - Sep 30 with 1649 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd Costs on 13:45 - Sep 29 by Kilkennyjack |
Ok so you think that a uk Tory govt reducing the number of welsh mp’s from the long standing 40 to just 32 does ‘not reduce our voice in any way’.
I rest my case.
I think you might find it reduced our voice by about, say, 8 MP’s …
The Tory party is always rejected in Wales … so reducing our welsh voice was quite deliberate. |
If they had only reduced Welsh MP's then you'd have a case. They have cut MP's from all over the UK, Wales lost 8 out of 50 so we lost 16%
Besides which, with a devolved government the Senedd should be our voice in Westminster, if they are not then what is their point? | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 18:09 - Sep 30 with 1612 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Senedd Costs on 13:45 - Sep 29 by Kilkennyjack |
Ok so you think that a uk Tory govt reducing the number of welsh mp’s from the long standing 40 to just 32 does ‘not reduce our voice in any way’.
I rest my case.
I think you might find it reduced our voice by about, say, 8 MP’s …
The Tory party is always rejected in Wales … so reducing our welsh voice was quite deliberate. |
We could have a hundred MP’s or we could have 1. It matters not. “Our Voice” will still be at the same decibel level, zero. If anybody actually still believes that any sort of tangible change can be achieved through the ballot box in 2024 they are utterly deluded. |  |
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| Senedd Costs on 21:32 - Sep 30 with 1574 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd Costs on 18:09 - Sep 30 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
We could have a hundred MP’s or we could have 1. It matters not. “Our Voice” will still be at the same decibel level, zero. If anybody actually still believes that any sort of tangible change can be achieved through the ballot box in 2024 they are utterly deluded. |
The only change is the names of the people shafting us. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 08:05 - Oct 1 with 1530 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Senedd Costs on 17:46 - Sep 30 by SullutaCreturned |
If they had only reduced Welsh MP's then you'd have a case. They have cut MP's from all over the UK, Wales lost 8 out of 50 so we lost 16%
Besides which, with a devolved government the Senedd should be our voice in Westminster, if they are not then what is their point? |
No - the welsh voice has factually been reduced.
Whether you believe its fair is another aspect.
Many believe if wales was tory voting then the uk govt that had both covid and brexit to (badly) manage would not have implemented these changes.
It was a feck you moment dressed up for the unsuspecting.
I agree that with you that a better logic is to reflect that as we have the senedd then less Westmonster mp’s makes sense.
MPs are more expensive so the savings covers about a third of the cost of the extra senedd members.
That Liz Truss cost the uk £30 billion in one mini-budget. So there is that…. | |
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| Senedd Costs on 20:51 - Oct 1 with 1408 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd Costs on 08:05 - Oct 1 by Kilkennyjack |
No - the welsh voice has factually been reduced.
Whether you believe its fair is another aspect.
Many believe if wales was tory voting then the uk govt that had both covid and brexit to (badly) manage would not have implemented these changes.
It was a feck you moment dressed up for the unsuspecting.
I agree that with you that a better logic is to reflect that as we have the senedd then less Westmonster mp’s makes sense.
MPs are more expensive so the savings covers about a third of the cost of the extra senedd members.
That Liz Truss cost the uk £30 billion in one mini-budget. So there is that…. |
For a reduced voice you'd had to believe our MP's actually spoke up for us, not much evidence for that.
What we have niw is a fair number of MP's because it's down by comstituency population. It means it is theoretically fairer than before when we were actually over represented in London.
Some people thought these changes favoured the tories, the last election blew that away. When are so maaively inept, corrupt and useless not even gerrymandering can save you.
Reducing the MP's pales by comparison to Labours changes to our system in Wales mind. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 17:35 - Oct 7 with 1263 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd Costs on 08:05 - Oct 1 by Kilkennyjack |
No - the welsh voice has factually been reduced.
Whether you believe its fair is another aspect.
Many believe if wales was tory voting then the uk govt that had both covid and brexit to (badly) manage would not have implemented these changes.
It was a feck you moment dressed up for the unsuspecting.
I agree that with you that a better logic is to reflect that as we have the senedd then less Westmonster mp’s makes sense.
