| Marti got that one wrong 22:43 - Feb 14 with 8519 views | FDC |
Big fan of Marti, think the slender hope of staying up is largely down to him and the changes he's made.
But he got that wrong, didn't he? Looked like he set up to attack with pace on the break, using sinclair supported by three nippy little guys behind him.
It didn't really work, because of a combination of poor long ball distribution out of defence, sinclair poor decision making (offsides and poor attempts at buying free kicks), and EFL secret meeting agreeing to never award armstrong a decision.
You can see the thinking behind it, but looked a doomed plan from midway through first half.
Second half we were always going to be camping out trying to break them down, and felt like the subs that came would have been useful from half time. But he didn't change it up until 70 or so mins, and although Frey, Andersen, Willock felt like the correct subs, by that point we were really chasing the game it became madcap and disjointed
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| Marti got that one wrong on 12:56 - Feb 15 with 1271 views | QPRConor2000 |
| Marti got that one wrong on 12:07 - Feb 15 by dm97 |
He’s allowed to make mistakes as others on here have rightly said and explained. I do think we are slightly over hyping him right now. Don’t be me wrong definitely a huge positive for the club, but this idea that he definitely wont be here next season because he’s somehow above League 1 is overly pessimistic doom mongering imo. For a few reasons:
1. He’s not the messiah he’s just a very Marti boy - he’s doing a good job, but that is all it is; good. If we go down he will have been in charge for majority of the games. Not his fault sure, but I don’t think a middling champs club takes a punt on a relegated manager jsut because he’s better than GA (spoiler, most at this level are).
2. No one resigns in football, unless you’re named Jurgen, Pep, Sir Alex - he won’t walk away, because nobody walks away in football. JDT ‘offering to resign’ smells and looks like BS from a guy who wanted to be moved on, we ‘let Warbs’ contract run down’. Both were in reality sacked, the execs just had a PR guy smooth it over.
3. Clear out and rebuild - I know we’re damning about ourselves right now, but having a proper clear out and headroom to completely rebuild a pretty historic London club in league one is probably more attractive than we allow ourselves to think. Could it crash and burn? Yes absolutely. Would a lot of managers (including Marti) be attracted to that project and would it appeal to their egos to be the one to turn QPR around? Yes absolutely.
4. Previous - as stated elsewhere many times, he did this with Aalborg before getting the hamarby gig. Linked to above, what looks better for Marti? Leaving as the guy who took qpr down (whether true or not, it’ll be seen as his relegation as much as GA from the outside) or the guy who brought us back and rebuilt (go with me for the thought experiment).
5. Finally, pride and decency - maybe I’m romantic here but I think he’s fundamentally a good bloke. He doesn’t strike me as a Beale, queue him leaving Oct 2024 and me eating my words, and he feels like someone who has pride - a hell of a lot more than this crop - in his work.
Bit of a tangent to OP but had to get this off my chest after reading a few things here and on Twitter (aka X) [Post edited 15 Feb 12:08]
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I dont see Marti moving on ether if we go down, I dont get this theory that Marti will go in the summer if we go down, why would he forfeit a compensation package and why would he move his family over to London? That doesnt strike to me like someone whos walking.
He will want a summer regardless of what level we are at to build this squad, theres a lot of players leaving this summer so there will be the funds to improve the squad. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 13:01 - Feb 15 with 1252 views | R_from_afar |
| Marti got that one wrong on 22:46 - Feb 14 by Lblock |
I really like the fella but lets face it - he's a Championship novice and learning on the job just like the rest of the management at the club.
Shame that I don't think he'll stick around next season and some other club like WBA will benefit from our teeth cutting |
"...he's a Championship novice"
Marti may be but his assistant, Xavier Calm, is not. He was at Birmingham City for a while. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 13:34 - Feb 15 with 1206 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Marti got that one wrong on 07:56 - Feb 15 by traininvain |
Let’s not rewrite history, Dunne and Dykes (and dare I say Field) have been p1ss poor all season and that’s why they’ve been dropped.
Armstrong up front has been a key part of our recent run of good form. Our defence has looked a lot more solid with Cook and JCS at its heart and Dunne on the bench. Frey scored on Saturday and looked a handful so again it’s not difficult to see why Cifuentes turned to him again last night.
