| Ashes thread 18:40 - Oct 9 with 68199 views | BlackCrowe |
Kicks off next month with the news that Cummins is likely out of the first test and possibly most/all of the series. That helps. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 15:43 - Dec 19 with 1152 views | Pindarus |
The entire squad selection was faulty.
Entire top 6 written in with no alternative except Bethell who had never scored a century and looked totally out of depth in his solitary game.
No wicket keeper or reserve. Compare Carey with Smith - laughable.
At least 2 pace bowlers not up to standard, and one who is a walking hospital case.
No spinner to tie down one end. Jacks - I ask you!
A totally arrogant and blinkered approach with no plan B.
I hope Stokes stays for another year because Brook is no way captaincy material.
Mccullum and Key to go immediately, or at least at the end of the Ashes. At least 6 of this squad to be jettisoned.
A complete rebuild of the Australian team is in prospect so hopefully the next generation will not be all powerful, but I wouldn't bank on it. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 15:56 - Dec 19 with 1130 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 15:43 - Dec 19 by Pindarus |
The entire squad selection was faulty.
Entire top 6 written in with no alternative except Bethell who had never scored a century and looked totally out of depth in his solitary game.
No wicket keeper or reserve. Compare Carey with Smith - laughable.
At least 2 pace bowlers not up to standard, and one who is a walking hospital case.
No spinner to tie down one end. Jacks - I ask you!
A totally arrogant and blinkered approach with no plan B.
I hope Stokes stays for another year because Brook is no way captaincy material.
Mccullum and Key to go immediately, or at least at the end of the Ashes. At least 6 of this squad to be jettisoned.
A complete rebuild of the Australian team is in prospect so hopefully the next generation will not be all powerful, but I wouldn't bank on it. |
All valid points.
I'd prefer Stokes to stay on as captain because I can't see any viable alternative (and definitely NOT Brook), but he may stand down anyway. |  |
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| Ashes thread (n/t) on 16:12 - Dec 19 with 1105 views | easthertsr |
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| Ashes thread on 16:23 - Dec 19 with 1081 views | daveB |
It's been a painful watch, going with a part time spinner and a part time wicket keeper was a bit mad. What was the point of playing Bashir for 3 years then ignoring him |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 22:37 - Dec 19 with 980 views | eastside_r |
| Ashes thread on 16:23 - Dec 19 by daveB |
It's been a painful watch, going with a part time spinner and a part time wicket keeper was a bit mad. What was the point of playing Bashir for 3 years then ignoring him |
It’s been an absolute sh*tshow that they’ll be talking about for decades. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 23:08 - Dec 19 with 957 views | stowmarketrange |
I’m just watching New Zealand v West Indies at the bay oval.Its the Saturday of a test match and there’s hardly anyone there.
When I went there for the England test in 2023 it was packed out. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 23:15 - Dec 19 with 948 views | numptydumpty |
Clearly the squad choice was strange.
Am a Surrey fan, but the choices of Jacks and Smith was odd for me. They are both excellent one day and t20 players, but building an innings have not seen that before.
The incident when Carey ran out Bairstow for wandering out of his crease - Johnny said to Carey, thats all you will be known for. Not great sledging in hindsight, but for me, there is a case to bring back Bairstow as a wicketkeeper batsmen option. Yes one of the Rew brothers could step up, but feel bit too early.
Englands second innings will be interesting.
Will it be five sessions to survive. So there is no real reason to play bazball.
Its the last chance saloon for a while for some batsmen and if Crawley, Pope and maybe one or two others play a stubborn, long and battling innings in true test style, it could be a catalyst for a future in test cricket. I cant though see it happening.
The game could be over today.
Their bowlers are too good in Australia, even the back up bowlers too. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 01:34 - Dec 20 with 906 views | numptydumpty |
| Ashes thread on 23:15 - Dec 19 by numptydumpty |
Clearly the squad choice was strange.
Am a Surrey fan, but the choices of Jacks and Smith was odd for me. They are both excellent one day and t20 players, but building an innings have not seen that before.
The incident when Carey ran out Bairstow for wandering out of his crease - Johnny said to Carey, thats all you will be known for. Not great sledging in hindsight, but for me, there is a case to bring back Bairstow as a wicketkeeper batsmen option. Yes one of the Rew brothers could step up, but feel bit too early.