MPs are more expensive so the savings covers about a third of the cost of the extra senedd members.
That Liz Truss cost the uk £30 billion in one mini-budget. So there is that…. |
Only she did not. That would have been the cost of her tax cuts and extra spending none of which actually happened
There never was any evidence presented as to actual cost . The £30 billion figure was made up by a SNP MP which gullible fools still think was a fact. | |
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| Senedd Costs on 21:08 - Oct 7 with 1146 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Senedd Costs on 17:35 - Oct 7 by felixstowe_jack |
Only she did not. That would have been the cost of her tax cuts and extra spending none of which actually happened
There never was any evidence presented as to actual cost . The £30 billion figure was made up by a SNP MP which gullible fools still think was a fact. |
A think tank actually. Perhaps losses were related to falls in the markets and increased interest rates on government borrowing. Real figures not made up. An independent think tank not the SNP who might have quoted them.
(The Resolution Foundation calculates that the mini-budget cost the UK Treasury £30bn, the Truss government caused roughly that amount of the fiscal hole which the Treasury claims is £60bn) [Post edited 7 Oct 21:09]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Senedd Costs on 00:54 - Oct 8 with 1101 views | Robbie |
There are enough freeloaders in Westminster of all Parties to tolerate for now .
WAG want more hangers on and expenses paid gravy train passengers to carry on their supposed target to put Wales first , Drakeford soon put an end to that flying pig dream .
At least Kinnock and co were bombed out of MEP status , why was he there there doing a role with zero positive impact for Wales going forward , financially made for life I bet .
Politicians , got to love them . | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 09:54 - Oct 8 with 1063 views | max936 |
| Senedd Costs on 00:54 - Oct 8 by Robbie |
There are enough freeloaders in Westminster of all Parties to tolerate for now .
WAG want more hangers on and expenses paid gravy train passengers to carry on their supposed target to put Wales first , Drakeford soon put an end to that flying pig dream .
At least Kinnock and co were bombed out of MEP status , why was he there there doing a role with zero positive impact for Wales going forward , financially made for life I bet .
Politicians , got to love them . |
They're all self serving parasites Robbie, once they get a taste for lining their own pockets that becomes their major focus. [Post edited 8 Oct 12:01]
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| Senedd Costs on 10:54 - Oct 8 with 1006 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Senedd Costs on 00:54 - Oct 8 by Robbie |
There are enough freeloaders in Westminster of all Parties to tolerate for now .
WAG want more hangers on and expenses paid gravy train passengers to carry on their supposed target to put Wales first , Drakeford soon put an end to that flying pig dream .
At least Kinnock and co were bombed out of MEP status , why was he there there doing a role with zero positive impact for Wales going forward , financially made for life I bet .
Politicians , got to love them . |
It is so easy to say this. They do work like anyone else.
Most of the big factories up the valleys have dealt with them in the past for grants and roadworks site preparation etc with rent deferrals etc
A massive Ineos factory was prepared in Bridgend in 2016. This would be ideal for employing redundant steel workers. Nice pay off straight into a training course with Ineos.
Sadly the people of NPT threw the advice and went with the public school joker Boris and voted for Brexit. Welsh patriots like me and most WAG members were dismayed. Ineos pulled out and relocated to France.
The people of NPT and Bridgend saw Euro investment collapse and got the US investment they wanted. 50 jobs recently announced looking after a computer farm at the same site.
I advise you love and respect your own people and follow their advice. I blame Welsh people. Blaming " the people" is practically blasphemy for some.
[Post edited 8 Oct 10:58]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Senedd Costs on 18:23 - Oct 9 with 858 views | SullutaCreturned |
Like I said, they called it advertising Wales. Except for ST David;s day they didn't eat anywhere Welsh, they didn't eat anything Welsh and then they went to an Irish bar.
It just sounds like another jolly at taxpayers expense. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 17:02 - Oct 25 with 549 views | Flashberryjack |
What a shower of shyte they really are, Irranca Davies ffs. |  |
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| Senedd Costs on 17:19 - Oct 25 with 538 views | AnotherJohn |
| Senedd Costs on 21:08 - Oct 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
A think tank actually. Perhaps losses were related to falls in the markets and increased interest rates on government borrowing. Real figures not made up. An independent think tank not the SNP who might have quoted them.
