| Starmer! Wow! on 12:59 - Sep 22 with 1637 views | Whiterockin |
| Starmer! Wow! on 12:54 - Sep 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Yes they split up last year apparently. So that proves that their coincidental meeting thousands of miles away was just completely platonic and the arrangement to both spend the night in a massive apartment paid for by their donor was merely an arrangement of convenience and they both were tucked up in separate rooms by 8 o clock with the doors firmly locked. |
Once upon a time in a land far away........ |  | |  |
| Starmer! Wow! on 13:52 - Sep 22 with 1575 views | AnotherJohn |
| Starmer! Wow! on 11:53 - Sep 22 by onehunglow |
So do I. You wouldn’t spend a weekend with Ange would you? |
The optics would be okay, but I'd expect the audio to be the deal breaker.  |  | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 14:17 - Sep 22 with 1560 views | Wingstandwood |
| Starmer! Wow! on 12:54 - Sep 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Yes they split up last year apparently. So that proves that their coincidental meeting thousands of miles away was just completely platonic and the arrangement to both spend the night in a massive apartment paid for by their donor was merely an arrangement of convenience and they both were tucked up in separate rooms by 8 o clock with the doors firmly locked. |
Aye, a bit like losing a wedding ring whilst fishing off Mumbles Pier, only for it to to reappear in a fishes intestines after gutting it whilst on a Florida Keys fishing holiday.
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| Starmer! Wow! on 19:29 - Sep 22 with 1390 views | raynor94 |
£14000 for a 40th birthday! Kuensberg tied Rayner up in knots this morning for her freebie in NY with her boyfriend.
It's sickening how fast their snouts went in the troughs.
Sharon Graham is going to humiliate them tomorrow over the WFA allowance. |  |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 20:22 - Sep 22 with 1352 views | Robbie |
Bet the shredding machines are in overdrive at No.10 tonight , dodgy e mails soon to be forgotten about , likewise group chat Whatsapp accounts furiously being deleted asap .
One load of liars and snouts in the trough politicians booted out , sadly replaced by a new Government with the same ethic , take ,take ,take . | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 21:06 - Sep 22 with 1288 views | union_jack |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:29 - Sep 22 by raynor94 |
£14000 for a 40th birthday! Kuensberg tied Rayner up in knots this morning for her freebie in NY with her boyfriend.
It's sickening how fast their snouts went in the troughs.
Sharon Graham is going to humiliate them tomorrow over the WFA allowance. |
The entire OAPs in the country could turn against them and they wouldn’t care one bit.
They won’t want the unions having a go though so I hope she rips them a new one. |  |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 22:37 - Sep 22 with 1257 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Starmer! Wow! on 20:22 - Sep 22 by Robbie |
Bet the shredding machines are in overdrive at No.10 tonight , dodgy e mails soon to be forgotten about , likewise group chat Whatsapp accounts furiously being deleted asap .
One load of liars and snouts in the trough politicians booted out , sadly replaced by a new Government with the same ethic , take ,take ,take . |
The Newsnight political editor did a piece on her in 2015 which claimed she is notorious for not leaving any sort of paper or electronic trail at all. Everything she does is oral (no sniggering there at the back!). She also is an expert on how to get around freedom of information requests.
So much for a new transparent well behaved government with adults taking control. |  |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 00:44 - Sep 23 with 1228 views | Robbie |
| Starmer! Wow! on 21:06 - Sep 22 by union_jack |
The entire OAPs in the country could turn against them and they wouldn’t care one bit.
They won’t want the unions having a go though so I hope she rips them a new one. |
As an ex TGWU and Unite member , retired lets see how much the Unions now take control of pay negotiations , Labour have already caved in to Junior Doctors and train drivers .
See a Doctor at my Primary Care , forget it but send us a photo of the problem , wow .
Train Drivers on £70 k + per year, Starmer stated they were necessary to keep the UK going.
There are far more important and needed people in everyday life who would like 70 grand a year for doing essential and the dirty jobs , a true Labour policy would put them first .
Never wanted him or voted for him , another load of charlatans and chancers at the helm . | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 08:24 - Sep 23 with 1124 views | onehunglow |
| Starmer! Wow! on 00:44 - Sep 23 by Robbie |
As an ex TGWU and Unite member , retired lets see how much the Unions now take control of pay negotiations , Labour have already caved in to Junior Doctors and train drivers .
See a Doctor at my Primary Care , forget it but send us a photo of the problem , wow .
