| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game 18:49 - Feb 15 with 30700 views | Rangersw12 |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 15:48 - Feb 23 with 2749 views | 89_50 |
Are the next set of accounts due by Tuesday or have I misread on Companies House? Will be interesting/sobering reading when published... |  | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:12 - Feb 23 with 2612 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 09:31 - Feb 20 by BrianMcCarthy |
"You only have to look on this message board and count the number of posters who throw their arms in the air and bemoan FFP, just because Les and Lee said so. All of a sudden, Lee finds £1m behind the sofa to pay off Neil and his coaching staff."
Clive has said on here that we need £10m soon to escape FFP. Ferdinand and Hoos are quiet on the subject as you'd expect them to be. From that £10m, we can deduct about 0.5m for the World Cup fees and about £1.5m (iirc) for Beale and staff, and now add £1m to Critchley and staff, so we need about £9m by my count.
Nobody bemoans FFP because "Les and Lee said so", we do it because it's real. |
So Hoos is a fiscal fraud - who'd have thunk it? The board moving him out, and quite possibly Les, would make me at least as happy as Wild Thing's return, if not happier. |  |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:15 - Feb 23 with 2672 views | Rangersw12 |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 15:28 - Feb 23 by Northernr |
You're right, I've seen a lot of QPR fans online thinking it counts against present FFP calculations, and it doesn't. Otherwise FFP risks becoming a self fulfilling cycle - you breach FFP, get fined, then breach it again because of the fine, get fined, then breach it again becuase of the fine and so on. It's on the list of exemptions.
However... where it does become relevant again is when people start shouting "sack the board". Because to get rid of the board you either have to find a buyer, or they dump it which means administration and collapse and relegation and all of that fun. If you wanted to buy QPR from the owners then the remainder of the FFP fine (think we agreed £17m paid over 10 years, and we're, what 4/5years into that now? So £8-10mish?) would have to be paid by you, unless you could get the current owners to swallow it as part of the deal. As would whatever is left on the training ground development - don't know this figure but the cost of the overall development was just past £20m and the bond raised just north of £7m, so potentially as much as £13m to pay. Then you've got a loss that, at the last set of accounts, was north of £21m p/a (reduced to £4m in that set by the sale of Eze but then raised to whatever it's about to be in this set of accounts by whatever we laid out last season).
So, just to get the keys to the door and operate the club for the first 12 months you could be talking about a figure in the region of £44m. That's before you buy a player, add a salary, do anything to the ground, anything. That's just to get the keys to the door and run the club as it's being run now. |
I'm not asking for the owners to leave but I think we need to replace the CEO and DOF as they use FFP as an excuse for their failures | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 17:33 - Feb 23 with 2524 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:11 - Feb 23 by QPR_Jim |
That stance is a bit limiting though in this instance. I get it with managers, you have a good idea of who the options are but there are still candidates like Beale who wouldn't be on many fans radar. Alternatives for DoF would be even more obscure for fans to come up with, but I would suggest the owners should have a good idea of the other options. |
You are talking about a board that gave a gig to Mike Rigg and Phil Beard! |  | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 17:51 - Feb 23 with 2459 views | R_from_afar |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 15:28 - Feb 23 by Northernr |
You're right, I've seen a lot of QPR fans online thinking it counts against present FFP calculations, and it doesn't. Otherwise FFP risks becoming a self fulfilling cycle - you breach FFP, get fined, then breach it again because of the fine, get fined, then breach it again becuase of the fine and so on. It's on the list of exemptions.
However... where it does become relevant again is when people start shouting "sack the board". Because to get rid of the board you either have to find a buyer, or they dump it which means administration and collapse and relegation and all of that fun. If you wanted to buy QPR from the owners then the remainder of the FFP fine (think we agreed £17m paid over 10 years, and we're, what 4/5years into that now? So £8-10mish?) would have to be paid by you, unless you could get the current owners to swallow it as part of the deal. As would whatever is left on the training ground development - don't know this figure but the cost of the overall development was just past £20m and the bond raised just north of £7m, so potentially as much as £13m to pay. Then you've got a loss that, at the last set of accounts, was north of £21m p/a (reduced to £4m in that set by the sale of Eze but then raised to whatever it's about to be in this set of accounts by whatever we laid out last season).