(The Resolution Foundation calculates that the mini-budget cost the UK Treasury £30bn, the Truss government caused roughly that amount of the fiscal hole which the Treasury claims is £60bn) [Post edited 7 Oct 21:09]
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The £30 billion keeps getting repeated despite the Resolution Foundation changing its tune and saying that the “mini-budget premium” on borrowing costs has now “unwound”.
https://fullfact.org/news/pmqs-snp-uk-economy-truss/
Liz Truss was a disaster, but thankfully the impact on the economy was fairly limited once things settled down. The losers were those who re-mortgaged on fixed rate deals soon after the mini-budget. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 19:05 - Oct 25 with 517 views | AnotherJohn |
Yes, I said much the same thing on the Starmer thread several days ago. The financial markets might well get jittery about the scale of borrowing, especially if there are more "newbie government" mis-steps in the next week or two. | | | |
| Senedd Costs on 20:42 - Oct 25 with 476 views | Whiterockin |
| Senedd Costs on 17:02 - Oct 25 by Flashberryjack |
What a shower of shyte they really are, Irranca Davies ffs. |
He was a shite lecturer and is now a shite politician. |  | | |
| Senedd Costs on 20:49 - Oct 25 with 455 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Senedd Costs on 10:54 - Oct 8 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It is so easy to say this. They do work like anyone else.
Most of the big factories up the valleys have dealt with them in the past for grants and roadworks site preparation etc with rent deferrals etc
A massive Ineos factory was prepared in Bridgend in 2016. This would be ideal for employing redundant steel workers. Nice pay off straight into a training course with Ineos.
Sadly the people of NPT threw the advice and went with the public school joker Boris and voted for Brexit. Welsh patriots like me and most WAG members were dismayed. Ineos pulled out and relocated to France.
The people of NPT and Bridgend saw Euro investment collapse and got the US investment they wanted. 50 jobs recently announced looking after a computer farm at the same site.
I advise you love and respect your own people and follow their advice. I blame Welsh people. Blaming " the people" is practically blasphemy for some.
[Post edited 8 Oct 10:58]
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The English Nationalists Johnson, Farage, and Mogg should be in jail ….. 🇪🇺🤝🏴 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Senedd Costs on 15:27 - Oct 29 with 304 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd Costs on 13:45 - Sep 29 by Kilkennyjack |
Ok so you think that a uk Tory govt reducing the number of welsh mp’s from the long standing 40 to just 32 does ‘not reduce our voice in any way’.
I rest my case.
I think you might find it reduced our voice by about, say, 8 MP’s …
The Tory party is always rejected in Wales … so reducing our welsh voice was quite deliberate. |
Every constituency in the UK is now of a similar size and has an equal voice.
Really no need to increase the Senedd as the talent pool is very small. Failure like gething and Drakeford just get moved to other posts. The voters cannot get rid of failing Senedd members especially with the new proportional representation system that has been imposed on the voters despite voters rejecting proportional representation the last time they were asked.
The Senedd will no long be democratic. | |
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| Senedd Costs on 16:03 - Oct 29 with 275 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Senedd Costs on 12:07 - Sep 29 by Dr_Winston |
The State of California, with nearly 40m people and a GDP of $3.9tn manages to get by with 120 elected representatives between its upper and lower house State legislature.
The idea that Wales, with a population less than a tenth of the size and a GDP that isn't even that close a comparison needs 96 of them is a political grift so obvious and disgusting that it's no real shock to see people like Kilks thinking that it's a great idea.
It'll cost taxpayers more, and be considerably less democratic. In reality with as many local authorities as we have in Wales we could halve the numbers of trough gobblers in Cardiff Bay and most people wouldn't even notice. [Post edited 29 Sep 12:08]
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Nothing compared to the House of Lords. In the evolution of Wales the parliament and self determination is vital for many of us. This is the first Welsh parliament ever.
It can perform a lot better if the voters were more careful in selecting their candidates. The last leader preferred to hang on to £200k rather than his job as the leader which was a pretty poor optic. It showed a lack of fibre. [Post edited 29 Oct 16:09]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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