Train Drivers on £70 k + per year, Starmer stated they were necessary to keep the UK going.
There are far more important and needed people in everyday life who would like 70 grand a year for doing essential and the dirty jobs , a true Labour policy would put them first .
Never wanted him or voted for him , another load of charlatans and chancers at the helm . |
Rachel Reeves this morning on BBC came over ,to me,as yet another arrogant,smarmy,xxxx totally unwilling to give a straight answer .
Working people
22 million black hole yeah baby,yeah | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 08:38 - Sep 23 with 1091 views | majorraglan |
| Starmer! Wow! on 00:44 - Sep 23 by Robbie |
As an ex TGWU and Unite member , retired lets see how much the Unions now take control of pay negotiations , Labour have already caved in to Junior Doctors and train drivers .
See a Doctor at my Primary Care , forget it but send us a photo of the problem , wow .
Train Drivers on £70 k + per year, Starmer stated they were necessary to keep the UK going.
There are far more important and needed people in everyday life who would like 70 grand a year for doing essential and the dirty jobs , a true Labour policy would put them first .
Never wanted him or voted for him , another load of charlatans and chancers at the helm . |
The train drivers are employed by private companies so Labour haven’t caved in to the unions.
The junior doctors were on a starting salary of £29k per year until the pay award, they are the ones working on the hospital wards and not the doctors working at the GP practices. Primary Care isn’t working and needs to be changed and made more accessible.
Agree with you about train drivers not being worth £70k per year and that there are more worthy people out there. | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 09:30 - Sep 23 with 1071 views | Boundy |
He's right you know , opps sorry , same sleaze different party . Funny how the media can and often does come back and bite you ,time after time. Regardless whether the clothes scandal is on a smaller scale than partygate , its still sleaze and the public don't forget such things.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-56872426 | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 11:21 - Sep 23 with 1054 views | onehunglow |
Reeves this morning
Had a harder time batting off Madeley.
Smarmy or what
She’s pretty shameless I’d say | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 12:41 - Sep 23 with 1011 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:29 - Sep 22 by raynor94 |
£14000 for a 40th birthday! Kuensberg tied Rayner up in knots this morning for her freebie in NY with her boyfriend.
It's sickening how fast their snouts went in the troughs.
Sharon Graham is going to humiliate them tomorrow over the WFA allowance. |
I wonder if he took her up Central Park? | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 15:07 - Sep 23 with 948 views | AnotherJohn |
| Starmer! Wow! on 08:38 - Sep 23 by majorraglan |
The train drivers are employed by private companies so Labour haven’t caved in to the unions.
The junior doctors were on a starting salary of £29k per year until the pay award, they are the ones working on the hospital wards and not the doctors working at the GP practices. Primary Care isn’t working and needs to be changed and made more accessible.
Agree with you about train drivers not being worth £70k per year and that there are more worthy people out there. |
Re the junior (now "resident") doctor salaries, I thought they deserved a bit more, but not as much as they got in the one deal. It adds a bit of context if we look at the way the salary scale rose quite quickly. The starting basic salary of £29, 384 in 2022/23 was for Foundation Year 1 when the trainees are closely supervised and only have provisional GMC registration. This rose to nearly £60K for those in the late stages of specialty training. In addition to that there were/are extra payments for on-call and weekend working. By the end of the strikes earlier this year they were already on a higher 2023/24 salary scale albeit not one they had accepted. This was revised upwards to run from £36. 616 basic pay in FY1 to £63,152 in the final years of specialty training. From later this year the 2024-25 salaries will increase by another 8%. There are then higher salaries for specialty doctors (i.e. those who complete training and are on the GMC specialist register) and consultants. And at the top many have private work to supplement their NHS income. So not too bad. [Post edited 23 Sep 15:20]
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| Starmer! Wow! on 17:53 - Sep 23 with 828 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Starmer! Wow! on 15:07 - Sep 23 by AnotherJohn |
Re the junior (now "resident") doctor salaries, I thought they deserved a bit more, but not as much as they got in the one deal. It adds a bit of context if we look at the way the salary scale rose quite quickly. The starting basic salary of £29, 384 in 2022/23 was for Foundation Year 1 when the trainees are closely supervised and only have provisional GMC registration. This rose to nearly £60K for those in the late stages of specialty training. In addition to that there were/are extra payments for on-call and weekend working. By the end of the strikes earlier this year they were already on a higher 2023/24 salary scale albeit not one they had accepted. This was revised upwards to run from £36. 616 basic pay in FY1 to £63,152 in the final years of specialty training. From later this year the 2024-25 salaries will increase by another 8%. There are then higher salaries for specialty doctors (i.e. those who complete training and are on the GMC specialist register) and consultants. And at the top many have private work to supplement their NHS income. So not too bad. [Post edited 23 Sep 15:20]