Englands second innings will be interesting.
Will it be five sessions to survive. So there is no real reason to play bazball.
Its the last chance saloon for a while for some batsmen and if Crawley, Pope and maybe one or two others play a stubborn, long and battling innings in true test style, it could be a catalyst for a future in test cricket. I cant though see it happening.
The game could be over today.
Their bowlers are too good in Australia, even the back up bowlers too. |
Crikey.
Its got to be said also Duckett has been appalling also.
The man that never leaves a single ball. | |
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| Ashes thread on 05:11 - Dec 20 with 858 views | Rsole |
Who is this imposter posing as a test match batsmen and what have you done with Zak Crawley ?
Are you the same people that made Travis Head look good with bat and ball ? |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 05:58 - Dec 20 with 835 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes thread on 05:11 - Dec 20 by Rsole |
Who is this imposter posing as a test match batsmen and what have you done with Zak Crawley ?
Are you the same people that made Travis Head look good with bat and ball ? |
I want to get up and watch it on tv but I know what’ll happen if I do.
It happened.Brook out while the kettle was boiling.
And now two more wickets before I’ve even finished my tea. [Post edited 20 Dec 6:32]
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| Ashes thread on 06:13 - Dec 20 with 822 views | JamesB1979 |
The batting is getting a lot of criticism but Brook and Root average over 50 in test cricket. And Stokes is the captain, so that’s 3 of your 6. Duckett has been terrible in this series but he had been excellent before then. There was no talk about dropping him. Crawley and Pope were the big question marks. The issue is the bowling. No spinner since Swann. Archer is the pick and he’s been out for 2 years. The others are so inconsistent. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 08:36 - Dec 20 with 744 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 05:58 - Dec 20 by stowmarketrange |
I want to get up and watch it on tv but I know what’ll happen if I do.
It happened.Brook out while the kettle was boiling.
And now two more wickets before I’ve even finished my tea. [Post edited 20 Dec 6:32]
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‘Was I bowled ?’
Brook to the Ump. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 08:46 - Dec 20 with 730 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 06:13 - Dec 20 by JamesB1979 |
The batting is getting a lot of criticism but Brook and Root average over 50 in test cricket. And Stokes is the captain, so that’s 3 of your 6. Duckett has been terrible in this series but he had been excellent before then. There was no talk about dropping him. Crawley and Pope were the big question marks. The issue is the bowling. No spinner since Swann. Archer is the pick and he’s been out for 2 years. The others are so inconsistent. |
Well our best innings so far was just over 300 and this is the only time we’ve taken 20 wickets. Just Root’s one off ton to celebrate.
Prior to this test, we only managed 12 wickets each game. All round underperformance and stupid decision making - have we even won 2 sessions in a row in a test yet ? Maybe one day in 3 tests.
Australia have been much better balanced with Cummins and Lyon. Imagine if they’d played full roles previously. They will kill us at The G. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 10:12 - Dec 20 with 681 views | CamberleyR |
I've just read that Pope averages 17.62 in 16 Ashes innings. The only person to have played as many innings with a lower average is Dennis Amiss. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 10:13 - Dec 20 with 681 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes thread on 12:44 - Dec 19 by CamberleyR |
Yes Leach is no massive spinner of the ball and is never going to regularly spin teams out but I'm fairly sure he would have been able to tie an end down (unlike Jacks), put some pressure on their batsmen with a few maidens and try and let Stokes rest and rotate the pace bowlers properly like Cummins has been able to do with Lyon.
His economy rate in tests is a fag paper over 3 (3.08) and he has five five fors in 39 tests. As a comparison his strike rate in tests is not that much worse than Lyon's (61.4 Lyon, 66.2 Leach)
Would he really not have been the worst option at least to have in the squad? [Post edited 19 Dec 14:35]
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Good points but I wanted to add that, while obviously helpful, massive spin is not the be all and end all for spinners. A top class spinner will have lots of other weapons in their armoury, like change of pace, arm balls, deliveries which turn the other way, flight and bowling to specially positioned fielders. Bishan Bedi was renowned for luring batters into shots straight to fielders, for example.
I think the key issue is simply that Australia are currently better than England in every single department. Terrifying thought: Imagine the England side without Stokes, Root and Archer: They are our only truly world class players. Take those three out - shudder - and we'll be struggling to beat Zimbabwe and the like (no offence intended).