So, just to get the keys to the door and operate the club for the first 12 months you could be talking about a figure in the region of £44m. That's before you buy a player, add a salary, do anything to the ground, anything. That's just to get the keys to the door and run the club as it's being run now. |
"So, just to get the keys to the door and operate the club for the first 12 months you could be talking about a figure in the region of £44m".
Hold that thought while we all look down the backs of our sofas 
In all seriousness, that makes for very sobering reading! |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 17:58 - Feb 23 with 2429 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:07 - Feb 23 by simmo |
I often wonder why FFP doesn't reflect a clubs revenue ability - it doesn't seem fair that clubs with less earning power and increased running costs should have the same deficit cap... That said I think there's examples of 4 or 5 others in this league with the same constraints that are working smarter - so it would be good to sit down and discuss tangible action points with those deciding the strategy.
Other than that the original statement is basically firing a gun into the air. |
Gary Neville made a great argument the other week on Sky. He said FFP is essentially a way to keep the elite clubs at the top - they didn't like Man City muscling in with all their money and don't want it happening again.
He suggested no club should be able to spend more than the highest-earning revenue maker in their division. I think that's much fairer. Why shouldn't our owners invest more if they want to? As long as it's done right and doesn't leave a club destitute.
At the moment if a smaller club is challenging in January, one with parachute payments can just blow them out the water in January. How is that fair? |  |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 18:17 - Feb 23 with 2392 views | daveB |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 08:22 - Feb 23 by Esox_Lucius |
Is the protest still on? I'll be getting to the ground early just in case. |
LSA said about a week ago they are meeting with Hoos & Ferdinand in early March so nothing planned this weekend |  | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 19:47 - Feb 23 with 2265 views | TK1 |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:45 - Feb 23 by Rangersw12 |
Cheers for the history lesson and lecture but the FFP fine isn't included in the FFP calculations so its irrelevant
Point is crap like Luton are head of us with the same restrictions yet some fans like you just blame it on FFP when reality is we're being run terribly and we should be doing better |
Sorry, not trying to patronise you but can see how that reads. Apologies.
But yeah, I do think having a £17 million quid fine hanging over a club for a decade who already lose £10 million quid a year, who are nudging FFP still (and we'll know how much soon) is a unique problem that other clubs our size don't face in this league. We had our chance, that's my argument. We had the promotions and the parachute payments. And it wasn't LF who blew it.
Agreed, Luton are slightly ahead of us right now. Let's see how that pans out, especially if they start building their stadium. All these clubs are in the same trap. They're a well run club of a similar size, but they had to totally implode to get there. Much bigger clubs than us in the division below us also struggling with it.
FFP is a reality. It's not an excuse. We shouldn't be doing better, looking at the income (we could be, though, I agree), we're over-achieving. But a couple of wins on the bounce and the picture changes again. | | | |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 08:07 - Feb 24 with 2063 views | SimonD |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:26 - Feb 20 by PinnerPaul |
Problem is Brian, accounting and FFP rules are complex.
Simon may know, but its possible we can account for NC etc pay off over the life of their contracts?
All sorts of complexities like that we don't understand.
As I said on another thread, I do agree with you, its not 'finding the £1m" that's the problem, its accounting for it within FFP. |
This will be opinion rather than fact, but it will depend on how Critchley's severance has been handled. I'd assume that we are paying him a year's salary. If he is still "employed" by the club for that year, his money will be part of the payroll, if we've gone for a clean break it will be one hit now. It couldn't be spread across the length of his contract as that would have been terminated. Payments to him could be staged but that would be a cash flow consideration and would not be reflected in the profit and loss that way.
As far as the future FFP issue is concerned it is irrelevant, as either way his payoff will be accounted for in full during the FFP reporting period of concern. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 08:28 - Feb 24 with 2013 views | SimonD |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:12 - Feb 23 by stainrods_elbow |
So Hoos is a fiscal fraud - who'd have thunk it? The board moving him out, and quite possibly Les, would make me at least as happy as Wild Thing's return, if not happier. |
I'm not sure how you get the the fraud conclusion.
