| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:14 - Feb 10 with 2828 views | Cedar_Room |
it was this comment that stuck with me from BBM's missus:
"I guess he failed keeping them up twice and taking a league 1 side to two premiership games in 18 months...must do better"
Firstly those games against premier league clubs were undoubtedly some bright spots amidst the last few years of drudgery - but she is aware we lost both those games at premiership grounds isn't she?? In both cases BBM got us to the third round of a cup competition (hardly record setting or career defining) and we lucked out with a decent draw. Simply getting us to the 3rd round is not exactly out of this world unthinkable stuff. And furthermore - sure we are all grateful that BBM kept us from relegation I don't think you'd find any Dale fan who would be ungrateful about such a thing. But the thing with seasons where you just avoid relegation is that you still end up losing most of your games and playing absolute shite. This has been the case at Dale for far too long - the football is awful, the same mistakes are happening week in week out, we make it far too easy for the opposition to score and if anyone can see signs that this is getting any better then please point out what I am missing. Perhaps no other manager could do better given the constraints BBM is under but we support this club, not any individual manager, and at the moment the club is going backwards. If we stick with BBM I fear we will get relegated and we'll thoroughly deserve to. So why not roll the dice. |  | |  |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:15 - Feb 10 with 2828 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:13 - Feb 10 by bazingadale |
It's just a general overview rather than referencing anybody in particular.
If somebody chooses to express an opinion then you need to be prepared for people to disagree with you. |
Fair enough. I think it's worth noting though that in this scenario in particular, the people who have had their opinions disagreed with have been prepared for that and have been respectful of it, lest your post is misconstrued. |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:27 - Feb 10 with 2736 views | DaleiLama |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 13:52 - Feb 10 by judd |
Some very keen observations there.
I fully admire his tenacity and focus on the job and wanting to prove people wrong, which I can only assume are those who think we will be relegated.
Perhaps he is absolutely right - those fearing relegation are knee jerking and far too soon in any case.
But, taking D_Aliens excellent point about sporting entertainment, its has gone on for too long now, and the philosophy does not deliver an enjoyable spectacle. Rochdale are forever the underdogs, giving our competitors a bloody nose or sore shins is what we've been about forever.
Last season, Rotherham at home, Newcastle when he made the changes early doors and half time (I think), delivered magical - if rare- moments of pure joy. He can mix it up and get the rewards his undoubted work ethics and the wants of the supporters deserve. ( I'm only talking home games for the sake of this particular observation.)
Sadly, at the moment, if the choice for entertainment is Spotland or Joanna Lumley visiting a tweed weavers in the Outer Hebrides on TV, the latter wins hands down. |
I'm with you there. Could never tire of watching the adventures of JL's Arris. |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:32 - Feb 10 with 2707 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:04 - Feb 10 by tony_roch975 |
yes, it's that same dilemma about the Dale philosophy which James and I discussed earlier - so do we want entertainment or results; are they inseparable - arguably that's what Hill's early years delivered; do we want an Academy based business plan or to employ weathered lower/non league players into a 'robust' playing style - is it down to your world view!? |
No tony, it's a dilemma that predates yours' and James points; in fact it's been discussed by myself and plenty of others in the preceding few days, and indeed well before that
I'll happily point you in the right direction, should you need it
On your other point - it was empathy that you thought was absent in social media exchanges, not sympathy. Understanding the difference is crucial
[Post edited 10 Feb 2021 14:38]
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:34 - Feb 10 with 2702 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:11 - Feb 10 by AtThePeake |
But if the point is to develop players to sell with little to no significance placed on results, why bother bringing in loan players that we can't make money on? Why bother giving contracts to the likes of McShane and McNulty and Lonergan? We might as well take a punt on a youngster without a club in the hope that they become the next Kwadwo Baah if the results are of no significance anyway. |
but that's the same as Judd's comment - if the Academy produced enough quality players in the right positions we wouldn't have loans. Again it's not black & white - the plan doesn't aim for poor results but it may be an unintended consequence that we become (over?) reliant on technical (non physical) youth players who struggle against more physical League 1 teams. As to McShane etc - beggars can't be choosers, we're back to the financial inequality of professional football |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:36 - Feb 10 with 2682 views | DaleiLama |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:11 - Feb 10 by AtThePeake |
But if the point is to develop players to sell with little to no significance placed on results, why bother bringing in loan players that we can't make money on? Why bother giving contracts to the likes of McShane and McNulty and Lonergan? We might as well take a punt on a youngster without a club in the hope that they become the next Kwadwo Baah if the results are of no significance anyway. |
Agree. Without loanees we'd fall through the leagues like a stone. It's already looked too much like men vs boys in too many games this year already. If we just fielded a development squad every week, they would get slaughtered and fail to develop. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:36 - Feb 10 with 2679 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:04 - Feb 10 by tony_roch975 |
yes, it's that same dilemma about the Dale philosophy which James and I discussed earlier - so do we want entertainment or results; are they inseparable - arguably that's what Hill's early years delivered; do we want an Academy based business plan or to employ weathered lower/non league players into a 'robust' playing style - is it down to your world view!? |
It isn’t a choice between the two and never has been. We can play entertaining football and not defend so badly.