It didn’t work last night but we were four unbeaten going into the game so it’s a bit strange to suggest that we lost because of not starting two players who were mainstays in our long losing runs earlier in the season. We’re in danger of talking ourselves into blaming another manager (a good one at that) when we should all know by this stage that it’s on the players who failed to turn up yet again to another six pointer.
For what it’s worth I would’ve started Dykes and Willock but I doubt it would’ve made a difference given the overall individual and team performance last night as most our players decided to play like a bunch of tarts. This is deck chairs on the titanic again and the sooner people realise the better, as we might avoid blaming a manager who’s done more than most to give us a chance of staying up this season. [Post edited 15 Feb 8:16]
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You've started off totally disagreeing with my post and ending up partly agreeing.
I have stated previously I believe Marti is making mistakes in must not lose games and last night was another example.
I get he is learning on the job but defending that corner last night with Cannon front post instead of Field (similar to Norwich's first goal) and JCS at the back post in front of Dykes is weakening the team and inviting poorer teams (Stoke, Millwall, Cardiff) etc to win cheap points without out-playing us.
I absolutely do not buy into the group think criticism + revisionism on the forum of late regards Field, Dunne + Dykes.
Cook + JCS were statuesque for that corner last night but that starting XI was always coming 2nd best at corners + set-pieces.
If only we had one player who could take a half-dozen corner or set-piece as theirs last night. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 13:45 - Feb 15 with 1171 views | MedwayR |
I still think we need 2 strikers (if we can call them that) on the pitch to have any goal threat. Dykes and Armstrong should both be starting with Frey off the bench.
I'd also consider 3 at the back given how ineffective Paal and Cannon currently are. |  |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 13:48 - Feb 15 with 1160 views | TheChef |
| Marti got that one wrong on 13:34 - Feb 15 by ParkRoyalR |
You've started off totally disagreeing with my post and ending up partly agreeing.
I have stated previously I believe Marti is making mistakes in must not lose games and last night was another example.
I get he is learning on the job but defending that corner last night with Cannon front post instead of Field (similar to Norwich's first goal) and JCS at the back post in front of Dykes is weakening the team and inviting poorer teams (Stoke, Millwall, Cardiff) etc to win cheap points without out-playing us.
I absolutely do not buy into the group think criticism + revisionism on the forum of late regards Field, Dunne + Dykes.
Cook + JCS were statuesque for that corner last night but that starting XI was always coming 2nd best at corners + set-pieces.
If only we had one player who could take a half-dozen corner or set-piece as theirs last night. |
From a physical battle perspective then definitely Field, and possibly Dykes, should have started last night.
Clear though that Smyth is best as an impact sub. |  |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 14:05 - Feb 15 with 1070 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti got that one wrong on 11:38 - Feb 15 by lassel |
I really thought that after last night the lightbulb would flicker on for some people about what Marti has been saying since he arrived here.
When he said he wants his players to be ‘brave’ he doesn’t mean he wants them wrestling with lions, he means that when Chair gets it on the break he wants him to have a go at his full back, not stand on the ball, do a step over and pass it back into Colback.
He wants Paal to not hide like a fcking ghost behind his man whenever Begovic has the ball, he wants Colback/Hayden/Hodge to be busting a gut to get up and support Armstrong.
He spends most of our games prowling the sidelines shouting at the players to be on the front foot. He actively hates most of these players and it shows.
The one thing that I agree is baffling is the meek acceptance of Paal poncing around like he’s fcking Beckenbauer taking all the throw ins, all the set pieces when he cannot cross a ball.
But then at the same time we have senior players here - Begovic, Hayden, Cook, Colback they’ve all played with quality players and are well paid to be leaders yet they all seemingly go along with this bullshit production, plodding up for corners and free kicks that they know full well won’t pass the first man and none of them are in Paals ear telling him to cut it out and let someone take one who can cross a ball…
No responsibility, no desire, no fcking clues in this team of losers. |
If you're right and the manager actively 'hates' some of the players (despite saying the opposite . . . oh, sorry, this is football!), we're really holed below the water line. Fairly basic point, but the manager's job is the antithesis - to coach/develop/cultivate them and get them playing as he wants. Either Cifuentes is failing to transmit his messages effectively, or the player's can't/won't listen, or both.