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No guaranteed job with a career pathway that can go as high as £500K with a gold plated pension, let alone any private work. |  |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 19:37 - Sep 23 with 708 views | majorraglan |
| Starmer! Wow! on 17:53 - Sep 23 by JACKMANANDBOY |
No guaranteed job with a career pathway that can go as high as £500K with a gold plated pension, let alone any private work. |
The £500k figure you quote is around 3.5 times the highest NHS salary band, I’d like to know how many are on that and where. | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:43 - Sep 23 with 686 views | majorraglan |
| Starmer! Wow! on 15:07 - Sep 23 by AnotherJohn |
Re the junior (now "resident") doctor salaries, I thought they deserved a bit more, but not as much as they got in the one deal. It adds a bit of context if we look at the way the salary scale rose quite quickly. The starting basic salary of £29, 384 in 2022/23 was for Foundation Year 1 when the trainees are closely supervised and only have provisional GMC registration. This rose to nearly £60K for those in the late stages of specialty training. In addition to that there were/are extra payments for on-call and weekend working. By the end of the strikes earlier this year they were already on a higher 2023/24 salary scale albeit not one they had accepted. This was revised upwards to run from £36. 616 basic pay in FY1 to £63,152 in the final years of specialty training. From later this year the 2024-25 salaries will increase by another 8%. There are then higher salaries for specialty doctors (i.e. those who complete training and are on the GMC specialist register) and consultants. And at the top many have private work to supplement their NHS income. So not too bad. [Post edited 23 Sep 15:20]
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A significant number of the doctors on wards are F1 and F2 and while they are in tra8ning, they carry a fair degree of responsibility. They are on relatively poor money and the ones I feel who needed the rise, the more senior clinicians are doing ok as you point out.
The problem we have in the U.K. is retention, if we want to retain our doctors we have to come close to getting what they can be paid elsewhere, or we end up in a situation similar to where we’ve been before. | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:50 - Sep 23 with 659 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:37 - Sep 23 by majorraglan |
The £500k figure you quote is around 3.5 times the highest NHS salary band, I’d like to know how many are on that and where. |
The data is on NHS Digital, there is a handful on 500K. | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 19:51 - Sep 23 with 655 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Starmer! Wow! on 08:38 - Sep 23 by majorraglan |
The train drivers are employed by private companies so Labour haven’t caved in to the unions.
The junior doctors were on a starting salary of £29k per year until the pay award, they are the ones working on the hospital wards and not the doctors working at the GP practices. Primary Care isn’t working and needs to be changed and made more accessible.
Agree with you about train drivers not being worth £70k per year and that there are more worthy people out there. |
Of course they have caved into ASLEF. It was labour that set up the latest talks and agreed to huge payments without any changes to ASLEF'S restricted working practices.
Labour has promised to nationalise the rail companies on the cheap at the end of their franchises without any compensation to the companies asset they are going to steal. | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 20:46 - Sep 23 with 618 views | onehunglow |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:51 - Sep 23 by felixstowe_jack |
Of course they have caved into ASLEF. It was labour that set up the latest talks and agreed to huge payments without any changes to ASLEF'S restricted working practices.
Labour has promised to nationalise the rail companies on the cheap at the end of their franchises without any compensation to the companies asset they are going to steal. |
They’ve given in as ASLEY has power .
Pensioners gave nine
This government is one if rank cowardice .
Reeves every bit as arrogant as any Tory posh boy / girl
“ working people” just get out of here | |
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| Starmer! Wow! on 21:10 - Sep 23 with 593 views | Gwyn737 |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:43 - Sep 23 by majorraglan |
A significant number of the doctors on wards are F1 and F2 and while they are in tra8ning, they carry a fair degree of responsibility. They are on relatively poor money and the ones I feel who needed the rise, the more senior clinicians are doing ok as you point out.
The problem we have in the U.K. is retention, if we want to retain our doctors we have to come close to getting what they can be paid elsewhere, or we end up in a situation similar to where we’ve been before. |
Pay is certainly part of the issue.