No need to muddy the waters further than that. |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:09 - Feb 10 with 2570 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:32 - Feb 10 by D_Alien |
No tony, it's a dilemma that predates yours' and James points; in fact it's been discussed by myself and plenty of others in the preceding few days, and indeed well before that
I'll happily point you in the right direction, should you need it
On your other point - it was empathy that you thought was absent in social media exchanges, not sympathy. Understanding the difference is crucial
[Post edited 10 Feb 2021 14:38]
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thin skins abound on this thread - of course it isn't a novel dilemma, that's why I didn't make that claim. Perhaps some fans raised it even before you or this Forum??
I think that both sympathy & empathy are absent from social media and of course you are right that it helps to know the different meanings that can be applied. This might help you - "The distinction between “empathy” and “sympathy” in the context of ethics is a dynamic and challenging one. The eighteenth century texts of David Hume and Adam Smith used the word “sympathy,” but not “empathy,” although the conceptual distinction marked by empathy was doing essential work in their writings." (cit Internet Encyclopaedia of Philosophy)
Do let me know if I can help your studies further. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:11 - Feb 10 with 2563 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:11 - Feb 10 by AtThePeake |
But if the point is to develop players to sell with little to no significance placed on results, why bother bringing in loan players that we can't make money on? Why bother giving contracts to the likes of McShane and McNulty and Lonergan? We might as well take a punt on a youngster without a club in the hope that they become the next Kwadwo Baah if the results are of no significance anyway. |
Exactly my point and thanks for telling me what I meant! |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:15 - Feb 10 with 2526 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 14:36 - Feb 10 by 442Dale |
It isn’t a choice between the two and never has been. We can play entertaining football and not defend so badly.
No need to muddy the waters further than that. |
absolutely and as I said earlier we'd all want both but it's useful, when we can't, to understand which one we want to give greatest emphasis to - I'm not defending either position just trying to debate where the problem lies (how much is it an unintended consequence of the business plan) | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:34 - Feb 10 with 2441 views | Salegraham |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 10:47 - Feb 10 by pioneer |
If the young lady struggles with the pressure on her partner at Rochdale it doesnt bode well for how she would cope should he ever get a position higher up the ladder.
We are all the worse for the outburst and the fallout. |
The way he's going it's not going up that will be a prob | | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:41 - Feb 10 with 2402 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:15 - Feb 10 by tony_roch975 |
absolutely and as I said earlier we'd all want both but it's useful, when we can't, to understand which one we want to give greatest emphasis to - I'm not defending either position just trying to debate where the problem lies (how much is it an unintended consequence of the business plan) |
Think most fans fully understand how it’s possible to defend properly and entertain fans. Teams across football have done it since the game began. Including Dale.
That it’s overthought by clubs, players and managers is the problem. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:57 - Feb 10 with 2349 views | James1980 |
My interpretation of the general message coming from the board is, due to crowd sizes in the stadium or online the only way we can be financially viable unless we get a wealthy backer. Is the current business model. Yes I know the football over the last few seasons has not been the sort that is going to attract much of a crowd. But if it was would it bring in sufficient crowds that we wouldn't have to accept offers of undisclosed plus add ons for our best players to stay in the black? [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 16:31]
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 16:22 - Feb 10 with 2283 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 15:57 - Feb 10 by James1980 |
My interpretation of the general message coming from the board is, due to crowd sizes in the stadium or online the only way we can be financially viable unless we get a wealthy backer. Is the current business model. Yes I know the football over the last few seasons has not been the sort that is going to attract much of a crowd. But if it was would it bring in sufficient crowds that we wouldn't have to accept offers of undisclosed plus add ons for our best players to stay in the black? [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 16:31]
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I'd suggest that the current business model was introduced by Dunphy and Hill many years ago. In fact, it was acknowledged in the Forbes magazine interview of last September that highlighted the development ,sale and add-ons for Craig Dawson still benefitting the club.
Match day income throughout football is typically less than 20% of annual income (I think ours was 16% in last accounts), so player sales simply have to be part of a business model.