For what little it's worth, I'd say it's both - the squad is teeth-peelingly inconsistent, and Marti is learning (slowly) on the job - but I'm not sure of the ratios, and none of us are. [Post edited 15 Feb 14:11]
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| Marti got that one wrong on 14:06 - Feb 15 with 1090 views | Northernr |
Once again I feel it my duty to tell you there isn't a winning team here for want of a manager picking it in a slightly different formation, shape, system etc. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:10 - Feb 15 with 1050 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti got that one wrong on 13:45 - Feb 15 by MedwayR |
I still think we need 2 strikers (if we can call them that) on the pitch to have any goal threat. Dykes and Armstrong should both be starting with Frey off the bench.
I'd also consider 3 at the back given how ineffective Paal and Cannon currently are. |
I agree, but unfortunately it can't be those two! Using 'goal threat' in conjunction with SA is laughable right now - he's got 50 apps for us under his belt, and, what, 3 goals? He's a winger, not a centre forward, and if we had an authentic version of the latter for the first time since 1485, perhaps he could be. Meanwhile, Dykes has scored about 5 goals in a year, it feels like (a statto can verify - I haven't the energy to check today), doesn't rough up defenders, usually needs the ball on a plate, and everything else we know about him makes the heart sink.
It's desperate, isn't it? [Post edited 15 Feb 14:12]
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| Marti got that one wrong on 14:22 - Feb 15 with 1041 views | daveB |
I'm still not sure what the manager did wrong last night but seen quite a few blaming him for the defeat
Team was pretty much same as the weekend with Smyth in for Willock which I think most of us would have done, players just didn't perform on the night and went to sleep at a corner again |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:27 - Feb 15 with 1020 views | rbee |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:06 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Once again I feel it my duty to tell you there isn't a winning team here for want of a manager picking it in a slightly different formation, shape, system etc. |
Which includes sneaking a 12th player on to the pitch.
There is a team in there that is capable of picking up more points than we currently are but for me, as you know, the mentality is all wrong.
Last night required a high press, high tempo from the start but we got Reggie fannying around with throw in's whilst Chair and Paal discussed their Saturday night plans before taking, a poor, free kick. Played right in to Stoke's hands. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:31 - Feb 15 with 1007 views | lassel |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:05 - Feb 15 by stainrods_elbow |
If you're right and the manager actively 'hates' some of the players (despite saying the opposite . . . oh, sorry, this is football!), we're really holed below the water line. Fairly basic point, but the manager's job is the antithesis - to coach/develop/cultivate them and get them playing as he wants. Either Cifuentes is failing to transmit his messages effectively, or the player's can't/won't listen, or both.
For what little it's worth, I'd say it's both - the squad is teeth-peelingly inconsistent, and Marti is learning (slowly) on the job - but I'm not sure of the ratios, and none of us are. [Post edited 15 Feb 14:11]
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I mean I don’t mean to be a cnt so I apologise in advance if it comes across that way but if you think the plan was for JCS to be thumping it long to Armstrong at every opportunity then you need to give your head a wobble. Marti can tell them whatever he wants but he cannot physically do it for them.
I constantly come back to Paal as the issue that I don’t think people pick up on enough - he played CM in Holland and 3 consecutive managers have said they see him as an auxiliary CM. The guy should be proactively looking to come inside and add an additional man when we have the ball and letting the ‘10’ get up and support the lone striker but instead he’s glued to the sideline, hidden behind his man and whenever the ball goes in his direction his instinct is just to go backwards with it. The guys an utter coward. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:36 - Feb 15 with 987 views | Northernr |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:22 - Feb 15 by daveB |
I'm still not sure what the manager did wrong last night but seen quite a few blaming him for the defeat
Team was pretty much same as the weekend with Smyth in for Willock which I think most of us would have done, players just didn't perform on the night and went to sleep at a corner again |
100% agree. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:42 - Feb 15 with 966 views | rbee |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:22 - Feb 15 by daveB |
I'm still not sure what the manager did wrong last night but seen quite a few blaming him for the defeat
Team was pretty much same as the weekend with Smyth in for Willock which I think most of us would have done, players just didn't perform on the night and went to sleep at a corner again |
I don't blame the manager for his team selection or tactics, whatever they were.
I blame him for not sending his players out fired up and ready to take the game to Stoke at a high tempo. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:48 - Feb 15 with 943 views | Northernr |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:42 - Feb 15 by rbee |
I don't blame the manager for his team selection or tactics, whatever they were.