England does need a spin task force, though, we've neglected and mishandled that department for decades. We're missing a trick. Some batters hate facing spin, you have to put all the pace on the ball to get runs, you can get stuck on the crease or do the opposite and put yourself at risk of being stumped, or you can just lose all discipline and start trying to slog the wrong balls.
The England test set-up seems to tolerate a revolving door of substandard seamers but spinners get short shrift. Everyone expected Adelaide to be a turning wicket, Australia duly picked Lyon, but we knew better. I'm not saying having a front line spinner would've saved this test, mind.
If I could ask the England coaches and board a few searching questions, the second or third one would be: "How and when are we ever - ever - going to have another world class spinner? The rate we are going, we never will, unless an England supporting mad scientist manages to get his hands on Wilfred Rhodes' and Graeme Swann's DNA  . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ashes thread on 10:28 - Dec 20 with 659 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 10:13 - Dec 20 by R_from_afar |
Good points but I wanted to add that, while obviously helpful, massive spin is not the be all and end all for spinners. A top class spinner will have lots of other weapons in their armoury, like change of pace, arm balls, deliveries which turn the other way, flight and bowling to specially positioned fielders. Bishan Bedi was renowned for luring batters into shots straight to fielders, for example.
I think the key issue is simply that Australia are currently better than England in every single department. Terrifying thought: Imagine the England side without Stokes, Root and Archer: They are our only truly world class players. Take those three out - shudder - and we'll be struggling to beat Zimbabwe and the like (no offence intended).
England does need a spin task force, though, we've neglected and mishandled that department for decades. We're missing a trick. Some batters hate facing spin, you have to put all the pace on the ball to get runs, you can get stuck on the crease or do the opposite and put yourself at risk of being stumped, or you can just lose all discipline and start trying to slog the wrong balls.
The England test set-up seems to tolerate a revolving door of substandard seamers but spinners get short shrift. Everyone expected Adelaide to be a turning wicket, Australia duly picked Lyon, but we knew better. I'm not saying having a front line spinner would've saved this test, mind.
If I could ask the England coaches and board a few searching questions, the second or third one would be: "How and when are we ever - ever - going to have another world class spinner? The rate we are going, we never will, unless an England supporting mad scientist manages to get his hands on Wilfred Rhodes' and Graeme Swann's DNA . |
Good post. The real shame is that we've finally got a captain who knows how to handle spinners. The support he gave Leach in the field was brilliant, as when we toured Pakistan.
I do have hopes for the Ahmed brothers, I haven't seen much of the younger version but apparently he is really promising?
I hope we don't consign Rehan to the one-day only bracket like Adil. Let's give him a serious lengthy go just like we have backed the batters for years. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 10:29 - Dec 20 with 657 views | JamesB1979 |
| Ashes thread on 10:13 - Dec 20 by R_from_afar |
Good points but I wanted to add that, while obviously helpful, massive spin is not the be all and end all for spinners. A top class spinner will have lots of other weapons in their armoury, like change of pace, arm balls, deliveries which turn the other way, flight and bowling to specially positioned fielders. Bishan Bedi was renowned for luring batters into shots straight to fielders, for example.
I think the key issue is simply that Australia are currently better than England in every single department. Terrifying thought: Imagine the England side without Stokes, Root and Archer: They are our only truly world class players. Take those three out - shudder - and we'll be struggling to beat Zimbabwe and the like (no offence intended).
England does need a spin task force, though, we've neglected and mishandled that department for decades. We're missing a trick. Some batters hate facing spin, you have to put all the pace on the ball to get runs, you can get stuck on the crease or do the opposite and put yourself at risk of being stumped, or you can just lose all discipline and start trying to slog the wrong balls.
The England test set-up seems to tolerate a revolving door of substandard seamers but spinners get short shrift. Everyone expected Adelaide to be a turning wicket, Australia duly picked Lyon, but we knew better. I'm not saying having a front line spinner would've saved this test, mind.
If I could ask the England coaches and board a few searching questions, the second or third one would be: "How and when are we ever - ever - going to have another world class spinner? The rate we are going, we never will, unless an England supporting mad scientist manages to get his hands on Wilfred Rhodes' and Graeme Swann's DNA . |
Brook averages over 50. He’s also looked good but he then plays a ridiculous shot. He has to stay in the side. I don’t think there are quite so many good replacements as people think earlier in an earlier post. Haines for Sussex was bang average most of last season. Is he better than Duckett and Crawley? We need to find a replacement for Pope at 3. Maybe get Brook in there and a player like Coles or Bethel in after Root.