If the club was genuinely concerned about relegation, then they had to sack Critchley and get in a new manager. No one wanted that expense but it is considerably "cheaper" that getting relegated.
The FFP issue, which Hoos is fully aware of, is coming at the end of next season. Relegation would have been an far more immediate concern and so has (hopefully) been dealt with.
This FFP issue has been exacerbated by the collapse of the Championship transfer market which, to my knowledge, no one predicted this before Covid struck.
As per Brian's calculation, sacking Critchley will have added to the shortfall that needs to be made up by the end of next season whereas relegation would have lost us far more significant solidarity revenue, broadcasting rights, sponsorship, ticket sales, commercial income etc. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 11:38 - Feb 24 with 1872 views | TheChef |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 08:28 - Feb 24 by SimonD |
I'm not sure how you get the the fraud conclusion.
If the club was genuinely concerned about relegation, then they had to sack Critchley and get in a new manager. No one wanted that expense but it is considerably "cheaper" that getting relegated.
The FFP issue, which Hoos is fully aware of, is coming at the end of next season. Relegation would have been an far more immediate concern and so has (hopefully) been dealt with.
This FFP issue has been exacerbated by the collapse of the Championship transfer market which, to my knowledge, no one predicted this before Covid struck.
As per Brian's calculation, sacking Critchley will have added to the shortfall that needs to be made up by the end of next season whereas relegation would have lost us far more significant solidarity revenue, broadcasting rights, sponsorship, ticket sales, commercial income etc. |
Cheers for that Simon.
Somewhat flies in the face of S_E's usual manic accusations though  |  |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:28 - Feb 24 with 1729 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Didn't our owners vote for FFP, along with most of the other Championship teams at the time? Talk about turkeys at Christmas. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:34 - Feb 24 with 1728 views | Northernr |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:28 - Feb 24 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Didn't our owners vote for FFP, along with most of the other Championship teams at the time? Talk about turkeys at Christmas. |
Yes, and quite. I suspect because it PRd well at the time.
It was basically sold at the time as a way to reign in clubs like Chelsea, Man City, and at our level Villa and Newcastle, just buying the division - level the playing field. In fact, it's just closed the shop at the top end and made it nigh on impossible for anybody else to break in.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:12 - Feb 24 with 1606 views | QPR_Jim |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:34 - Feb 24 by Northernr |
Yes, and quite. I suspect because it PRd well at the time.
It was basically sold at the time as a way to reign in clubs like Chelsea, Man City, and at our level Villa and Newcastle, just buying the division - level the playing field. In fact, it's just closed the shop at the top end and made it nigh on impossible for anybody else to break in.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Does anyone know how developed were the proposals when they put it to the vote?
It does make good PR when owners had been lumping debt onto the clubs and leaving the club to foot the bill, which is what FFP was supposed to stop. I'm not so sure that many fans wanted it to stop owners investing in the club if they wished to do so and were willing to put the money in with no strings attached.
Was it clear that the EFL wanted to stop this as well when they put it to the vote or did they vote for the principle of not loading clubs up with debt? |  | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:24 - Feb 24 with 1575 views | Northernr |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:12 - Feb 24 by QPR_Jim |
Does anyone know how developed were the proposals when they put it to the vote?
It does make good PR when owners had been lumping debt onto the clubs and leaving the club to foot the bill, which is what FFP was supposed to stop. I'm not so sure that many fans wanted it to stop owners investing in the club if they wished to do so and were willing to put the money in with no strings attached.