We want a world class health service but some don’t want to pay the rate to retain doctors and nurses.
I know you keep banging the drum Major and you’re right, all labour have done in the main is agree with independent pay review boards. These are not unfair rewards.
The only other option is strikes and public services getting worse. Don’t pay people and they go to do something else. | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 21:48 - Sep 23 with 563 views | Whiterockin |
| Starmer! Wow! on 21:10 - Sep 23 by Gwyn737 |
Pay is certainly part of the issue.
We want a world class health service but some don’t want to pay the rate to retain doctors and nurses.
I know you keep banging the drum Major and you’re right, all labour have done in the main is agree with independent pay review boards. These are not unfair rewards.
The only other option is strikes and public services getting worse. Don’t pay people and they go to do something else. |
Pay is not the only reason for people to leave some professions as you will know with teachers, the same with police. Many feel it is just not worth the hassle. The government can say they are going to recruit X number and pay whatever, but if the job is no longer attractive they won't get the numbers without drastically reducing the quality of the candidates. It's not all about money. | | | |
| Starmer! Wow! on 09:02 - Sep 24 with 370 views | AnotherJohn |
| Starmer! Wow! on 19:43 - Sep 23 by majorraglan |
A significant number of the doctors on wards are F1 and F2 and while they are in tra8ning, they carry a fair degree of responsibility. They are on relatively poor money and the ones I feel who needed the rise, the more senior clinicians are doing ok as you point out.
The problem we have in the U.K. is retention, if we want to retain our doctors we have to come close to getting what they can be paid elsewhere, or we end up in a situation similar to where we’ve been before. |
The argument that the main pay problem comes near the bottom of the scale seems plausible, but when one thinks about doctor emigration the difficulty is that it is not at this early stage that most UK doctors who emigrate leave. I amused myself by looking at a few stats (please skip if too boring).
There are just under 300,000 doctors licensed to practice medicine in the UK.
The GMC states that in 2022 the number joining the workforce was about double the number leaving.
Just over half of joiners in 2022 were doctors trained outside the UK and EU.
Nearly a quarter of the 72,000 plus resident (formerly junior) doctors are in FY1 and 2. This is slightly less than the number of doctors in core training and around half the number of those who are specialist registrars (i.e. still in training).
Recent expansions in UK medical education means that there are growing numbers of new UK graduates in the Foundation Programme. However, overseas doctors who have completed a recognised internship abroad do not enter the Foundation Programme and many are in the higher resident doctor grades.
Few if any doctors in the Foundation Programme emigrate at that stage as those in FY1 are not licensed to practice unsupervised, and FY2 have only just got on to the full GMC register.
There does appear to be a problem with many taking a break after FY2, with some of these then practising medicine abroad. In 2020/21 70% took a break at this stage. However, a 2018 GMC Report (Training Pathways 2) found that over 90% return to UK specialty training within 3 years. Leaving for a break is often attributed to burnout.
The largest category of doctors leaving the register are speciality and specialist doctors (the grades below consultants) and locally employed doctors (mainly temporary posts), In 2022, 5296 SAS and LE doctors left the UK register, compared with 2944 consultants and 565 doctors in training. That last figure shows that it is not the resident doctors who are the main group of leavers. Emigration comes later for most. Note that some of the above figures involve retirement or career change.
In 2022, of the various ethnic groups that make up the medical workforce, Egyptian, Irish and the ‘All other nationalities’ group were most likely to leave the UK workforce, and Nigerian and British-born doctors were the least likely to leave. Many of the 'all other nationalities' doctors entered the workforce through the European Economic Area (EEA) route, which is associated with shorter stays in post.
So looking at the above, the permanent leavers seem to be mainly doctors past their training, and the majority are not British graduates but overseas-trained doctors moving on. There is a problem of career breaks after FY2, which may be due to burn out and may be affected by poor morale linked to pay, but this is a short-term effect as most return to specialty training within 3 years. How retention and medical migration relate to pay, and especially pay in the Foundation Programme, therefore seems quite complicated. Most doctors seem to leave just as their pay is rising significantly, although there may be an issue with those stuck in the grades below consultant. It may be true that even at that stage countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada offer better pay and working conditions, but there are only so many vacancies there and there are many other countries around the globe where pay is much worse than in the UK.
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/workforce-report-2023-full-report_pdf-1
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/dc11392-training-pathways-report_pdf-75 [Post edited 24 Sep 13:49]
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Labour is a very liberal party now mind.