On the spinners, they just need to pick the best one out there. Reward a guy that does the best in county cricket….not someone with potential to learn on the job.
As for the quicks, we badly missed Robinson who can bowl load of overs and keep it tight. I know the setup don’t like him now but they should be selected to win matches nothing else. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:08 - Dec 20 with 612 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes thread on 10:29 - Dec 20 by JamesB1979 |
Brook averages over 50. He’s also looked good but he then plays a ridiculous shot. He has to stay in the side. I don’t think there are quite so many good replacements as people think earlier in an earlier post. Haines for Sussex was bang average most of last season. Is he better than Duckett and Crawley? We need to find a replacement for Pope at 3. Maybe get Brook in there and a player like Coles or Bethel in after Root.
On the spinners, they just need to pick the best one out there. Reward a guy that does the best in county cricket….not someone with potential to learn on the job.
As for the quicks, we badly missed Robinson who can bowl load of overs and keep it tight. I know the setup don’t like him now but they should be selected to win matches nothing else. |
Good points, although whilst I wouldn't drop Brook, I wouldn't say he is world class just yet.
I do think England batted more sensibly in this test but the series was already very close to being lost, plus, while helpful, that change still doesn't make us truly competitive with this Australian side. Whoever we picked, I think that would still have been the case, sadly.
Perhaps we are trying to be too clever, one of the pundits said that last night. A lot of the fundamentals of the game don't change. As I said above, though, I thought I saw signs of a more measured approach in this test. | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ashes thread on 12:00 - Dec 20 with 580 views | Hooparoo |
For what it’s worth, most Aussies are surprised it hasn’t been closer. I know I am 🤔 |  |
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| Ashes thread on 03:36 - Dec 21 with 465 views | numptydumpty |
| Ashes thread on 12:00 - Dec 20 by Hooparoo |
For what it’s worth, most Aussies are surprised it hasn’t been closer. I know I am 🤔 |
Probably Head and Careys batting and Australia having several seamers that can do well, whereas Englands only class seamer is Jofra. [Post edited 21 Dec 3:36]
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| Ashes thread on 03:50 - Dec 21 with 456 views | Nov77 |
Stayed up hoping for a miracle. The tail wagged a bit, carse, jacks and smith scored more combined than Crawley, Duckett. Pope and Root did. No heroics from archer this time,
82 run defeat. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 06:42 - Dec 21 with 385 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 03:50 - Dec 21 by Nov77 |
Stayed up hoping for a miracle. The tail wagged a bit, carse, jacks and smith scored more combined than Crawley, Duckett. Pope and Root did. No heroics from archer this time,
82 run defeat. |
Closer than expected.
Maybe another 4;1 if we can get them to give away a penalty… | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 08:11 - Dec 21 with 289 views | plasmahoop |
Whilst we don't have a top class spinner in England, one of the main functions of a spinner in international cricket is to hold an end up. I think any county spinner would have been a better option than throwing jacks to the wolves | | | |
| Ashes thread on 09:35 - Dec 21 with 232 views | Malintabuk |
Yes the inevitable defeat and capitulation in Australia yet again
Agree with all the above, but for me the blame lies squarely with the ECB... and this absolutely abomination of "the 100"
How are we expected to produce spinners when we are not playing 1st class cricket in August? Spinners can not operate in May or September...
Preparation, tactics, personnel have all been lacking, and if I was to be honest so was professionalism. Perhaps the management team know we are sub standard in many departments, and try to hide it with the baz ball approach.... apart from Stokes Root and Archer, would any of the other 8 walk into a decent test team, doubtful.
The bottom line really is test cricket as important to the ECB as it is to us, and really apart from the ashes, is it really important to the majority of English cricket fans?
Yes we get decent attendance for most test series, but is there the passion from English supporters for us against Sri Lanka as there is us v the Aussies?
Think there is going to have to be a serious discussion about test cricket and its future by the ECB, who for me think it is behind other formats for them.
I love my test cricket, but I wonder if the powers to be feel the same. | | | |
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