Was it clear that the EFL wanted to stop this as well when they put it to the vote or did they vote for the principle of not loading clubs up with debt? |
The EFL was beset by clubs going into admin prior to the rules coming in, for a long time they held up the abatement of that as a sign it was working, but then of course a few have collapsed anyway since. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:53 - Feb 24 with 1493 views | themodfather |
many clubs facing cash worries , sadly too many clubs in the past owed millions and it got wiped off, leicester was not too long ago, new stadium, debts and a title/promotion owing £75m at the time? if they had to cough up, they would have been in the deep end with no life guard.
us, derby, owls , bolton bury and others have seen their teams fall as the top 6 get bigger and further away NOT what fans wanted with FFP
brum are in trouble, cardiff probably reading soon all wanting to get in the dream league of the premiership. it is a ferking modern nightmare. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:59 - Feb 24 with 1474 views | QPR_Jim |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 13:24 - Feb 24 by Northernr |
The EFL was beset by clubs going into admin prior to the rules coming in, for a long time they held up the abatement of that as a sign it was working, but then of course a few have collapsed anyway since. |
True, the rules didn't account for such free thinkers as Mel Morris.
Trying to find out about this vote, looks like the championship voted for it in April 2012, when we were in the Premier league, so are we sure that TF voted for it? Hoos may have done as he was at Burnley.
That was the original FFP rules where you were essentially taxed on overspend, so slightly different. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:55 - Feb 24 with 1367 views | SimonD |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:28 - Feb 24 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Didn't our owners vote for FFP, along with most of the other Championship teams at the time? Talk about turkeys at Christmas. |
Sadly true. As I've had the story presented to me, we were the casting vote.
No idea how true that is. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:58 - Feb 24 with 1353 views | SimonD |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 15:48 - Feb 23 by 89_50 |
Are the next set of accounts due by Tuesday or have I misread on Companies House? Will be interesting/sobering reading when published... |
We still have another month, but the delay doesn't bode well. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 15:11 - Feb 24 with 1311 views | PinnerPaul |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 08:07 - Feb 24 by SimonD |
This will be opinion rather than fact, but it will depend on how Critchley's severance has been handled. I'd assume that we are paying him a year's salary. If he is still "employed" by the club for that year, his money will be part of the payroll, if we've gone for a clean break it will be one hit now. It couldn't be spread across the length of his contract as that would have been terminated. Payments to him could be staged but that would be a cash flow consideration and would not be reflected in the profit and loss that way.
As far as the future FFP issue is concerned it is irrelevant, as either way his payoff will be accounted for in full during the FFP reporting period of concern. |
Thanks | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:49 - Feb 24 with 1165 views | PunteR |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:55 - Feb 24 by SimonD |
Sadly true. As I've had the story presented to me, we were the casting vote.
No idea how true that is. |
The stupidity of Tony Fernandes knows no bounds.
If true. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 17:12 - Feb 24 with 1100 views | Lblock |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 14:55 - Feb 24 by SimonD |
Sadly true. As I've had the story presented to me, we were the casting vote.
No idea how true that is. |
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 17:13 - Feb 24 with 1101 views | QPR_Jim |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 16:49 - Feb 24 by PunteR |
The stupidity of Tony Fernandes knows no bounds.
If true. |
I'm struggling to find anything to back this up.
So far:
Initial vote to introduce FFP - April 2012 - Voted by championship clubs - QPR in Premier League
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17841566
Vote to change rules from the ones we were punished by to the current rules - November 2014 - Voted by championship clubs - QPR in Premier League
https://www.efl.com/news/2014/november/championship-clubs-agree-new-financial-fa
Not arguing that TF isn't an idiot, I just can't seem to find any record of a vote taking place that effected FFP when QPR were in the Championship. | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 11:50 - Feb 28 with 802 views | Rangersw12 |
LSA have a meeting tomorrow does anyone know what they're going to ask the club?
With the accounts out, they need to be asking the correct questions and not nonsense like why didn't we sign a striker bla bla | | | |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 12:02 - Feb 28 with 743 views | stantheman10 |
| Potential LSA Protest Blackburn game on 11:50 - Feb 28 by Rangersw12 |
LSA have a meeting tomorrow does anyone know what they're going to ask the club?
With the accounts out, they need to be asking the correct questions and not nonsense like why didn't we sign a striker bla bla |
Their questions according to their Facebook page are:-
What is the current strategy & medium & long term vision.
How effective are the senior roles.
Why are we failing to develop good young players.
Directors of the club should address the concerns of our loyal fans (not sure if that is a question) | | | |
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