I blame him for not sending his players out fired up and ready to take the game to Stoke at a high tempo. |
Why is that his fault and not theirs? These players have been letting you down consistently for two years. Would it all have been ok if only Warbs, Beale, Critchley, Ainsworth and Cifuentes could have got them fired up a bit more?
I feel sorry for him. They play ok for three or four games. We get a system that seems to suit. We put some results on the board. He picks basically the team last night I think the majority of fans would pick. If they played as they played against Norwich they'd have won. And they phone that in. How do you manage that? | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:51 - Feb 15 with 927 views | Hunterhoop |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:42 - Feb 15 by rbee |
I don't blame the manager for his team selection or tactics, whatever they were.
I blame him for not sending his players out fired up and ready to take the game to Stoke at a high tempo. |
I think the point is, rbee, the bulk of this team don’t care enough to be fired up. Most of them are in it for themselves, looking after number 1, trying to avoid blame, and playing for themselves.
How many managers think this team lacks bollocks and bravery? 3 in a row now. We’ve changed the loanees in that time, so perhaps let’s start looking at those those who start every week.
The system and personnel was not the issue last night. We had ample ball in their half, in space, with men in support. We created nothing because execution and decisions making was absymal.
That rested entirely with the guys who should be creating chances for others: Paal, Cannon, Chair, Smyth, Willock, and, at the end, Anderson. The latter is clearly not match fit yet, so has an excuse. Smyth tries hard but is making a big step up of two divisions. The others have no excuse for their performance. It was sh*t and it was on them last night.
Stop giving the players a free pass. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:14 - Feb 15 with 888 views | rbee |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:48 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Why is that his fault and not theirs? These players have been letting you down consistently for two years. Would it all have been ok if only Warbs, Beale, Critchley, Ainsworth and Cifuentes could have got them fired up a bit more?
I feel sorry for him. They play ok for three or four games. We get a system that seems to suit. We put some results on the board. He picks basically the team last night I think the majority of fans would pick. If they played as they played against Norwich they'd have won. And they phone that in. How do you manage that? |
I like Marti, I really do, and actaully look forward to games since his arrival.
Our players were not fired up when they started last night and the tactics did not include a high press, high tempo game to put Stoke under pressure. That is down to Marti.
Marti cannot influence matters on the pitch so of course the players are also to blame, as previously discussed where were the leaders telling Reggie, Chair and Paal to get on with the game.
If we had lost to Norwich on Saturday then the majority of fans would have taken a pragmatic view that we were beaten by a better team but as least we gave it a good go. Last night we were not beaten by a better team and we didn't even begin to give it a go.
You say ''These players have been letting you down consistently for two years.'' I understand whet you mean, starting with the slide down the table under Warburton.
But if you look at the 6-1 defeat to Blackpool nearly a year ago there was not one single player that started in that game that started last night, not a single one. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:27 - Feb 15 with 867 views | charmr |
Leave the guy alone please. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 with 863 views | Northernr |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:14 - Feb 15 by rbee |
I like Marti, I really do, and actaully look forward to games since his arrival.
Our players were not fired up when they started last night and the tactics did not include a high press, high tempo game to put Stoke under pressure. That is down to Marti.
Marti cannot influence matters on the pitch so of course the players are also to blame, as previously discussed where were the leaders telling Reggie, Chair and Paal to get on with the game.
If we had lost to Norwich on Saturday then the majority of fans would have taken a pragmatic view that we were beaten by a better team but as least we gave it a good go. Last night we were not beaten by a better team and we didn't even begin to give it a go.
You say ''These players have been letting you down consistently for two years.'' I understand whet you mean, starting with the slide down the table under Warburton.
But if you look at the 6-1 defeat to Blackpool nearly a year ago there was not one single player that started in that game that started last night, not a single one. |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:36 - Feb 15 with 843 views | rbee |
The Billion Dollar question Clive but you know maybe there isn't an obvious answer.
The turnover of players, the turnover of managers and even the sparkling new state of the art training facility have failed to stop our clubs downward spiral. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:46 - Feb 15 with 811 views | LazyFan |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... |
Didn't Dickie get POTY for us? But now moved on.
