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Posted with some trepidation as I know Clive doesn’t like multis. Understandably overlooked by the national media, but it seems like the Russians are completely caving in, rope-a-doped as effectively as von Paulus in 1942. Who knows what this might lead to?
How about letting the Ukrainians decide when they go to the negotiating table, after all it is they who have been invaded and they who are dying in the thousands and being terrorised.
Putin and Russia has shown on repeated occasions they will not stick to any deal, and the best conditions they will agree to will be a ceasefire and a frozen conflict that allows them to rebuild their war machine and go again.
Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a state, so how can there be any negotiating with that?
They invaded back in 2014, tearing up the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. Built up a force they though big enough to conquer Ukraine. The Wests lack of a backbone and appeasement back in 2014 is why he thought he could come back for more.
What on earth makes you think he can be trusted on anything he signs?
We all want a negotiated peace, but it has to be something that will last and that will not happen under Putin while he still believes Ukraine's lands are Russian.
You may not want your money spent to arm Ukraine, However I do, as I firmly believe that to allow Putin any form of victory will be far more expensive in the long term.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2022 18:32]
"You may not want your money spent to arm Ukraine, However I do, as I firmly believe that to allow Putin any form of victory will be far more expensive in the long term."
And why do you believe that? Because the media told you so perhaps....?? 🤦â€â™‚ï¸
I fail to see how sending ££££trillions quite literally up in smoke now is a good long term option (except for the arms manufacturers/military complex)
"You may not want your money spent to arm Ukraine, However I do, as I firmly believe that to allow Putin any form of victory will be far more expensive in the long term."
And why do you believe that? Because the media told you so perhaps....?? 🤦â€â™‚ï¸
I fail to see how sending ££££trillions quite literally up in smoke now is a good long term option (except for the arms manufacturers/military complex)
[Post edited 21 Nov 2022 8:49]
So you believe Putin can be trusted and will negotiate in good faith despite the fact that he's now TWICE reneged on security guarantees against Ukraine?
You are aware that both the UK and US were primary signatories (along with Russia) to the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances which Russia has violated. Without this Ukraine would have retained nuclear weapons ( with all the dangers commensurate with an evolving nation with endemic corruption issues after freedom from the USSR))
As part of that both the UK and US are obliged to provide assistance to Ukraine after Russia's invasion. They failed to provide appropriate assistance after 2014 annexation of Crimea, and the current escalation in the war is as a direct result of them following the easy path.
Maybe you would prefer that the UK and the US renege entirely on their obligations now Russia invaded the rest of Ukraine?
Now shortage of eggs is down to Ukraine apparently. You just can 't make this shit up.
I think you just did, most of the articles I've read about it clearly state that Bird Flu is the main reason and identify some other things such as inflation as not helping. I keep some chickens in my garden, so been keeping a close eye on the situation around the egg shortages, if it gets too bad I'm worried that someone might come and steal one of our girls.
Bird Flu seems to have been really bad this year with restrictions in place for more time than previous years yet cases being higher which unless the APHA have changed their reporting of cases, is very worrying.
Yep. He's just donated another £50m of OUR money for weapons, without asking US and having told us just days ago that the country is skint.
The whole thing is outrageous. P!sses me right off that our govt taxes us to the hilt then uses the money to fund wars without ever bothering to ask us. I want my money back, I don't want to fund Ukrainian weapons, and I want to see Zelensky forced to the negotiating table for peace talks.
Seems to me that the weapons manufacturers decide policy on this planet
[Post edited 19 Nov 2022 17:22]
You also seemed to have overlooked big pharma and central banks on being heavily involved in policy making on the planet
I think you just did, most of the articles I've read about it clearly state that Bird Flu is the main reason and identify some other things such as inflation as not helping. I keep some chickens in my garden, so been keeping a close eye on the situation around the egg shortages, if it gets too bad I'm worried that someone might come and steal one of our girls.
Bird Flu seems to have been really bad this year with restrictions in place for more time than previous years yet cases being higher which unless the APHA have changed their reporting of cases, is very worrying.
plus some farmers are making a loss on eggs, the increased costs combined with their supermarket overlords meaning some have got out of the business. Eggsited, even.
Very much like the msm/politicians and every other fringe group who have skin in the game who almost every year predict we have weeks/days/hours to save the NHS. Same as those who have been telling us over many decades that we have so little time to save the planet.
Just as night follows day, here we are again, with our poor old NHS on it`s ar$e.
Bang on. They don't give a stuff about Ukraine or Ukrainians, and they know full well that Russia poses no threat to us at all if left to sort out its issues with Ukraine itself. It's £billions of OUR hard earned they are spending to achieve nothing other than prolong the war and line the pockets of their weapons manufacturer mates, whilst at the same time saying that the country is skint (but not skint enough to spend £billions on weapons) and putting us all in grave danger. Absolutely shocking 😞
You cannot negotiate with a Tiger when your head is in its mouth! Wonder how Winston would handle Vladimir, I suspect he would encourage and energise current direction.