You cannot budget for cup runs, and for drawing premiership clubs. That is just superb bonus income. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 17:56 - Feb 10 with 2057 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 16:22 - Feb 10 by judd |
I'd suggest that the current business model was introduced by Dunphy and Hill many years ago. In fact, it was acknowledged in the Forbes magazine interview of last September that highlighted the development ,sale and add-ons for Craig Dawson still benefitting the club.
Match day income throughout football is typically less than 20% of annual income (I think ours was 16% in last accounts), so player sales simply have to be part of a business model.
You cannot budget for cup runs, and for drawing premiership clubs. That is just superb bonus income. |
If you included bar and hospitality it accounts for 23-24%. If there were greater numbers through the turnstiles at the COA when we can go or more watching on Ifollow wouldn't that not only mean more ticket/match pass sales but more in the way of income from sponsorship/advertising?
Would having a more income coming in through the other streams mean we could rely less on the loan market to have further assets to develop. The current board are continuing with the model Dunphy & Hill introduced I am not saying there is anything wrong with it by the way. Just any replacement of BBM if he is shown the door is going to be expected to carry on business as usually. Unless there is a totally change of playing philosophy across the whole setup. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 18:59 - Feb 10 with 1908 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 21:03 - Feb 9 by Quigley_dale |
We lost in 2019 when Calvin (sic) Andrews played centre back! [Post edited 9 Feb 2021 21:04]
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...and to think we gave Calvin plenty of stick, but at least he was a trier,never gave up and could not be knocked for lack of effort..... | | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 19:08 - Feb 10 with 1890 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 18:59 - Feb 10 by Yorkshire_Dale |
...and to think we gave Calvin plenty of stick, but at least he was a trier,never gave up and could not be knocked for lack of effort..... |
Don’t think there has been any lack of effort from the current squad. They clearly care but last night there was a genuine feeling of being demoralised as the game petered out. | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 19:34 - Feb 10 with 1835 views | SaxonDale |
One other worry I'd have is that whilst Shaunessy looks a useful player, he didn't provide the steel I was hoping he would. If McShane is out for the season I'm not sure if we've recruited well enough defensively in January to keep consistent clean sheets. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 20:11 - Feb 10 with 1750 views | richfoad32 |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 19:34 - Feb 10 by SaxonDale |
One other worry I'd have is that whilst Shaunessy looks a useful player, he didn't provide the steel I was hoping he would. If McShane is out for the season I'm not sure if we've recruited well enough defensively in January to keep consistent clean sheets. |
Aye, he can be given a mulligan given it was first game with a new team and he's looking to find his feet but he definitely looks more the 'ball player' type than an enforcer. Not sure how he'd fare at centre half. Didn't Fitz say his time at Hearts was generally underwhelming as he lacked the aggression to cut it in the Scottish Prem? | | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 20:15 - Feb 10 with 1725 views | boromat |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 19:34 - Feb 10 by SaxonDale |
One other worry I'd have is that whilst Shaunessy looks a useful player, he didn't provide the steel I was hoping he would. If McShane is out for the season I'm not sure if we've recruited well enough defensively in January to keep consistent clean sheets. |
The comment from BBM about Shaugnessy not having played many games really frustrated me. In those conditions against a team we needed to be at our best we're playing someone we know isn't up to scratch yet. He also ended up having to play the full game. If we are playing so badly as well we need to start bringing Lund back into midfield he ends up being wasted to some extent up top.
Wish I hadn't come on this thread just got myself worked up again
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 22:45 - Feb 10 with 1497 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 13:57 - Feb 10 by Dalenet |
Is she on this Saturday afternoon? |
Playing away  | |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 23:26 - Feb 10 with 1428 views | Shun |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 19:34 - Feb 10 by SaxonDale |
One other worry I'd have is that whilst Shaunessy looks a useful player, he didn't provide the steel I was hoping he would. If McShane is out for the season I'm not sure if we've recruited well enough defensively in January to keep consistent clean sheets. |
Speaking of clean sheets, someone posted our home results last night and I was alarmed to see we've only kept one home clean sheet all season!
Out of interest, does anyone know what our worst ever home record is over a full season? |  | | |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 23:52 - Feb 10 with 1392 views | dingdangblue |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 23:26 - Feb 10 by Shun |
Speaking of clean sheets, someone posted our home results last night and I was alarmed to see we've only kept one home clean sheet all season!
Out of interest, does anyone know what our worst ever home record is over a full season? |
Presume it will be our relegation season 73/74?
Won 1 at home but drew 12. It was 2 points for a win so 14 points. |  |
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| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 07:50 - Feb 11 with 1217 views | DaleiLama |
| Match Thread: Rochdale vs Milton Keynes on 13:57 - Feb 10 by Dalenet |
Is she on this Saturday afternoon? |
You can catch up with her on Skye | |
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