Dozy missed two strikes before the ball came back to him, and then on the third time he just stuck out a leg to score a goal that nearly went wide. This was not his pile driver at Boro goal. Dozy does not get up and down the pitch enough, he is no loss.
Dickie looked good against Saints, but I also noticed 1:1 he was sometimes in trouble. So, he's a decent player but I still think JCS or Cook are better. We also had the corner problem when Dickie was around.
I agreed with Marti's selection as Willock did not run back enough in Norwich, but we can see that Stoke feared Willock more than Smyth. So, hopefully, Marti has learned against a slow or constant out-of-position fullback like Manning, play Smyth. For smarter ones or with pace or both, play Willock or Anderson. And they all need to learn how to pass to Armstrong properly. And he needs to relearn to stay onside, he was offside too many times again yesterday.
For corners, it's simple, everyone should expect the oppo to either win the first ball or do something clever to trick us and score. If everyone expects this and grapples hard with their man, jumps the highest they can, goes in rough (but not enough for a pen) and barges their man around a lot without fouling then we may stand a chance of not conceding. Every player should expect it to be rough as every team now knows it's a major weakness of ours and will be using it all the time. No need to cross, just whack it off Paal for the corner. We have to be very aggressive for every corner and very mean to the oppo without blatant fouling.
These small things mean you come under constant pressure and lose the game. |  |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 15:51 - Feb 15 with 784 views | BAWHoops |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:06 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Once again I feel it my duty to tell you there isn't a winning team here for want of a manager picking it in a slightly different formation, shape, system etc. |
Not 'blaming' him per se, but felt the approach (hit it long for Armstrong to chase) was wrong as was pitting little Joe Hodge against Woutter Berger for his 3rd ever professional start.
Bit of hindsight talking, but expected a bit more from Marti considering he had a few options available to him to try and sort the problem |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 16:00 - Feb 15 with 759 views | Harbour |
Is the downing of tools down to three game weeks. Time and time again we see bad runs coincide with three game weeks. No excuses the players should be fit and be able to perform consistently three times a week. The other consistent bad performance is when we have a critical game …Huddersfield Plymouth Stoke as soon as a sniff of getting out of the bottom 3 the players produce a shit performance. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:05 - Feb 15 with 752 views | robith |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:42 - Feb 15 by rbee |
I don't blame the manager for his team selection or tactics, whatever they were.
I blame him for not sending his players out fired up and ready to take the game to Stoke at a high tempo. |
These dossers have done 4 managers in now. Call a spade a spade. Maximum effort is the minimum requirement and this is their bloody job. They shouldn't need a manager to get them to full exertion |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:11 - Feb 15 with 716 views | rbee |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:05 - Feb 15 by robith |
These dossers have done 4 managers in now. Call a spade a spade. Maximum effort is the minimum requirement and this is their bloody job. They shouldn't need a manager to get them to full exertion |
Read above, it's not the same dossers at all.
You are however right in what you say although a manager still influences the mood as the players leave the dressing room. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:18 - Feb 15 with 684 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Marti got that one wrong on 11:38 - Feb 15 by lassel |
I really thought that after last night the lightbulb would flicker on for some people about what Marti has been saying since he arrived here.
When he said he wants his players to be ‘brave’ he doesn’t mean he wants them wrestling with lions, he means that when Chair gets it on the break he wants him to have a go at his full back, not stand on the ball, do a step over and pass it back into Colback.
He wants Paal to not hide like a fcking ghost behind his man whenever Begovic has the ball, he wants Colback/Hayden/Hodge to be busting a gut to get up and support Armstrong.
He spends most of our games prowling the sidelines shouting at the players to be on the front foot. He actively hates most of these players and it shows.
The one thing that I agree is baffling is the meek acceptance of Paal poncing around like he’s fcking Beckenbauer taking all the throw ins, all the set pieces when he cannot cross a ball.
But then at the same time we have senior players here - Begovic, Hayden, Cook, Colback they’ve all played with quality players and are well paid to be leaders yet they all seemingly go along with this bullshit production, plodding up for corners and free kicks that they know full well won’t pass the first man and none of them are in Paals ear telling him to cut it out and let someone take one who can cross a ball…
No responsibility, no desire, no fcking clues in this team of losers. |
That's down to the manager. He's the one that creates the game plan, and he has proven he can create a good plan, so whatever he planned for last nights game was every big as poor as the players. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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