Bang on. They don't give a stuff about Ukraine or Ukrainians, and they know full well that Russia poses no threat to us at all if left to sort out its issues with Ukraine itself. It's £billions of OUR hard earned they are spending to achieve nothing other than prolong the war and line the pockets of their weapons manufacturer mates, whilst at the same time saying that the country is skint (but not skint enough to spend £billions on weapons) and putting us all in grave danger. Absolutely shocking 😞
Bang on. They don't give a stuff about Ukraine or Ukrainians, and they know full well that Russia poses no threat to us at all if left to sort out its issues with Ukraine itself. It's £billions of OUR hard earned they are spending to achieve nothing other than prolong the war and line the pockets of their weapons manufacturer mates, whilst at the same time saying that the country is skint (but not skint enough to spend £billions on weapons) and putting us all in grave danger. Absolutely shocking 😞
International food prices and wholesale gas prices have fallen. Gas prices have been back where they were before the Ukraine "situation" for a fair while so where are our price reductions.?
(Psst...wanna buy a second hand Challenger 2?Low mileage one lady owner,never raced or rallied.)
You cannot negotiate with a Tiger when your head is in its mouth! Wonder how Winston would handle Vladimir, I suspect he would encourage and energise current direction.
probably shouldn't have let it get to the stage where you have your head in it's mouth, if you want to reduce everything to cliches.
Ukraine, Russia. I really couldn't care less which one of those despotic one party states wins their domestic squabble. What I find surprises me, is how many westerners have been sucked in to automatically supporting the Ukranian dictator, over the Russian dictator.
Ukraine, Russia. I really couldn't care less which one of those despotic one party states wins their domestic squabble. What I find surprises me, is how many westerners have been sucked in to automatically supporting the Ukranian dictator, over the Russian dictator.
Zelensky was one of 39 candidates for president in the 2019 election he won with about 73 per cent of the vote in the run-off against the sitting president in an election that was declared as free and fair by observers.
It's all gone a bit QAnon in here. What next, flat Earth?
Putin needs to be put down like the dog he is.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
Ukraine, Russia. I really couldn't care less which one of those despotic one party states wins their domestic squabble. What I find surprises me, is how many westerners have been sucked in to automatically supporting the Ukranian dictator, over the Russian dictator.
Ukraine, Russia. I really couldn't care less which one of those despotic one party states wins their domestic squabble. What I find surprises me, is how many westerners have been sucked in to automatically supporting the Ukranian dictator, over the Russian dictator.
Sorry, upvoted that by mistake. Completely disagree
You don't deal with the Russians by pussy footing about, look where that has lead. You hit them hard it's the only thing they understand. They love pravdo , fight fire with a bigger fire I say.
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Ukraine, Russia. I really couldn't care less which one of those despotic one party states wins their domestic squabble. What I find surprises me, is how many westerners have been sucked in to automatically supporting the Ukranian dictator, over the Russian dictator.
Wow.
That's the worst take I've read on any football forum. Well done, Bush. That's kind of impressive.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
Bang on. They don't give a stuff about Ukraine or Ukrainians, and they know full well that Russia poses no threat to us at all if left to sort out its issues with Ukraine itself. It's £billions of OUR hard earned they are spending to achieve nothing other than prolong the war and line the pockets of their weapons manufacturer mates, whilst at the same time saying that the country is skint (but not skint enough to spend £billions on weapons) and putting us all in grave danger. Absolutely shocking 😞
Just like Hitler posed no threat to us in 1939. I mean, if you read what he said/wrote from Mein Kampf onwards (1925), his whole objective was always to carve up Eastern Europe to provide "Lebensraum" (Living Room) for an expanded German Empire.
While the UK was just an inconvenient obstacle to the West, which he expected to buy off by giving us a free hand to expand our Empire over the seas, if we gave the Third Reich a free hand in continental Europe.
This explains why eg he never built up his Navy compared with his land and air forces; why he never actually launched an invasion of Britain; and why he split his forces and opened up a second front with the assault on the USSR in 1941 - he hoped/expected that the UK would "see sense" and sue for peace.
And as I type, it is being reported that Germany has now given its permission for Leopard tanks to be sent to Ukraine - about bloody time!
Just like Hitler posed no threat to us in 1939. I mean, if you read what he said/wrote from Mein Kampf onwards (1925), his whole objective was always to carve up Eastern Europe to provide "Lebensraum" (Living Room) for an expanded German Empire.
While the UK was just an inconvenient obstacle to the West, which he expected to buy off by giving us a free hand to expand our Empire over the seas, if we gave the Third Reich a free hand in continental Europe.
This explains why eg he never built up his Navy compared with his land and air forces; why he never actually launched an invasion of Britain; and why he split his forces and opened up a second front with the assault on the USSR in 1941 - he hoped/expected that the UK would "see sense" and sue for peace.
And as I type, it is being reported that Germany has now given its permission for Leopard tanks to be sent to Ukraine - about bloody time!
Slava Ukraini!
"And as I type, it is being reported that Germany has now given its permission for Leopard tanks to be sent to Ukraine - about bloody time!"
Horrendous news. Our politicians, and all those brainwashed by the media to support them, are going to get the whole world blown to bits. It's madness. Dialogue is the only solution, and that is what all politicians should be pushing for (not handing out weapons like confetti to support their arms dealer mates). Every time it looks like some kind of dialogue may break out, Boris Johnson turns up to scupper it. That says it all. Follow the money.....
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